• You may have to login or register before you can post and view our exclusive members only forums.
    To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

So why's he bought Benteke... ?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Ryan

The Prophet
Member
So now that he’s here, I’ve been trying to figure out why we got him. I’m over the fact that I didn’t really want him I guess, have endured the post-signing glow you get, and s’pose I’m trying to analyse what Rodgers thinks he brings.

A dangerous thought given this is the guy who felt Alberto, Aspas, Rickie Lambert, etc would fit into our ‘style of play’.

Anyway, here’s my uneducated guesses I guess…

- Sturridge is never fit.
Easy one. He just fucking isn't. I like the fact that his dribbling-round-in-circles video the other day got like zero fucking interest. Everyone’s over that shit seemingly. Love you and all, but dude just get fucking fit. So yeah, he had to buy *someone* I suppose. You can’t rely on Sturridge, and the rest of the options – Borini, Balotelli, Lambert – have proven themselves to be useless, so he’s recognised that last season’s charade of having strikers either injured or producing fuck all couldn’t go on.

- Brodge is all about the 4-3-3.
He is. Up and down 4-3-3 man. It worked for him at Swansea, he rolled it out for us straight up in his first season, and only deviated from it 2 years ago when he had to find a way to get Suarez and Sturridge into the same side. He went straight back to it at the start of last season again, only to end up shifting it again when he decided to go with 3 at the back.It’s been the focus all this pre-season too; 4-3-3 with solid hardworking midfielders in Milner, Hendo, and probably Lucas doing the graft and then yer 3 up front to win the game. Who those 3 are is up for debate at this stage, but you can be certain he’s bought Benteke to play the pivotal central point of that 3. If you look at the 4-3-3’s that have worked well over the years, they’ve all had a quality target man up top in the 9 role stretching the defence, occupying the centre backs, and opening space in the hole. Eto’o for Barca with Ronaldinho/Messi alongside him; Van Persie for Holland, with Robben/Kuyt to the sides; even Rodgers' own Swansea sides that rocketed up the leagues had it with Michu/Bony up top and Sinclair and Dyer to the sides.
It does work, you’ve just got to have the personnel.

- Sturridge doesn’t run the channels.
So the personnel^^ have to do certain basic things, and in a 4-3-3 if your front man doesn’t run in behind the full-backs, doesn’t look for one over the top, doesn’t want to stretch then you’re easy to defend against. Sturridge doesn’t run in behind. He just doesn’t. He’s fucking brilliant n all, but it’s not his go, he always wants to come and receive, always shows short, and likes to be involved from deep in the build up. I think he actually see’s himself as a number 10 but anyway. So the problem with that is that it’s easy to defend against. He just ends up running into the space that Coutinho, Lallana, Firminho are all trying to find space in, the opposing centre backs push up and the whole thing’s congested. We’re trying to do one-two’s in a phone box 50 yards from goal. It happened so many times last year. So… You off-set that by finding somebody who will run into the space behind a full-back. Case in point, the FA Cup Semi-Final; for some reason (tactical or selfish) Emre Can, one of our 3 centre-backs, decided to play the first half at right-wing. Good sides would have figured that out after about 2 minutes and exploited it. It took Tim Sheroowd a touch longer than that, but anyway. Twice in a row Benteke moved to the space occupied by Can, the second-time leading to the goal. He dragged Skrtel wide leaving Sakho on his own, you get Delph, Grealish and Cleverley running from deep cos Gerrard couldn’t be fucked tracking them and they’re queuing up to score. And as if to hammer home the point, they did it for the second too. Benteke drifts wide, Delph runs free. 2 up, lights out. Benteke makes those runs - willingly too, he pulls centre backs wide, and sometimes it is about using the width of the pitch as much as the length. And if you can drag a centre back out wide, then that’s space for the Coutinho, Firmino, Milner, Hendo’s of the world to run into.


- He lengthens the pitch.
Sterling, Lallana, Coutinho. That was our front 3 for the majority of last season, and they all play in front of you if you're an oppsing centre back. Centre backs just puched up and closed the gap to their defensive midfielders. It was as basic as it got. The John Terry's of the world, who can get done for leg speed, want nothing more than a bunch of players in front of them. You've got to make Terry turn. Tighten the gap, restrict the space for them to play, force them back, job done. It even got to the point where opposing centre-backs could leave their defensive line to pressure us too. How fucking bad is that? They’re so unworried (?) about you going in behind that they’re shoving their centre back forward to win it back off you. Benteke occupies at least one centre back. He’s been bought for the space he provides to our 3 or 4 attacking mids just as much as he has for his goals.

- Counter attack. Especially away from home.
I think it was the Arsenal away game where it was most obvious. We couldn’t even get out of our half. We made Per Mertesacker look like fucking Beckenbaeur. Even the best sides need an ‘out’ ball at times. 99% of sides get dominated at the Emirates. Same goes for Stamford Bridge, the Britannia, Old Trafford, fuck even Everton at times. To relieve the defence, especially one as shit as ours, and to allow your midfielders time to get forward you’ve just got to have someone who can receive and hold it up. Costa, Giroud, Dzeko, Bony, Benzema… Sure they score goals, but they hold it up too. Watch Benzema in Europe away from home, he spends half his time just receiving and dishing off to Modric, Ronaldo, etc. It’s priceless. Plus, he becomes the focal point of the attack, and means our small attacking mids can run off him.
And 4-3-3 sides counter attack. Especially Brodge’s 4-3-3.

- The start to the season.
Away to Stoke, and then away to every one of the top sides in the first 2-3 months. Two reasons why that’s crucial; 1 – we’ve got no Sturridge or Sterling, two of our other threats are unproven – Firmino & Ibe, and 2 – Brodge is out of a job if he fucks it up. We’ve simply got to start well, so I’d say he pushed for this as much as any signing in his time here. He’s not dumb, just fucking nauseating, but even he would know that a strong start – or one that doesn’t see us unnecessarily lose ground will keep him here. We can beat the cannon fodder; we saw that last year when we went 12 or 13 games unbeaten when we put away the fucking shite, so if he can get through the first 2 months relatively unscathed, then we’ll have a chance to make ground. Plus, he’s gone and bought ‘premiership proven’. Loathe it or loathe it, he’s bought in Milner, Benteke, Clyne and Ings – who all cut it in this league last year. If Benteke can’t hold it up away to Stoke on opening day, then who the fuck can he’ll be thinking.

- There aren’t any other Suarezes.
I, as much as anyone else, have been championing the fact that our best form came when we didn’t have yer archetypal target man there, we had this diminutive Uruguayan all-rounder. I guess he was a one-off, so admitting that you can’t replace like-for-like is probably the wise thing to do about now. I’m no global scout, but even I know there aren’t many other out there like him… Aguero? No chance. Sanchez? Sailed ship. Tevez? Too old. Rooney? Too cunt. Who else is there really? There haven’t been too many big name strikers available and drifting around this summer - especially not many who can replace a Suarez, and thinking back to my first point above – we had to get someone. Not in a Balotelli-desperation way either.
And I don’t actually think Brodge wanted to try and re-create the manufactured 4-4-2 diamond we had then anyway. He’s a 4-3-3 man by default, and I guess (actually I’m hoping) he knows that having two centre-mids in a flat 4 – especially when one of them is Gerrard – leaves you horribly exposed going the other way.

Plus there's all the standard stuff about the fact he can score goals, is a threat at set-pieces, is largely fit and injury-free, is young, knows the league, etc etc.

I’m still not totally for it, I think I’d have preferred us to wait until someone who does fit the mould better became available in 6 months or wherever, but I guess Brodge figured he won’t have another 6 months in the job if he doesn’t produce from the get-go this season, so we are where we are.

It’s his job if this one fails.
 
Great post. Its a selfish buy from Rodgers to not get sacked in many ways. If it works many of us won't care about that
 
We signed him because he destroyed us over the past 2 seasons.

That's our transfer policy ... play a blinder against LFC and you're gonna end up here ... Bogdan had a cracker against us last season too.
 
Lots of interesting and valid observations here, very quickly (because I need to sleep) some points I don't quite agree with:

1. I am not convinced Rodgers is a "4-3-3 man." I think he is a genuinely flexible tactician - in fact he is probably the most tactically flexible manager I've ever followed closely. In his time in LFC I saw him go from 4-3-3 to 4-2-3-1 in his first season, then in the second season he was building all summer for 4-2-3-1, but didn't quite like how it was performing* and switched to 3-5-2 by October and when Lucas and Allen both came back from long-term injuries switched again to a very attacking 4-3-3. We destroyed Spurs and Arsenal with this system, but Rodgers still felt it was too open and risky, so he found the 4-4-2 "diamond" and we almost won the league with it. Then early last season we thumped Spurs with the Sturridge and Balotelli pairing up front in the "diamond"; everyone thought that was the way to go, but then Sturridge got injured and Rodgers tried playing Balotelli on his own up front, didn't work, tried pairing him with with another striker, didn't work, he was clutching at straws and finally found the 3-4-3 system with Sterling up front that saved the season from being an even worse disaster.

Probably you're right that 4-3-3 is kind of the "basic system" for him, but this doesn't mean he is going to actually use it, it has to do more with using the principles of 4-3-3 (triangle passing, widening the pitch, pressure on the ball etc) rather than the actual formation itself. And history shows Rodgers molds his formation to the qualities of the players he has available and not the other way round.

2. I am not convinced Benteke is at his best playing the target man or "pivot" in the 4-3-3. Chances are, Rodgers will try this formation at some point (whether as the main system or as an experiment), so we will find out for sure and then we can talk about it. But I don't like this idea because a) Benteke biggest weakness is passing, so making him a "pivot" a la Ibrahimovic or Lewandowski doesn't make much sense and b) having him as the only target up front will inevitably simplify our game and suck out the passing and creativity out of the midfield – so when/if Rodgers tries it I don't think he will like what he sees**.

3. Even after Borini and Lambert leave, we still have 4-6 strikers in the squad, depending on whether you count Firmino as a striker and whether Balotelli stays (which I think is still a possibility). Sure, some of them can play on the wing, but still it would probably make more sense to play with 2 strikers with the way this squad is shaping up. Personally I have high hopes on Benteke and Firmino forming a killer strike partnership, Firmino's technique, work-rate and creativity complementing Benteke's strength and finishing.

* I actually remember Ryan writing a very good post about it after a frustrating 2:2 draw and explaining how a system based on flat lines as opposed to triangles had no chance of working for us.
** It's important to note that 4-3-3 and 4-3-2-1 (Christmas tree) formations are NOT the same, despite looking rather similar. 4-3-3 is 2 wing-forwards and a striker; 4-3-2-1 is 2 attacking midfielders/playmakers and a striker. It's basically almost the same as 4-4-2 "diamond" as in both of them the width is provided by the full-backs rather than the wingers. I don't want to see 4-3-3 with Benteke up front, but I'm very much OK with either "Christmas tree" or "diamond".


Shit, now I'm really past my bedtime. Night, y'all.
 
He keeps his job if we improve on last seasons results, which is what everybody wants so its not selfish its pragmatic and thats exactly what you want a manager to do

As for the original post its pretty much spot on. We put our faith in Sturridge last season and he showed he just cannot be relied upon. Lesson learnt, its all well and good saying wait for a genuine world class talent to become available but none of them wanted to play for us so we go for the best available option or we gamble the whole season on Sturridge again. I'd be furious if we gambled on Sturridge after losing the goal scoring input of Gerrard and Sterling on top of Suarez.
 
If we don't drastically change our style of play this season to accommodate him and his strengths it will be the final straw for Rodgers.

I don't see us doing it and think Rodgers will be gone by Xmas.

But maybe just maybe Benteke can surprise us all and fit our slick 4-3-3 philosophy.

I've been meh about the signing not because I don't rate him, but more because I've no idea how he fits with everything Rodgers has been doing for 3 years at the club.
 
It'll need all the attacking players to be much more aggressive and dynamic. When Benteke goes into the area he'll need to be followed closely by two or three other players, and last season especially our players were AWFUL at getting into the area. It was as if they felt it was illegal to be in there more than one at a time. So far in pre-season we've been crossing the ball more, but hardly anyone has even threatened to attack it in the area, and rarely has anyone followed up. That needed changing long before Benteke became known as a target, so hopefully Sean O'Driscoll is working his magic on that aspect right now.
 
Yeah, I got sick & tired of repeating the same things let season, mostly 'get in the fucking box'. It's like there's an invisible forcefield our players couldn't cross, instead turning their back to goal & choosing to make stupid fucking passes each time.

I started saying we were like arsenal, trying to pass it into the net, but it's actually worse than that, cos we werent even trying to pass it forwards towards the goal, but simply around the box in never-ending, infuriating, passing triangles.

Hopefully benteke's introduction will mean those defenders get stretched which opens the doors enough to encourage the other attackers to push forwards & be more direct, but I'm not sure if it's as simple as that.
 
How different will Benteke's inclusion be from when Crouch joined us back under Benitez? Plenty pointed out that Crouch joining was to give more sharpness aerially, but that he was also decent on the floor.
 
Benitez was just weird about Crouch. It was as if he just wanted to prove that he could make Crouch look good in his team, and then, once he had done so, he lost all interest in him. It was like some academic exercise for him.
 
Our squad looks very top heavy and seems to present more questions than answers, which is worrying given our predilection for posshibilities and randomizing our system / tactics throughout the season.

What happens if Sturridge ever gets his shit together for more than a couple months? Does he play out wide? Does Benteke drop to the bench?

Ings and Origi are both young and from what I've seen neither look suited (yet) to playing up front on their own for a team like ours even if it is in the lesser competitions. Do they play as wide forwards (more of an issue for Ings than Origi) thus sacrificing the game time and development of our attacking midfielders or do we change the formation thus sacrificing consistency?

Where does Firmino fit into the picture with Coutinho, Lallana, Ibe and the seemingly forgotten man, Markovic?
 
Where does Firmino fit into the picture with Coutinho, Lallana, Ibe and the seemingly forgotten man, Markovic?

We could argue that three of them either didn't cut it or weren't ready last season, so essentially I'm guessing that Coutinho and Firmino will play the majority of games with the other three pushing for places. I still think people are expecting Firmino to be a playmaker when he looks more than capable of playing as a wide forward. In that respect I'd expect Coutinho to be one of the three in midfield (the top of the triangle) with Firmino a wide forward alongside Benteke +1, out of Ibe and Lallana. Markovic will have his work cut out, but will provide back up for the three/four attacking roles alongside Ings and Origi. It is top heavy but we're never without our injury problems, etc. So...
 
For the 6 midfield/attacking places this is what we have, man for man:

----------------Can/Lucas-----Milner/Allen-----------------
---------------------Coutinho/Henderson-------------------
Ibe/Lallana-------Benteke/Sturridge-------Firmino/Origi

with Ings & Markovic completing the set from the bench. We have to go into the season having written Sturridge off, he's out until Sept/Oct and will take ages to get back into things after a year out. It's still top heavy though I suppose, we can argue that we might be stronger in the cups, but we know full well it doesn't always work out that way.

In contrast, this is our defense:

-----------------------Mignolet/Bogdan---------------------------------
Clyne/Gomez--Skrtel/Toure--Lovren/Sakho--Moreno/Gomez

+Ilori, Wisdom (gone I reckon) and Flanagan.

I could personally live without Sakho, Lovren and to lesser degree (as backup and a different influence) Toure. We really should have cut our losses on Lovren and I'm not convinced Sakho is the answer either, he's all over the place and breeds uncertainty throughout the backline. We should have bought big here. I think Gomez and Clyne will tighten things though, Clyne has that natural inclination to tuck inside when we're on the defensive, something we've lacked since Arbeloa, and with Gomez being a natural centre back, I expect more of the same when he plays too. Ideally we should play those two at fullback for now to compensate for the lack of quality next to Skrtel.

Sorry for going off on a tangent!
 
I don't see us being top heavy at all. Just about right it seems to me.

When we play in Europe it has caused us issues over the past few seasons, we didn't have a squad capable of handling 3 domestic competitions and Europe. Now we do, especially for the rounds against minnows when we really don't need to be sending our best players on long trip overseas and then expecting them to perform 2 days later in the PL.

Our defence would have improved over the previous season had it not been for the whole team going AWOL over the last few matches. Had we still been in competition for 4th I'm sure that we would have finished with low 40s conceded and not 50 again. With Clyne, Gomez and Flanno (back in January) we have definitely improved the wide areas, unlike Mark I think Sakho is going to be excellent, he's half way there now and this season, hopefully without injury and played as the regular partner to Skrtel, should prove that. I prefer Toure to Lovren as back-up.

For me the biggest issue is the most defensive midfield slot (I hesitate to call it DM under Rodgers). Can is unproven and Lucas hot and cold and neither are spectacular passers. Allen simply not good enough. With Can a lot of people want to see him given a chance there, even though he is virtually a total virgin as a DM, and those same people would be moaning and groaning and calling for Rodgers's head if was he played there from the off and we ended up losing all of those early season big away matches. For me he needs to be more disciplined as he often surges forward and ends up giving away possession because he fails to off-load it when he should. That position worries me a lot, a pity Rossiter missed virtually the whole of last year injured otherwise he may have made enough progressive to nail it down.
 
I'm happy that we'll Skrtel will be able to hoof the fucking thing out instead of twatting about with it and getting into trouble.

Everyone who played us last season pressed us back towards our goal all match because we had no outlet. Now we do, we might be able to dictate where the game is played.
 
It looks to me from pre-season that we are setting up in a diamond 4-1-2-1-2 as in a flat back 4; holding midfielder; Henderson & Milner in the centre box-to-box; roving attacking midfielder; and 2 strikers, one dropping off.

We've not seen the key players in this formation yet but I imagine it will be : Mignolet ; Clyne/Skrtel/Sakho/Moreno ; Can ; Henderson & Milner ; Coutinho ; Firmino/Benteke.

Lovren (for Sakho) ; Gomes (for Moreno) ; Lucas or Allen (for Can) ; Lallana (for Coutinho) ; and Ings or Ibe or Sturridge (for Firmino) ; and Sturridge or Origi (for Benteke) are other options in that system.

It doesn't give us much width unless Ibe is in the side, so it depends on the 2 full backs getting forward.

If Can steps up and Firmino/Benteke click then we could become a seriously good side but at the top level, I think we will still leak goals and cough up possession too easily with the players at our disposal.
 
We could argue that three of them either didn't cut it or weren't ready last season, so essentially I'm guessing that Coutinho and Firmino will play the majority of games with the other three pushing for places. I still think people are expecting Firmino to be a playmaker when he looks more than capable of playing as a wide forward. In that respect I'd expect Coutinho to be one of the three in midfield (the top of the triangle) with Firmino a wide forward alongside Benteke +1, out of Ibe and Lallana. Markovic will have his work cut out, but will provide back up for the three/four attacking roles alongside Ings and Origi. It is top heavy but we're never without our injury problems, etc. So...

Firmino is probably capable of playing on the wing, but he's made the name for himself in Hoffenheim playing in the middle, as a #10 or secondary striker. That's probably his best position. I don't think that puts him in competition with Coutinho – Rodgers prefers Phil playing deeper, more on an Iniesta type.
 
It looks to me from pre-season that we are setting up in a diamond 4-1-2-1-2 as in a flat back 4; holding midfielder; Henderson & Milner in the centre box-to-box; roving attacking midfielder; and 2 strikers, one dropping off.

We've not seen the key players in this formation yet but I imagine it will be : Mignolet ; Clyne/Skrtel/Sakho/Moreno ; Can ; Henderson & Milner ; Coutinho ; Firmino/Benteke.

Lovren (for Sakho) ; Gomes (for Moreno) ; Lucas or Allen (for Can) ; Lallana (for Coutinho) ; and Ings or Ibe or Sturridge (for Firmino) ; and Sturridge or Origi (for Benteke) are other options in that system.

It doesn't give us much width unless Ibe is in the side, so it depends on the 2 full backs getting forward.

If Can steps up and Firmino/Benteke click then we could become a seriously good side but at the top level, I think we will still leak goals and cough up possession too easily with the players at our disposal.

Interesting post and I agree with a fair bit of it, but Can at DM worries me. He did OK at centre-back for a while, but I don't reckon his main strengths lie in defensive areas and I foresee problems if we're relying on him to do that kind of job indefinitely. If that 4-1-2-1-2 line-up *is* how Rodgers is going to set us up next season, IMO we've missed a trick by not recruiting someone better suited to the role at the base of the MF diamond.
 
I reckon he's bought him as he's taken one look at Origi and Ings and thought 'why've I bought them?'
 
Our squad looks very top heavy and seems to present more questions than answers, which is worrying given our predilection for posshibilities and randomizing our system / tactics throughout the season.

What happens if Sturridge ever gets his shit together for more than a couple months? Does he play out wide? Does Benteke drop to the bench?

Ings and Origi are both young and from what I've seen neither look suited (yet) to playing up front on their own for a team like ours even if it is in the lesser competitions. Do they play as wide forwards (more of an issue for Ings than Origi) thus sacrificing the game time and development of our attacking midfielders or do we change the formation thus sacrificing consistency?

Where does Firmino fit into the picture with Coutinho, Lallana, Ibe and the seemingly forgotten man, Markovic?


All fair questions in theory, but then doesn't the same happen at every one of our rivals? Wasn't this our problem last year when we had to stick Sterling up front? - We had zero options to choose from.

So, let's assume you play with 5 attacking players in your side, inclusive of mid/attacking mids/striker, right? And let's look at our rivals options:

Arsenal: Giroud, Walcott, Cazorla, Ozil, Welbeck, Ramsey, Oxlade Chamberlain, Rosicky, Sanchez. That's 9, every one of them with legitimate rights to get into the 4. I haven't even counted Rosicky, Wilshere (mid), and their other little attacking mids.

Chelsea: Let's assume Costa starts when fit. That leaves 3 spots behind him cos Mourinho never plays with more than 4 attacking players. Who out of Falcao, Hazard, Willian, Oscar, Remy, Fabregas, and Cuadrado play in the 3? Not to mention Loftus-Cheek and Salah, the former of which Mourinho is promising games.

City: Let's assume Aguero starts. That's a fucking certainty. And Silva will play, we know that. So you've max 3 other spots and you know Yaya Toure is taking one of them. Down to 2 now. And he's got Nasri, Sterling, Navas, Dzeko, Bony, Jovetic, and Delph. 7 into 2 doesn't go.

Rooney's gonna start up front at United, supported by whom in the 3 attacking mid spots? Herrera, Mata, Depay, Young, Fellaini, and as Van Gaal claims there's another one coming to add to that list once Di Maria goes.

Anyway, you get my point. You need to oversubscribe in this area, for these reasons:
- Cunts get injured and suspended.
- Shit doesn't work out like you'd planned. Did anyone think Van Persie would sit on the pine while James Wilson plays?
- Signings don't work. Falcao.
- Form.
- Formations. Costa can only play in a one up top, Dzeko can only cut it in a 4-4-2. Different folks for different strokes.

So assuming we play 4-3-3, which pre-seaosn tells us we will, that gives you 4 attacking spots on the side, cos Hendo, Milner and maybe Lucas are playing every week. Definitely Hendo and Milner anyway, and we may invert and go 2 deep and 1 advanced in the midfield 3 rather than Lucas on his own.

So that gives you 4 spots, one of which you'd fucking imagine barring injury is Coutinho's right? All of a sudden you're down to 3 spots and you've got Benteke, Firmino, Lallana, Ibe, Ings, Markovic, Origi, and then hey fucking presto Daniel Sturridge gets fit outta fucking nowhere. 8 into 3. And are you gonna be the guy who tells Sturridge he's not playing? Pfft. 7 into 2.

So I've well and truly shoe-horned my point home.

Here's my conclusion:

- You need options. Sheringham and Solksjaer off the bench to win you a champions league. Bang.
- You need outright sheer quality. Doesn't matter what fucking competition for places there is for the likes of Aguero does there? He'll be fucking starting regardless cos he doesn't give a fuck who else there is. This is where we come up short.
- First 11's are well and truly fucking pointless. Have we established that yet?
- I do not for the life of me see what rodgers is gonna do with Sturridge and Benteke fit. I can't even work it out in theory, so fuck knows how Rodgers see's this panning out in reality. Hope is not a strategy Brendan.
 
Chelsea: Let's assume Costa starts when fit. That leaves 3 spots behind him cos Mourinho never plays with more than 4 attacking players. Who out of Falcao (CLEAR SECOND CHOICE), Hazard (ALWAYS STARTS), Willian(ALWAYS STARTS), Oscar(ALWAYS STARTS), Remy(SOLD OR BENCH), Fabregas(ALWAYS STARTS in CM), and Cuadrado (BENCH) play in the 3? Not to mention Loftus-Cheek (DM) and Salah (BENCH OR SOLD), the former of which Mourinho is promising games.

You should have left them out. Chelsea is the exception. And ho hum, they won the league. With Costa, Hazard, Willian, Oscar, Fabregas and Matic almost always starting when available.
 
You're right. And none of them ever get injured ur suspended either.

If that ever were to happen, they'd probably just play with 9 or 10 men.
 
You're right. And none of them ever get injured ur suspended either.

If that ever were to happen, they'd probably just play with 9 or 10 men.

You were making the point that its okay to have way more quality than the number of starting positions in a team and to have competition for places. Well that just isn't the case for Chelsea. They have a Best XI. Anyone besides those 11 players starting is simply a step down because they were forced into the change for some reason. It's okay to be wrong. Just a pity it comes so soon after @peterhague pointed this out to you.
 
I don't think Oscar always starts by the way. Towards the end of his season (before he got injured - and before the title was won I think), he was a sub for a number of games, and an unused sub in another. I think Ramires switched with Oscar, so I suppose it depends on whether Mourinho fancies more frenzied bite in midfield or more flair mixed with workrate.
 
All fair questions in theory, but then doesn't the same happen at every one of our rivals? Wasn't this our problem last year when we had to stick Sterling up front? - We had zero options to choose from.

So, let's assume you play with 5 attacking players in your side, inclusive of mid/attacking mids/striker, right? And let's look at our rivals options:

Arsenal: Giroud, Walcott, Cazorla, Ozil, Welbeck, Ramsey, Oxlade Chamberlain, Rosicky, Sanchez. That's 9, every one of them with legitimate rights to get into the 4. I haven't even counted Rosicky, Wilshere (mid), and their other little attacking mids.

Chelsea: Let's assume Costa starts when fit. That leaves 3 spots behind him cos Mourinho never plays with more than 4 attacking players. Who out of Falcao, Hazard, Willian, Oscar, Remy, Fabregas, and Cuadrado play in the 3? Not to mention Loftus-Cheek and Salah, the former of which Mourinho is promising games.

City: Let's assume Aguero starts. That's a fucking certainty. And Silva will play, we know that. So you've max 3 other spots and you know Yaya Toure is taking one of them. Down to 2 now. And he's got Nasri, Sterling, Navas, Dzeko, Bony, Jovetic, and Delph. 7 into 2 doesn't go.

Rooney's gonna start up front at United, supported by whom in the 3 attacking mid spots? Herrera, Mata, Depay, Young, Fellaini, and as Van Gaal claims there's another one coming to add to that list once Di Maria goes.

Anyway, you get my point. You need to oversubscribe in this area, for these reasons:
- Cunts get injured and suspended.
- Shit doesn't work out like you'd planned. Did anyone think Van Persie would sit on the pine while James Wilson plays?
- Signings don't work. Falcao.
- Form.
- Formations. Costa can only play in a one up top, Dzeko can only cut it in a 4-4-2. Different folks for different strokes.

So assuming we play 4-3-3, which pre-seaosn tells us we will, that gives you 4 attacking spots on the side, cos Hendo, Milner and maybe Lucas are playing every week. Definitely Hendo and Milner anyway, and we may invert and go 2 deep and 1 advanced in the midfield 3 rather than Lucas on his own.

So that gives you 4 spots, one of which you'd fucking imagine barring injury is Coutinho's right? All of a sudden you're down to 3 spots and you've got Benteke, Firmino, Lallana, Ibe, Ings, Markovic, Origi, and then hey fucking presto Daniel Sturridge gets fit outta fucking nowhere. 8 into 3. And are you gonna be the guy who tells Sturridge he's not playing? Pfft. 7 into 2.

So I've well and truly shoe-horned my point home.

Here's my conclusion:

- You need options. Sheringham and Solksjaer off the bench to win you a champions league. Bang.
- You need outright sheer quality. Doesn't matter what fucking competition for places there is for the likes of Aguero does there? He'll be fucking starting regardless cos he doesn't give a fuck who else there is. This is where we come up short.
- First 11's are well and truly fucking pointless. Have we established that yet?
- I do not for the life of me see what rodgers is gonna do with Sturridge and Benteke fit. I can't even work it out in theory, so fuck knows how Rodgers see's this panning out in reality. Hope is not a strategy Brendan.

So you're sayin aguero's in city's first eleven?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom