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Time wasting

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Hansern

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This is probably my biggest issue with football these days. It ruins games and makes it unwatchable. I cant for the love of God understand how referees let players take up to 30 secs getting ready to do a throw in or a goal kick.
In our game vs Chelsea, Atkinson gave a yellow card for timewasting in the 92nd minute but it started after the first minute. Yesterday Probert let the City players carry on and added 6 mins. The ball was probably out of play for about 4 of those 6 mins. The fake injuries etc are just laughable and make the sport look ridiculous.

We've been doing this aswell this season by the way.

Something need to change. I would want referees to be more strict when it comes to obvious timewasting. For example after one warning you dish out a yellow. Doesnt matter if its in the 3rd minute.

When referees add up the injury time minutes I'd welcome a rule change. The added mins should be played effectively. With that I mean that the clock only moves when the ball is in play and stops when it isnt. A team/player shouldnt be rewarded for wasting up to 2 mins of 4 added on "cramp" and getting ready to take a throw ins. The point of 4 added mins are then totally lost.

Referees could also add more mins when theres been obvious time wasting.

Thoughts?
 
Dzeko's "injury" was pathetic. The ref and players were standing around him for about 2-3 minutes before the stretcher's team came in.
I believe this was only allowed to happen because citeh wanted to waste time and Everton "didn't mind". Had they cared about it he would have been taken off after 1-2 minutes.
It is an issue. I hope citeh taste such time wasting themselves soon. And Everton too.
 
Refs really have to respond to this. They need to book players promptly. Stoke were routine culprits when they spent about a minute before every throw wiping the ball. Now it's becoming much more common among the top clubs. There's no excuse for that idiot ref last week pointing at his watch all the time and then quite blatantly NOT adding any time on at the end. But TV companies don't like too much added time, it messes up with their planning, so I can't see too much happening with that aspect. Book the culprits and it'll stop soon enough. Mind you, we said the same about holding and pulling opponents in the area, and refs still bottle that.
 
Macca's spot on. Refs only dish out token cards in the dying minutes when they know it's unlikely to result in someone being sent off.
 
That said if we were 1-0 up in a cup final or title decider I wouldn't be unhappy if our players did it.
 
I know, but I'd be more impressed if a team kept the ball in the team to waste time.
Its been ruining football for a while now.
 
It's time wasting as early as the first half, or even the first few minutes, that needs the big reaction. That's just taking the piss out of the poor sods who have paid to see a competitive game of football.
 
There's two solutions:

1) yellow cards and once 1-2 players get reds in a game, it will stop quickly.
2) Have an 'apprentice' ref on the sideline adding up all the missed time to add to the game at the end ...
 
It needs a summer crackdown amongst the refs. Then communicate clearly to all players that time wasters will get 1 warning then straight yellow card in the future.

I know we're on the receiving end of it at the moment (so feeling it acutely) but it's fucking laughable at the moment.
 
It is an annoying part of the game that I find frustrating too but it's hard to take these kind of moral crusades seriously when they happen to come directly after the matter at hand has affected us.

If it was the other way round (and let's be honest, it's not like Liverpool have never wasted time), I doubt anyone would be claiming it's an outrage.
 
It is an annoying part of the game that I find frustrating too but it's hard to take these kind of moral crusades seriously when they happen to come directly after the matter at hand has affected us.

If it was the other way round (and let's be honest, it's not like Liverpool have never wasted time), I doubt anyone would be claiming it's an outrage.


Yes they would. As has been said, few would moan about running down time at the end of a game - it's always been done and it makes sense. I don't believe for a minute that most on here would sit back and admire ANY team start wasting time pretty much as soon as the game kicked off.


This, from someone who doesn't feel the need for a bout of self-flagellation after getting all giddy for a week or two, is a sensible piece:

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Debate about Jose Mourinho and his methods isn’t seriously affected by Atletico Madrid’s authoritative termination of the Chelsea challenge in this year’s Champions League. The 3-1 defeat at Stamford Bridge on Wednesday did make him a loser in six of the eight semi-finals of the tournament that teams managed by him have contested. But having gone so far so often, and twice finished with mastery of Europe, is an outstanding achievement. Add the winning of league titles in four countries (Portugal, England, Italy and Spain) and questioning his skills or doubting that his policies are frequently effective becomes ludicrous.

That, however, wasn’t remotely the point of recent criticism Mourinho has sneeringly attributed to philosophers of football peddling fantastic theories. What has been hard to stomach is the insistence of his admirers (most conspicuously himself) that his tactics are never fundamentally negative but always simply the deployment of excellence in defence to establish a platform for productive attacking. Well, the statistics from those eight Champions League semi-finals indicate that construction of the platform has seldom gone smoothly.

In the 16 matches involved, Mourinho teams had an aggregate of 13 goals and in the six Chelsea played under him they scored just twice. While low-scoring encounters are neither unnatural nor unfamiliar at the semi-final stage of the Champions League, with his Chelsea the likelihood of a scarcity of goals, and of what many of us would regard as an unacceptable level of entertaining play, has generally been increased by his attritional intentions. But that’s his business, and it ill behoves outsiders to lecture a man with such a CV about how his European record would be even better if he had brought a more expansive sense of ambition, a more consistent emphasis on penetration, to the efforts of his players.

It is when cheerleaders for Mourinho tell us the dullness often associated with his approach isn’t really dull at all — when they condescendingly acquaint us with how yokelish it is to refuse to be riveted or stirred to applause by the kind of match we saw in the first leg of the Atletico-Chelsea tie — that the ire rises.

Obviously Atletico, as the home team, were hugely culpable in that dreary apology for top-grade football. But, whereas they were transformed in west London by rediscovering the vibrant qualities that have been disturbing the monopoly of Barcelona and Real Madrid in La Liga, Chelsea were perhaps marginally weaker as a consequence of injury and suspensions and were convincingly consigned to ruing the negligibility of their pursuit of an away goal in Spain.

Now Mourinho is concentrating on the two undaunting assignments (Norwich at the Bridge today and a trip to Cardiff on May 11) he must negotiate profitably to keep alive Chelsea’s faint hopes of the Premier League title, the one prize that could still spare him the pain of following a barren final season at Real Madrid with another devoid of a major trophy. However, as he copes with the problems of a club in transition, his upbeat declarations focus on the improvement in Chelsea he is sure of producing next season.

Remembering the remarkable domestic success of his previous spell in his present job, it would be extremely foolish to dismiss his promises. Yet he will recognise the substantial obstacles to replicating the standards of his first tenure, especially the near-impossibility of bringing in a front-line leader with the immense catalytic influence of Didier Drogba, one of the least subduable centre-forwards most of us have ever seen.

The playing style employed by Mourinho when he had Drogba, and Frank Lampard in his prime, was different from the methods he has applied of late. And there is inevitably a more dramatic discrepancy between how he has operated recently and his use of the deadly, monumentally expensive attacking talents of Real Madrid, above all Cristiano Ronaldo, when winning the Spanish league championship with unprecedented totals of goals and points in 2012. So there’s scope for arguing that he adapts his tactics to suit the players at his disposal. But it’s patently disingenuous to deny that running through his extraordinary career is clear and persistent evidence of a predilection for caution rather than adventure and, when the stakes are high, an alacrity in opting for outright negativity.

Again, needless to say, those are attitudes to which he has every right. What neither he nor the many who fervently admire him (notwithstanding his notorious lurches into reprehensible conduct) should feel entitled to do is brand as football philistines all who find the most glaringly sterile of his teams’ performances excruciating to watch. Trying to tell us only a lack of sophisticated insights prevents us from being entertained by such displays is pseudery. Our responses are due less to ignorance than to comparisons with other managers down through the decades who have demonstrated how exhilarating, and successful, faith in positive football can be.

Back in the 1960s Helenio Herrera was the acknowledged master of stifling defence and his Inter Milan were automatically favourites to thwart Jock Stein’s attempt to pull off the miracle of enabling a group of Celtic players all born in Glasgow or nearby to become the first British team to lift the European Cup. Before the 1967 final in Lisbon, Stein told me: “I mean it when I say we don’t just want to win this cup. We want to win it playing good football, to make neutrals glad we’ve done it. . .”In the jubilant turmoil of the Celtic dressing room after the match, I heard an elderly Portuguese official, ecstatic over the dismantling of Herrera’s creed, say to Jock: “This attacking play, this is the real meaning of football. This is the true game.”

It is, self-evidently, by no means the only legitimate or laudable way of playing. But if thinking it’s the best is childish, fetch me a highchair.


 
*+
Yes they would. As has been said, few would moan about running down time at the end of a game - it's always been done and it makes sense. I don't believe for a minute that most on here would sit back and admire ANY team start wasting time pretty much as soon as the game kicked off.


No, it wouldn't be admire. It'd be tolerated though (if it benefited us).
 
We're not very good at time wasting ourselves, are we.
Otherwise we might have had 20 titles by now...
 
Why don't they just stop the game clock and end on 90 minutes?
Exactly, this is the fairest and most obvious solution to the problem. It also eliminates the need for any subjective assessment of how much time should be added on. You can still give the refs discretion to dish out yellows if someone is unncessarily stopping the game clock.

Surely the technology required to do this at every ground and sync it with the broadcast game clocks will ony require a minimally incremental expenditure?
 
Interesting point about the TV companies. That fits because I've always thought injury time was suspiciously inelastic. You get a perfectly normal half of football, a couple of subs etc - 4 minutes. You get two broken legs, a pitch invasion, endless time wasting, 4 players sent off - 6 minutes.

Hmmm.
 
The rules don't work because they're ignored most of the time. Without consistency you might as well not have them. For example, I'm ridiculously aware these days of how often keepers carry the ball out of their area before kicking - several times a match, usually - simply because Reina was booked that time for doing so and at the time it seemed so random. You're just left wondering why they have the rule. It all comes down to all the refs displaying the same degree of common sense and discipline, but that won't happen. I imagine the stewards and the police, as well as TV, want games to finish pretty promptly and predictably, especially evening games, and if technology logged all the extra time they'd sometimes be there for ages.
 
So what's the exact rule on time wasting?

Do these count: -

1. Taking over 10 seconds for the keeper to kick the ball
2. Taking the ball in to the corners
3. Talking to the ref
4. Passing the ball along the back four
5. Taking over 10 seconds to throw the ball back on the pitch

*10 seconds was made up but that's also under debate.

PS I quiffed all the posts
 
So what's the exact rule on time wasting?

Do these count: -

1. Taking over 10 seconds for the keeper to kick the ball
2. Taking the ball in to the corners
3. Talking to the ref
4. Passing the ball along the back four
5. Taking over 10 seconds to throw the ball back on the pitch

*10 seconds was made up but that's also under debate.

PS I quiffed all the posts

I think if the ball is still in play (i.e. opponents are free to challenge for the ball), then it's more tolerable. So, while taking the ball to the corner and shielding it, passing it along the back four indefinitely, etc. are not entertaining at all, there's nothing stopping the opponents from attempting to get the ball back, because the rules allow it.

It's frustrating and downright rotten, on the other hand, when the opponent is helpless because the rules disallow them from challenging for the ball, such as delaying a goal kick, free kick, throw in, rolling on the floor waiting for the physio, and then delaying some more waiting for the stretcher, pretending to have a head/facial injury, etc. Or in Drogba's case, lying on the floor outside the field of play and rolling back in to stop play.
 
I think if the ball is still in play (i.e. opponents are free to challenge for the ball), then it's more tolerable. So, while taking the ball to the corner and shielding it, passing it along the back four indefinitely, etc. are not entertaining at all, there's nothing stopping the opponents from attempting to get the ball back, because the rules allow it.

It's frustrating and downright rotten, on the other hand, when the opponent is helpless because the rules disallow them from challenging for the ball, such as delaying a goal kick, free kick, throw in, rolling on the floor waiting for the physio, and then delaying some more waiting for the stretcher, pretending to have a head/facial injury, etc. Or in Drogba's case, lying on the floor outside the field of play and rolling back in to stop play.
So it's the ref that decides if it's tolerable? Isn't tolerance subjective and are there written rules to help the ref?
 
So it's the ref that decides if it's tolerable? Isn't tolerance subjective and are there written rules to help the ref?


No, I mean tolerable to us (specifically me) or not, sorry. The ref certainly is expected to go by the rules. Question of course, is how extensive / specifc the rules are, and if the ref is a bit of a wanker who conveniently forgets them - and is then not pulled up for it by the board of wankers who oversee referee performance / standards.
 
To be honest, the last ten minutes of the City game my mates were standing up screaming "GET A CRAMP!!! KICK IT OUT!! WALK SLOOOOOOWLY COUNTINHO" at the telly

I think it's a legit tactic.


Though I didn't think tying your shoelaces could be so effective until the Chelsea match.
 
He was a prick, but Djeko got a card and time was added on.

Schwarzer, Cole and Schurrle should have all been carded last week for it, and significantly more time per half (5 more mins total for the game, at least) should've been added.

You don't mind so much (chavs and mancs tactics, won't change) as the long as the refs are consistent with it.
 
Ah right, it's ok if it's the last 10 minutes? That's in the rules or something.

Don't get me wrong, it was a frustrating strategy by Chelsea but that's all it was.


You honestly don't understand the difference between winding down the last few minutes of a game and wasting time from the kick off? You do realise other people can read what you write? You do? Ah right, okay. Your choice.
 
You honestly don't understand the difference between winding down the last few minutes of a game and wasting time from the kick off? You do realise other people can read what you write? You do? Ah right, okay. Your choice.
And you understand the term 'sore loser'?
 
Yes. And as I said, I made the distinction between that and making rational judgements. But keep trying. It's very perverse, but keep going. I take it you're perfectly admiring of teams wasting time right from the kick off, and you think if someone isn't they're a sore loser. It's really weird logic, real mallet on the skull weird logic, but keep it up, it's fascinating.
 
Yes. And as I said, I made the distinction between that and making rational judgements. But keep trying. It's very perverse, but keep going. I take it you're perfectly admiring of teams wasting time right from the kick off, and you think if someone isn't they're a sore loser. It's really weird logic, real mallet on the skull weird logic, but keep it up, it's fascinating.
You sound more bitter than making a rational judgement. Cantankerous in every post you make.

Rules are rules, that's how the game is played. Frustrating it maybe when a team starts of with that strategy there's not a lot anyone can do. The ref needs to give a yellow for it but it has to be within the rules.
 
I make a distinction between time wasting to finish a game and time wasting from the start. You don't. It's a Sunday, you're clearly bored, but you're just wasting my time and everyone else's. I think tomorrow you'll read back your posts (and the ones and phrases you've cribbed from other people - now that's REALLY lazy) and feel a bit foolish. But that's it tonight. I've said all I need to say. Ignored.
 
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