Will the real Mo Salah please stand up?

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

If you're a defender playing in the premier league and you don't study your opponent well in advance to prevent him beating you time and again, then you're quite the useless player imo. Fortunately for us, there's quite a number of players like these out there. Some never learn at all.

But you're also right, that's not the only the factor obviously. It's also down to Salah's form, however, with the exception of his shooting boots, i fail to see how Salah could have played any better in his last 10 games for instance. He's still making those familiar runs, occupying the right spaces and reading the game pretty well. He's just missing that extra 5% of magic. It'll come when Nunez and the first 11 return to form, fitness and match sharpness, so i wouldnt worry much. But yes, it's been infuriating at times watching him scuff and miss those easy chances.

 

[Irishanfield]

Salahs game is about running into space, isolating a defender 1v1 and taking them on. He's not a 6 yard box poacher.

If we keep giving teams a 1 goal headstart so they can sit deep and defend a lead with 11 men then we really aren't going to get much out of him.
Hes also becoming isolated by Trent wandering infield and leaving him 1v2 or 1v3 on the right hand side of the pitch.

So basically you are saying salah is only aany good after we take the lead because teams play thee same against us at 0-0 as they do at when they take the lead

 

[MomoWASright]

I don’t think he comes deep enough anymore to receive the ball and run at players. It feels like he stays in that high area on the shoulders looking for space or where’s its already congested.

 

[6TimesaRed]

I can't be arsed saying the same thing over and over again, but I said it was a mistake to sign him up again if we could have got a wodge for him. It's even dumber since we aren't willing to invest in the squad. All that said, he's been even worse than I had imagined. I thought a bit of a rest would see him get that little bit of pace back for a few games, but no. He will score more when we play better, and create loads of chances, and especially when Trent is on song, because that's what he's always been. He's not going to turn games when we are shit. He's mostly not a game changer. He's not some phenomenon. He's a shitter version of himself, and he's been on a team that was a giant fluffer for his ego. If he was better he could adapt and play centrally, but he isn't. We need every bit of his diminishing form, but don't fool yourself, it won't prove good value.

Problem was, we would have not got the wodge for him we were demanding in this current climate

It would have played out, weakening the fee, and put Salah and his agent in control

It was the right decision from a financial aspect to sign him up again

He got Two assists against Newcastle. He will come to form again.. Only a matter of time..

 

[MomoWASright]

How has it been the right decision? We’ve given him and his agent millions and continue to pay him £18-20 million a year.

Whilst it was technically an assist for the winner in Wednesday you really can’t call it one. He’s been shocking. His ball control isn’t where it once was. He had a summer off. He’s over 30. Doesn’t look at quick. It’s been like this for the whole of 2022. It’s a terrible decision.

 

[Mystic]

I've just got this feeling that Darwin coming up to speed and settling in is really going to complement Salah. We've seen flashes of it in the first few games, despite Darwin being clumsy and still finding his feet, having another physical presence seemed to help Salah, or at the very least make it more difficult for defenders to occupy Salah, I reckon this will only improve as Darwin comes up to speed and rediscovers his first touch.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

I was reading an article today somewhere, that said Mo's been playing quite the provider this season, in fact, he's top in the league atm.

If it's true we're changing our playing style, then i can't wait when Nunez returns. It'll be very interesting to see how this new re-jig pans out.

Kinda like how the likes of Barnes and Giggs changed their game in the 2nd half of their careers.

Salah can't continue bursting down the wings all season, so he might as well start learning to mix things up a bit, and judging by early numbers, he's not doing too bad is he, as a provider.

I think he's being re-calibrated and once the dust settles, hopefully we'll see a more lethal version of Mo.

 

[MomoWASright]

I do hope you’re right

 

[Hansern]

I was reading an article today somewhere, that said Mo's been playing quite the provider this season, in fact, he's top in the league atm.

If it's true we're changing our playing style, then i can't wait when Nunez returns. It'll be very interesting to see how this new re-jig pans out.

Kinda like how the likes of Barnes and Giggs changed their game in the 2nd half of their careers.

Salah can't continue bursting down the wings all season, so he might as well start learning to mix things up a bit, and judging by early numbers, he's not doing too bad is he, as a provider.

I think he's being re-calibrated and once the dust settles, hopefully we'll see a more lethal version of Mo.

Agreed.

Salah hasnt been terrible so far and certainly not shocking. We as a team havent been good but Salah has created more chances than any other player in the top 5 leagues in Europe this season, with 21.
Thats despite a new look attacking set up, injuries and a forced midfield reshuffle.
2 goals in the league isnt up to his usual standards after 5 games, but its only a matter of time before that is back to normal as he is getting the chances. His numbers are actually close to last years which indicates he'll bang at any moment.

I dont get the desperation by some to pick holes in the contract given or by what standard Salah is delivering.
It was a fucking torture on here about getting him to sign and when he finally does - its all about it was the wrong decision.

He's still a World class player and will deliver at the top end of the scale this season as well. He looks fresh, great touch, the smile is back and we're just waiting for it to click in front of goal. Which it will.

 

[Frogfish]

I've just got this feeling that Darwin coming up to speed and settling in is really going to complement Salah. We've seen flashes of it in the first few games, despite Darwin being clumsy and still finding his feet, having another physical presence seemed to help Salah, or at the very least make it more difficult for defenders to occupy Salah, I reckon this will only improve as Darwin comes up to speed and rediscovers his first touch.

This was shown to great effect against Newcastle. Burn was out to Salah, as he had no-one to mark in the centre, on numerous occasions because Firmino was so deep he was in midfield. Double teamed most of the match. This absolutely wouldn't have happened had Nunez been on the pitch so Mo would have had a lot more space and 1 on 1s not 2 vs 1.

 

[MomoWASright]

Agreed.

Salah hasnt been terrible so far and certainly not shocking. We as a team havent been good but Salah has created more chances than any other player in the top 5 leagues in Europe this season, with 21.
Thats despite a new look attacking set up, injuries and a forced midfield reshuffle.
2 goals in the league isnt up to his usual standards after 5 games, but its only a matter of time before that is back to normal as he is getting the chances. His numbers are actually close to last years which indicates he'll bang at any moment.

I dont get the desperation by some to pick holes in the contract given or by what standard Salah is delivering.
It was a fucking torture on here about getting him to sign and when he finally does - its all about it was the wrong decision.

He's still a World class player and will deliver at the top end of the scale this season as well. He looks fresh, great touch, the smile is back and we're just waiting for it to click in front of goal. Which it will.

I’m struggling to remember the 21 chances he’s created and would be interested in seeing those. Regarding his overall performances, has me made top 3 in 2 of the 5 games so far? I don’t think so.

The reason we (I mean me) are picking holes in his contract is because we are paying the top tier of wages and not seeing that level of output from him. He acted like a cunt through it (via his agent).

So far this year we’ve had the excuses of AFCON and the contract playing on his mind for his dip in form. Those do not wash anymore and we are still seeing the Mo from March/April.

 

[Red Bird]

I’ve also not been convinced by Salah— he’s not producing anything resembling what his wages would imply.

 

[Hansern]

I’m struggling to remember the 21 chances he’s created and would be interested in seeing those. Regarding his overall performances, has me made top 3 in 2 of the 5 games so far? I don’t think so.

The reason we (I mean me) are picking holes in his contract is because we are paying the top tier of wages and not seeing that level of output from him. He acted like a cunt through it (via his agent).

So far this year we’ve had the excuses of AFCON and the contract playing on his mind for his dip in form. Those do not wash anymore and we are still seeing the Mo from March/April.

Just check out the various sites that offer these stats and you'll find he's top.
Its been 5 games since he got the new contract, so the return of investment output is a bit shortsighted to say the least. The other option was to lose both him and Mane this summer which would have been horrendous.

 

[MomoWASright]

I’m interested in seeing the chances. I’m curious to see if they are proper chances.

Whilst a small sample, it’s the same as before the break. Which has been shite.

 

[Frogfish]

I’m interested in seeing the chances. I’m curious to see if they are proper chances.

Whilst a small sample, it’s the same as before the break. Which has been shite.

Whatever stats are out there it's the same for all players. Some will be 'real' chances, 'real' shots etc. whilst others will be dubious at best. But it's the same for all so if you lower Mo's by 20% for whatever reason then you'll need to lower everyone else's by 20% too. He's still top ... and it's not even close, he's miles ahead.

 

[MomoWASright]

That’s the problem with stats. It doesn’t really tell you what’s happening here. It’s subjective, like I said elsewhere about xG. It’s not so simple to reduce everyone’s by 20%, Silva playing it to Haaland on the 6 yard box for a tap isn’t the same as Mo pulling it back to Gomez at the edge of the area who shoots with 16 players in the box. So we can’t just cancel both out for averages.

That doesn’t really matter. I’m not interested in other players. I want to see the 21 chances Mo has created. I can’t think of them because we’ve largely been terrible.

 

[MomoWASright]

I’ve not found any compilations to watch. Which is a bummer. His xA, for what’s that worth, is 4.2ish.

 

[Farkmaster]

There's a reason there aren't compilations of his recent form.

 

[mark1975]

It's hard to say how his season will go. We were in exactly the same place this time last season with Mane, and he went on to prove everyone wrong about his immediate decline. I've no doubt Salah is on the wain a bit, but it's a bit early to be writing him off. He's also playing with a couple of new forwards in a system that's slightly new to us and with several injuries having effected us. It's a long season, let's hope he's on his way back. He was getting in dangerous positions a lot more against Newcastle.

 

[Squiggles]

I get the concern, but I'm surprised by severity of it. Salah is going to bounce back and score a shit load of goals and assists over the next 2 years. We might regret the contract on his final year, but by the point he'll have more than earned his wage packet.

He's never *really* been a player who will magic something out of nothing on a regular basis. He can do it, but generally speaking he needs the rest of the team to be clicking to make an impact and it's just not there ATM. That doesn't excuse some shoddy finishing recently, but I've got plenty of confidence he'll start delivering the goods again when the system is functioning as Klopp wishes.

Salah has a track record that demands some faith.

 

[King Binny]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

Whether you're concerned or think hes creating non-stop chances and playing well, what will it take to flip your position?

 

[Fabio]

I'm so close to taking him out my fantasy team

 

[tomasjj]

I ditched him a couple weeks ago.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

I'm so close to taking him out my fantasy team

Take him the fuck out now.
You're the reason!

 

[MomoWASright]

Whether you're concerned or think hes creating non-stop chances and playing well, what will it take to flip your position?

I’m concerned and him to start beating players and getting shots on target.

 

[rurikbird]

Janusz Michallik is one of the more insightful pundits when it comes to tactical issues and in this video he articulates what could be an inverse relationship between Trent's and Salah's level of involvement – i.e. Trent has been subbed early in an attempt to get Salah on the ball more as he was staying too wide (implication is that Trent's frequent underlapping runs forced him to do so) and having too few touches in the first half. After Milner came on, Salah got somewhat more involved, but we lost control and cohesion with too many changes at RB and midfield.

Here was Salah's heat map and Klopp's comments on the issue:


Some people on Twitter are having a go at Klopp for supposedly denying the existence of a problem that even the fans can see, but he did say that Salah was "sometimes" too wide in the first half; said that his tactical idea of Mo and Diaz on the other side "dropping in" the middle as the build-up progressed didn't happen "often enough." So looks like there is some truth to it and maybe Trent's unusually early sub was an attempt to get that original tactical plan executed (since Milner would do exactly as instructed), which unfortunately backfired. The search for rediscovering the right formula continues.

BTW that 4-2-3-1/4-2-2-2 system in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half looked promising, even if a bit off the cuff. Firmino playing at #10 behind Darwin was getting in useful positions to progress the ball and to win the ball back in midfield; the biggest problem was Salah again being quiet and also Trent stayed too far back to support attacks for some reason, so there was too much of a gap between the defensive line and attack. But perhaps this will be something to build upon.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

So summary - Salah’s dip in form is primarily down to tactics and formation, and the misuse of his skills. Which is somewhat true although not entirely.

 

[Frogfish]

Janusz Michallik is one of the more insightful pundits when it comes to tactical issues and in this video he articulates what could be an inverse relationship between Trent's and Salah's level of involvement – i.e. Trent has been subbed early in an attempt to get Salah on the ball more as he was staying too wide (implication is that Trent's frequent underlapping runs forced him to do so) and having too few touches in the first half. After Milner came on, Salah got somewhat more involved, but we lost control and cohesion with too many changes at RB and midfield.

Here was Salah's heat map and Klopp's comments on the issue:


Some people on Twitter are having a go at Klopp for supposedly denying the existence of a problem that even the fans can see, but he did say that Salah was "sometimes" too wide in the first half; said that his tactical idea of Mo and Diaz on the other side "dropping in" the middle as the build-up progressed didn't happen "often enough." So looks like there is some truth to it and maybe Trent's unusually early sub was an attempt to get that original tactical plan executed (since Milner would do exactly as instructed), which unfortunately backfired. The search for rediscovering the right formula continues.

BTW that 4-2-3-1/4-2-2-2 system in the first 15 minutes of the 2nd half looked promising, even if a bit off the cuff. Firmino playing at #10 behind Darwin was getting in useful positions to progress the ball and to win the ball back in midfield; the biggest problem was Salah again being quiet and also Trent stayed too far back to support attacks for some reason, so there was too much of a gap between the defensive line and attack. But perhaps this will be something to build upon.

A whole raft of stating the obvious from Janusz however he lost me when he said Trent has been our best player (I took this to mean this season) when he's been gash. And many on here have noted that Trent's new penchant for coming infield is having a negative effect on Salah.

Likewise comparing Mo's touches to Trent's (17 to 43 or 63 or whatever it was) before Trent went off, of course a defender is going to have a ton more touches that a forward ! Look at how many Haaland is getting at City for a perfect example (yes I accept he's positionally different to Mo but the point stands).

We were much better for a period in the first half when Trent, Elliott and Mo were playing in triangles further up the pitch. For whatever reason that stopped and we saw an immediate drop off.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

he's been post AFCON poor again in 45 minutes against Napoli.