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Trent, Salah and VVD

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Frogfish said:
Plenty have and Mo. hasn’t shown any inclination to date.
Click to expand...

Maybe and I’d agree that he probably believes that he’s more than capable of playing in and wants to remain playing in a top European league & the Champions League for at least this season.

Anyway - like I said, happy he’s here this year, don’t care if we miss out on a fee, mixed about whether to extend his contract or not.
 
bluebell said:
I can see some logic in it all...

1) Trent... the output per game maybe is not worth it in terms of his main role as a RB, and not selling him now means we are covered in that position. If we consider the last 3 seasons maybe..his output compared to seasons before is not that high. Also is Slots system solely based on chance creation from his RB and LB like much of Klopp style ? NO

2) Salah, yes guaranteed goals for now, but maybe a more effective one on one dueler creates better and easier chances for others. Also there is a realistic expectency that with age his pace, and goal scoring ability will decline.

3) VVD, maybe he is holding out, maybe we are not sure he can perform consistently as he is getting on a bit, plus pace as a backline defender will get slower.

Collectively maybe they think it would be better value for money to sign new players in all those positions with less wages than to extend these aging guys with potentially lesser output.
Click to expand...
Tell me how you replace 2 legends of the game and a world class talent when your net spend is £40-50m in one window?
[/QUOTE]

You have answered that yourself - they are two legends which suggests they are past it anyway. Look I have two worries in that list:

1) VVD going scares more than anything as he has presence in that back line and gives me re-assurance, in my view he should be first on the list of contract-renewal and at least 2 more seasons should be given. By that time we should be able to identify the ideal replacement.

2) If they all leave - will FSG consider it a priority to replace them ? - I still cannot get over the season where we let Lovren go and decided to play the season with just 3 senior first-team centre backs. Fucking stupid idea, and also if they prioritize their replacements over what we need now then again we will be playing catch-up next season. If Trent leaves, and Salah leaves then clearly we need to replace those two positions -we won't get the same types of players but players for those respective positions regardless.


In terms of both Trent and Salah - I am not sure that Slot rates them enough to care for how he is going to play, under Klopp - both Salah and TAA's skill sets suited well but are what they offer essential to Slot ball ? - I am not so sure. So I am kind of relaxed about them moving on if they don't want to sign. Last few seasons my rating of TAA has gone completely down, as I don't think he knows himself what he wants. Regarding Salah, there were too many games where I feel for the majority of the time he is inactive or not involved in the game, if this trend continues this season then I cannot seen Slot really wanting to keep him on.
 
Not really that bothered about Salah or VVD yet, I think if they are happy to they would sign but Trent sounds like has hallmarks of Owen/Macca exit.
moron said:
Tell me how you replace 2 legends of the game and a world class talent when your net spend is £40-50m in one window?
Click to expand...

You have answered that yourself - they are two legends which suggests they are past it anyway. Look I have two worries in that list:

1) VVD going scares more than anything as he has presence in that back line and gives me re-assurance, in my view he should be first on the list of contract-renewal and at least 2 more seasons should be given. By that time we should be able to identify the ideal replacement.

2) If they all leave - will FSG consider it a priority to replace them ? - I still cannot get over the season where we let Lovren go and decided to play the season with just 3 senior first-team centre backs. Fucking stupid idea, and also if they prioritize their replacements over what we need now then again we will be playing catch-up next season. If Trent leaves, and Salah leaves then clearly we need to replace those two positions -we won't get the same types of players but players for those respective positions regardless.


In terms of both Trent and Salah - I am not sure that Slot rates them enough to care for how he is going to play, under Klopp - both Salah and TAA's skill sets suited well but are what they offer essential to Slot ball ? - I am not so sure. So I am kind of relaxed about them moving on if they don't want to sign. Last few seasons my rating of TAA has gone completely down, as I don't think he knows himself what he wants. Regarding Salah, there were too many games where I feel for the majority of the time he is inactive or not involved in the game, if this trend continues this season then I cannot seen Slot really wanting to keep him on.
[/QUOTE]
How can you know if Slot doesn't rate them after one game?
Slot has started both and commented about Salah's fitness just this week. Pretty sure if wants both but really depends if they want to stay.
Regarding all this talk of Slot ball, what exactly is Slot ball? Does it not need good players for Slot ball?
 
rubans said:
Not really that bothered about Salah or VVD yet, I think if they are happy to they would sign but Trent sounds like has hallmarks of Owen/Macca exit.


You have answered that yourself - they are two legends which suggests they are past it anyway. Look I have two worries in that list:

1) VVD going scares more than anything as he has presence in that back line and gives me re-assurance, in my view he should be first on the list of contract-renewal and at least 2 more seasons should be given. By that time we should be able to identify the ideal replacement.

2) If they all leave - will FSG consider it a priority to replace them ? - I still cannot get over the season where we let Lovren go and decided to play the season with just 3 senior first-team centre backs. Fucking stupid idea, and also if they prioritize their replacements over what we need now then again we will be playing catch-up next season. If Trent leaves, and Salah leaves then clearly we need to replace those two positions -we won't get the same types of players but players for those respective positions regardless.


In terms of both Trent and Salah - I am not sure that Slot rates them enough to care for how he is going to play, under Klopp - both Salah and TAA's skill sets suited well but are what they offer essential to Slot ball ? - I am not so sure. So I am kind of relaxed about them moving on if they don't want to sign. Last few seasons my rating of TAA has gone completely down, as I don't think he knows himself what he wants. Regarding Salah, there were too many games where I feel for the majority of the time he is inactive or not involved in the game, if this trend continues this season then I cannot seen Slot really wanting to keep him on.
Click to expand...
How can you know if Slot doesn't rate them after one game?
Slot has started both and commented about Salah's fitness just this week. Pretty sure if wants both but really depends if they want to stay.
Regarding all this talk of Slot ball, what exactly is Slot ball? Does it not need good players for Slot ball?
[/QUOTE]

1) I don't know if Slot rates them or not, but I did not mean in the harsh way that we all assume he has towards Endo.

2) Regarding Salah's fitness - I am sure he has to say that, and praise him as an example to all players who need to look after themselves in the off-season. I still don't know if he wants them.

3) Slot Ball - and how it differs to Klopp Ball - is simple:

a) Less chaotic - not excessive counter-pressing after losing the ball.
b) Defensively more compact
c) Better use of the midfield beyond counter-pressing and running constantly.

4) Does Slot need good players - yes of course it does, but you are assuming that for his system to work effectively - that Salah is the perfect RW, and Trent is the perfect RB for him. They might not be.
 
moron said:
How can you know if Slot doesn't rate them after one game?
Slot has started both and commented about Salah's fitness just this week. Pretty sure if wants both but really depends if they want to stay.
Regarding all this talk of Slot ball, what exactly is Slot ball? Does it not need good players for Slot ball?
Click to expand...

1) I don't know if Slot rates them or not, but I did not mean in the harsh way that we all assume he has towards Endo.

2) Regarding Salah's fitness - I am sure he has to say that, and praise him as an example to all players who need to look after themselves in the off-season. I still don't know if he wants them.

3) Slot Ball - and how it differs to Klopp Ball - is simple:

a) Less chaotic - not excessive counter-pressing after losing the ball.
b) Defensively more compact
c) Better use of the midfield beyond counter-pressing and running constantly.

4) Does Slot need good players - yes of course it does, but you are assuming that for his system to work effectively - that Salah is the perfect RW, and Trent is the perfect RB for him. They might not be.
[/QUOTE]
Slot and Trent are more than good enough for Slot by your definition, we aren't going to get this mythical perfect RW and RB with 10 days of transfer window to go but if both are good enough Real Madrid and PSG then they are good enough for Slot who has so far won accolades in Dutch league. Let's not turn Slot into some mythical Pep/Klopp beater yet, he has to earn that and he can earn it with two players who are super talented.
 
rubans said:
1) I don't know if Slot rates them or not, but I did not mean in the harsh way that we all assume he has towards Endo.

2) Regarding Salah's fitness - I am sure he has to say that, and praise him as an example to all players who need to look after themselves in the off-season. I still don't know if he wants them.

3) Slot Ball - and how it differs to Klopp Ball - is simple:

a) Less chaotic - not excessive counter-pressing after losing the ball.
b) Defensively more compact
c) Better use of the midfield beyond counter-pressing and running constantly.

4) Does Slot need good players - yes of course it does, but you are assuming that for his system to work effectively - that Salah is the perfect RW, and Trent is the perfect RB for him. They might not be.
Click to expand...
Slot and Trent are more than good enough for Slot by your definition, we aren't going to get this mythical perfect RW and RB with 10 days of transfer window to go but if both are good enough Real Madrid and PSG then they are good enough for Slot who has so far won accolades in Dutch league. Let's not turn Slot into some mythical Pep/Klopp beater yet, he has to earn that and he can earn it with two players who are super talented.
[/QUOTE]

I have not even mentioned what I think of Slot - so I don't know where you equate him not thinking Salah/Trent being right for his system with him being a top top coach. I don't think that all, I was just implying that maybe the output produced by Salah/Trent in games is not enough for Slot. It all starts being honest with what we have witnessed from both these players over the last two seasons:

1) Trent - lack of willingness to defend, one of the players along with Mac10 who has been got passed by opposition the most, not knowing what he wants - midfield/RB ? - take your pick. I don't want our team to play 90mins of football, relying on a few moments of Trent hollywood balls.

2) Salah - yes the goals have been coming, but in terms of effectiveness over 90 mins per game, we have witnessed his pace being less, and also very limited number of times where he beats players in a duel. The later might be something that Slot expects more from a RW role.

So yeah - Slot might think for the points I have picked neither are right for the football he wants to play.
 
moron said:
How can you know if Slot doesn't rate them after one game?
Slot has started both and commented about Salah's fitness just this week. Pretty sure if wants both but really depends if they want to stay.
Regarding all this talk of Slot ball, what exactly is Slot ball? Does it not need good players for Slot ball?
Click to expand...

1) I don't know if Slot rates them or not, but I did not mean in the harsh way that we all assume he has towards Endo.

2) Regarding Salah's fitness - I am sure he has to say that, and praise him as an example to all players who need to look after themselves in the off-season. I still don't know if he wants them.

3) Slot Ball - and how it differs to Klopp Ball - is simple:

a) Less chaotic - not excessive counter-pressing after losing the ball.
b) Defensively more compact
c) Better use of the midfield beyond counter-pressing and running constantly.

4) Does Slot need good players - yes of course it does, but you are assuming that for his system to work effectively - that Salah is the perfect RW, and Trent is the perfect RB for him. They might not be.
[/QUOTE]@moron
It's summer 2025, Trent wants to go to Madrid, £400k a week offer.
VVD £30m a year from Saudi
Salah £50m plus a year from Saudi
It's clear we're not competing. Tell me how you see Richard Hughes resolve this with a budget of £50m?
Both Salah and VVD would probably sign extensions on far less.
Every fucking transfer window we cry poverty but we are happy to see players run down their contacts and walk for free... Name me a another club other than Man U that does that?
Would Klopp have been as successful as he was unless he had sold Courtino and managed to use the funds to buy £200m worth if talent?
 
moron said:
Slot and Trent are more than good enough for Slot by your definition, we aren't going to get this mythical perfect RW and RB with 10 days of transfer window to go but if both are good enough Real Madrid and PSG then they are good enough for Slot who has so far won accolades in Dutch league. Let's not turn Slot into some mythical Pep/Klopp beater yet, he has to earn that and he can earn it with two players who are super talented.
Click to expand...

I have not even mentioned what I think of Slot - so I don't know where you equate him not thinking Salah/Trent being right for his system with him being a top top coach. I don't think that all, I was just implying that maybe the output produced by Salah/Trent in games is not enough for Slot. It all starts being honest with what we have witnessed from both these players over the last two seasons:

1) Trent - lack of willingness to defend, one of the players along with Mac10 who has been got passed by opposition the most, not knowing what he wants - midfield/RB ? - take your pick. I don't want our team to play 90mins of football, relying on a few moments of Trent hollywood balls.

2) Salah - yes the goals have been coming, but in terms of effectiveness over 90 mins per game, we have witnessed his pace being less, and also very limited number of times where he beats players in a duel. The later might be something that Slot expects more from a RW role.

So yeah - Slot might think for the points I have picked neither are right for the football he wants to play.
Click to expand...
Not sure if the quotes are fixed yet but who cares.

All your points are just so simplistic and wrong, there really is no point discussing this further it seems for the reasons have said before.
Salah for 90mins on Saturday was our most effective player including first 45 mins where he wasn't able to do much with the space down the wing but still...
It's ridiculous you think Trent's balls are "Hollywood", I think you may have misunderstood the term here.

They are measured and succint, if you think 6yrs of watching Trent is relying on just Hollywood balls after 1 game of Slot and a new forum obsession with "dueling" then probably nothing further to discuss on that.
 
I think its more likely that they players stalled to assess Slot & his methods / performance rather than the other way around.

I'm already confident all three will renew, even if two of them are more likely to be sold / ask to move in the next 12-24 months (Ali & Mo).
 
rubans said:
Not sure if the quotes are fixed yet but who cares.

All your points are just so simplistic and wrong, there really is no point discussing this further it seems for the reasons have said before.
Salah for 90mins on Saturday was our most effective player including first 45 mins where he wasn't able to do much with the space down the wing but still...
It's ridiculous you think Trent's balls are "Hollywood", I think you may have misunderstood the term here.

They are measured and succint, if you think 6yrs of watching Trent is relying on just Hollywood balls after 1 game of Slot and a new forum obsession with "dueling" then probably nothing further to discuss on that.
Click to expand...

@rubans - I am not prepared to have a player whose primary function is to actually defend, but does not seem to like defending, and then you tolerate him coz you know he can make great passes - long range ones, that may come off and lead to something good. Getting tired of it, he is like what Anakin Skywalker was to the Jedi council - can never be sure of him and his 'Clouded' future. It's like the England team - in the end they opted for known stability in the back line rather than going for someone who may or may not produce some magic.
 
moron said:
@rubans - I am not prepared to have a player whose primary function is to actually defend, but does not seem to like defending, and then you tolerate him coz you know he can make great passes - long range ones, that may come off and lead to something good. Getting tired of it, he is like what Anakin Skywalker was to the Jedi council - can never be sure of him and his 'Clouded' future. It's like the England team - in the end they opted for known stability in the back line rather than going for someone who may or may not produce some magic.
Click to expand...
His primary function isn’t to defend though under Klopp and suspect Slot. You have to do a hell of lot more than that.
Modern RB aren’t required to be Wan Bisaka.
Are you seriously quoting England and Southgate as evidence? An England whom have done well to get further but failed to win anything with as much balance and talent as I can remember any era. I think you have a very short memory and I suspect doesn’t really much of a clue if you have to question the value of Trent, Salah and VVD to LFC this season and next. Get off the bias.
 
It's a small straw to clasp, but Henry being there may inject some life into contract talks. There's simply no chance it wasn't discussed or mentioned on his visit here.
 
Virgil Van Dijk: “I want to play another World Cup. I know I am still more than good enough. I am the captain of Liverpool, a consistent factor and I feel excellent physicially while I am improving on the ball too.
 
Hansern said:
Virgil Van Dijk: “I want to play another World Cup. I know I am still more than good enough. I am the captain of Liverpool, a consistent factor and I feel excellent physicially while I am improving on the ball too.
Click to expand...
So sign a new contract and dont take any chances a year before the world cup.
 
Hansern said:
He’ll sign. I think all 3 sign tbh
Click to expand...
Not sure about Trent but for Virgil and Mo. they are settled and playing to WC levels. I doubt either would want to jeopardise that with the upheaval on family and integration into a new team.
 
Frogfish said:
Not sure about Trent but for Virgil and Mo. they are settled and playing to WC levels. I doubt either would want to jeopardise that with the upheaval on family and integration into a new team.
Click to expand...

I think Trent is really settled as well. He’ll sign
 
Frogfish said:
Not sure about Trent but for Virgil and Mo. they are settled and playing to WC levels. I doubt either would want to jeopardise that with the upheaval on family and integration into a new team.
Click to expand...
This is what I am hoping - but I think the main issues are that they probably want 3 year contracts and the club at a stretch will do 2 year only. Personally I think they are harsh on the contract negotiation coz these boys are on high wages. I just wonder, but I hope it gets done, but totally agree with you on the personal level regarding family for both Salah and VVD.
 
I'm assuming the club (Hughes et al) are in conversation with the agents but not the players. Hence Mo being able to say "no contact with me"

I refuse to believe there has been no contact. I suspect the club feels they have the upper hand with Mo & Virge.
 
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