What is Adam Lallana?

[mom]

Silky skills and can really hold the ball and keep possession well, but yep, not much end product at the moment. One of first names on he sheet for Klopp due to the ball retention and work rate I guess. Hopefully , end product is something Klopp can sort. Either that or he maybe needs a decent striker in front of him with an instinct for goal and who knows where to be and when. One who knows which runs are the right runs to make and when to make them would be of real help. We've got very little instinct for goal in the team, so players like lallana do all the fancy stuff, get to the box, and then either have to shoot (often poorly) or just pass it sideways as there's nobody available for the killer run or finish.

 

[dmishra]

Its almost like he peaked two years ago then ?

I don't think it's a question of him peaking when he was 26, if that's the point you're making.

That's true of strikers and wingers certainly (that they peak between ages the of 23-28), but I think floaty AMs tend to have their peaks in the 26-31 age bracket. Look at Pires, Zidane, Kaka, Iniesta - all produced at a high clip till they were 30-31. Silva is 30 and still playing well. I reckon he has another year left enough him as well. Same with Cazorla, who's actually re-invented himself as a CM.


The issue with Lallana is more of talent than of him being past his physical peak, I think. When he signed, there were people who were calling him the English Silva, which was laughable. I said in that thread that he was closer in talent to the likes of Osman and Pedersen rather than Silva, and I was roundly laughed off. His career numbers now seem very much in that bracket.

It isn't about his ability on the ball or his work rate, I don't find him an intelligent enough player. His knowledge of when to pass, and when to run beyond the defence is quite ordinary. That's the difference between him and top AMs. Technically, he can match them, but that's no use if he doesn't have high game intelligence.

Take Kuyt for example. Someone in some thread said Lallana was like Kuyt with better technical ability, which I thought was deeply insulting to our Dirk. Lallana is clearly streets ahead of Kuyt technically, but Kuyt's game intelligence was far far superior. Kuyt's off the ball running was absolutely superb, and while he was quite poor on the ball, he knew how to create space for teammates, how to defer them when necessary, and most importantly he knew how to make simple finishes (even under pressure).

 

[Rosco]

There's a big difference between producing at a high level and being at your peak.

All of the players you mentioned as performaing well up until 31 are on another planet to Lallana, all fall into the best in show category. The best players in the world tend to have longer peaks than your average Premiership plodder like Pederson or Osman. The best players are the exception to the rule rather than what you should expect from someone on a totally different level. I always guess players like Lallana have a three year window when they'll be at their peak and performing at a high level.

Kaka was undoubtedly at his best in his early to mid twenties. Iniesta is a strange case for me (i think Barca have been doping) but even still his best season was probably when he was 24. Again he's had a longer peak because he's on another level to Lallana. Pires , definitely a late bloomer. Silva , just great.

So i think when you place Lallana in the Osman / Pederson category (I'd throw Downing in there too) they should be used as the blueprint.

Pederson - had a three year peak from ages 23-26. Nothing much after that.

Osman - three year peak around the same age , with one outlier season at 32.

Downing - three year 'peak' that ended age 27.

 

[Dahuge]

Shite is what he is.

Ok so slightly over the top but he is technically gifted with a inferiority complex hence why he can't and won't pass. In his tiny tiny mind doing flicks and turns means he is a good player...the best\better players know this and don't just run around and contribute nothing.

FFS people are massively slating firmino but at least he has scored 3 PL goals, Lallana has scored 0 in 200 minutes more....

Never wanted or rated him and now it just depresses me how poor he really is...

 

[peterhague]

Who is that guy? Or do we actually have any genuine Lallana fans on here who can offer a defence? There must have been some people who thought he'd be a great signing. Even at £25. Million. Pounds.

He's two-footed! That must count for something.

There were fucking loads of them at the time. Like the majority of the site. I know Rosco and I were against it and a few others but basically it was received with much excitement.

Ryan in particular I remember calling it a brilliant signing.

 

[dmishra]

There's a big difference between producing at a high level and being at your peak.

All of the players you mentioned as performaing well up until 31 are on another planet to Lallana, all fall into the best in show category. The best players in the world tend to have longer peaks than your average Premiership plodder like Pederson or Osman. The best players are the exception to the rule rather than what you should expect from someone on a totally different level. I always guess players like Lallana have a three year window when they'll be at their peak and performing at a high level.

Kaka was undoubtedly at his best in his early to mid twenties. Iniesta is a strange case for me (i think Barca have been doping) but even still his best season was probably when he was 24. Again he's had a longer peak because he's on another level to Lallana. Pires , definitely a late bloomer. Silva , just great.

So i think when you place Lallana in the Osman / Pederson category (I'd throw Downing in there too) they should be used as the blueprint.

Pederson - had a three year peak from ages 23-26. Nothing much after that.

Osman - three year peak around the same age , with one outlier season at 32.

Downing - three year 'peak' that ended age 27.

Fair enough - I don't think there's a huge difference in what we're saying.

But I'll add - Silva, Zidane, Iniesta aren't the only examples.

Benayoun joined us when he was 27, and had the best years of his career with us aged 27-30. Same with Arshavin, who spent his best years with Arsenal aged 27-31. Malouda as well (27-33 with Chelsea).

Maxi also was 29 when he joined us, and although past his statistical peak, produced at a fairly high clip.

Point I'm making is if Lallana were good enough, his age wouldn't be much of an hindrance in reproducing his Southampton stats.

 

[Hansern]

Who is Pederson? Is that Pedersen by any chance?

 

[rurikbird]

Is it fair to say that at this point Joe Allen is more of a goal threat than Lallana?

 

[FoxForceFive]

Is it fair to say that at this point Joe Allen is more of a goal threat than Lallana?

Well he scores, & Lallana doesn't, so, yeah.

 

[Khalido]

I'm reminded of a phrase coined (unfairly in my opinion) by Brian Clough in regard to Trevor Brooking.
When asked his opinion of the West Ham and England International, Clough stated..
"He floats like a butterfly, and stings like a butterfly."
Sums up Lallana.

 

[LarryHagman]

I like Lallana, nice player. But he's a bit like winning the lottery when you've already won it 10 times before. Nice and all that but doesn't really make any difference.

 

[doctor_mac]

I'm reminded of a phrase coined (unfairly in my opinion) by Brian Clough in regard to Trevor Brooking.
When asked his opinion of the West Ham and England International, Clough stated..
"He floats like a butterfly, and stings like a butterfly."
Sums up Lallana.

That's a perfect epithet for Lallana.

 

[Silver Sean]

He holds onto the ball far too long. It's like he's in a playground. One touch, pass and move more and he'd be an excellent player.
I think and hope that this time next year the team will only have three or four of the current bunch in it.

 

[Silver Sean]

I'm reminded of a phrase coined (unfairly in my opinion) by Brian Clough in regard to Trevor Brooking.
When asked his opinion of the West Ham and England International, Clough stated..
"He floats like a butterfly, and stings like a butterfly."
Sums up Lallana.

He obviously hadn't noticed that 'our Nigel' was exactly the same.

 

[Judge Jules]

He holds onto the ball far too long. It's like he's in a playground. One touch, pass and move more and he'd be an excellent player.
I think and hope that this time next year the team will only have three or four of the current bunch in it.

Beecroft was saying on TalkSh!te yesterday that he thinks there'll be a massive turnover of players next summer.

 

[keniget]

Beecroft was saying on TalkSh!te yesterday that he thinks there'll be a massive turnover of players next summer.

I hope not. We have a weak spine, which needs serious work but we've got a pretty decent squad we should hopefully be able to use.

I suppose the question is to what extent we need to sell to buy and which established first teamers are going to make way.

 

[rurikbird]

I hope not. We have a weak spine, which needs serious work but we've got a pretty decent squad we should hopefully be able to use.

I suppose the question is to what extent we need to sell to buy and which established first teamers are going to make way.

We do have quite a few assets to sell, without losing much in terms of actual contribution. Balotelli, Benteke (if he doesn't turn it around), alas maybe Sturridge, maybe Markovic, Lallana, Luis Alberto, Ilori, Wisdom, Lucas, Allen (although now I think Joe Pirlo will stay). Not saying all of these will be sold, but we certainly can raise some serious money through sales without touching the most valuable/promising parts of the team.

 

[darkstarexodus]

Who is Pederson? Is that Pedersen by any chance?

Now I know why it's called being "pedantic"

 

[Hansern]

Now I know why it's called being "pedantic"

Ha! Yes 😉
It was more in jest though

 

[Silver Sean]

I hope not. We have a weak spine, which needs serious work but we've got a pretty decent squad we should hopefully be able to use.

I suppose the question is to what extent we need to sell to buy and which established first teamers are going to make way.

Yep, we are spineless. I wouldn't be sad to see the back of about 10 of this squad. Fucking melts.

 

[Woland]

He's just a tiny bit too slow in his head. It's all there apart from that final ball or shot. Shame. I like watching him play and I thought he was a good signing at the time. If you can sum up the reason it isn't working here I reckon it's how the opposition set up playing against Southampton against how they do against us. Against them every team would be looking for a win and giving him space. Against us hardly anyone does, and those that do have the best defences in the league. He simply had a lot more time on the ball and looked a lot better for it.

 

[SummerOnions]

He's just a tiny bit too slow in his head. It's all there apart from that final ball or shot. Shame. I like watching him play and I thought he was a good signing at the time. If you can sum up the reason it isn't working here I reckon it's how the opposition set up playing against Southampton against how they do against us. Against them every team would be looking for a win and giving him space. Against us hardly anyone does, and those that do have the best defences in the league. He simply had a lot more time on the ball and looked a lot better for it.

Yeah that's it. I thought he'd be able to cope with it cos the talent is there but he doesnt seem able to respond fast enough. All that nivea is affecting his neurones

 

[Gary25]

I'm still shocked at that little turn of pace to get to the ball before playing a delightful ball across for Firmino for his 2nd goal. He changed the game when he came on and it was great to see because he's not done himself justice in a Liverpool shirt regularly enough. He's clearly not shit or useless or whatever...Lallana is a gifted footballer but I can understand why people get annoyed with him as he can hog the ball and slow our play down in the process and then there's his poor scoring/assists record. He's another player who'd look loads better with a shit hot striker in front of him and his productivity would increase as a result.

I wouldn't be in any rush to bomb him out in the summer even if we get Teixeira in this window. He's definitely worth a place in the squad...can understand people not being happy a £25m player is a squad player but I think Klopp genuinely likes him and you can see why. He's also a "great pro" (cliché alert) by all accounts.

 

[Esoteric]

I was happy with the signing of Lallana, I even thought the fee was fair enough,considering the English Added Tax. In his final season at Southampton he looked ace and there was high optimism that he would kick on with better players around him. I've been massively disappointed by him though and would expect any team with aspirations to replace him asap.

 

[Modo]

The performance against Norwich made the £25 million fee totally worth it.
I said it the day he joined and I'll say it again, we bought a squad player.

 

[RedRedRed]

No end product, his delivery frustrates me!

 

[moron]

He was very poor and looked tired last night and much of his passing was not up to standard. I think he is a great asset in our team for his skills, but I don't think he can play 2 full games in a row - just lacks that physical stamina and strength. I think to get the best out of him is to play him no more than 60 mins per game. Against Norwich he livened things up for us because he sat out the first half and was very lively when he came on. Klopp should use him like that more often.

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

The performance against Norwich made the £25 million fee totally worth it.
I said it the day he joined and I'll say it again, we bought a squad player.

Well done on being correct. It must feel great.

 

[Modo]

Well done on being correct. It must feel great.

In a way it does, in another way its pretty unfortunate cause if a nobody like me could spot that he just wasn't worth it, it makes you wonder what our scouts are doing.

No point in selling him though. We'll probably get less than half back. Or maybe it is worth it?

 

[Aidan O' Neill]

In a way it does, in another way its pretty unfortunate cause if a nobody like me could spot that he just wasn't worth it, it makes you wonder what our scouts are doing.

No point in selling him though. We'll probably get less than half back. Or maybe it is worth it?

It does? So "in a way" you'd rather be right than a player be a success for us? Strange way of thinking.