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sack Rafa

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Liverpool's traditional January crisis has momentum this year. Perhaps this is because it follows on so swiftly from their December crisis which had been directly prefaced by a November crisis that in itself was merely an extension of the October crisis which would not have come about except for their September crisis simply being a continuation of their August crisis that was merely a hangover from their close season debacle.

For much of last season they were in crisis too, even for the long periods when they were top of the league. During those troubling times it was generally agreed that Rafael Benitez must be doing something right, although nobody could agree on exactly what it was.

The best they could often come up with was the signing of Javier Mascherano. He deserved no credit for signing Fernando Torres. That was a no-brainer, except for all the smart men who didn't sign him.

Winning matches was then at least a part of it, but there has always been a great reluctance to give Benitez credit for that, with the view often being that he won the wrong ones.

He didn't understand the English game, they said, as he went on to win the European Cup, perhaps giving the fans their finest moment in Liverpool memory, something they have, much to the displeasure of the media, been reluctant to forget about ever since. Last season, Liverpool challenged for the title, performing as well as they had in 20 years, beating the teams they were supposed to beat.

Now that Liverpool have stopped winning matches, there is no reason to search desperately for reasons to praise Benitez. Liverpool are a team designed for knockIf -out competitions and now they have lost the main feature of teams designed to win knock-out competitions: the ability to win matches.

For some perspective out of the reach of the phone-in callers who wonder why Peter Crouch is not playing for Liverpool (Crouch turned down a new contract at Liverpool so it would be an egregious breach of employment law if they continued to select him now) or suggest David Bentley as the missing link, it is worth revisiting Liverpool's January crisis from last season.

There were a number of reasons to criticise Benitez last January, but the main one was his treatment of Robbie Keane who, according to the critics, hadn't been given a chance. Keane started nearly every league game during his time at Liverpool but, again, that didn't matter. Keane rarely starts for Tottenham but that is understandable because Peter Crouch and Jermain Defoe are untouchable. If he leaves White Hart Lane, nobody would see it as a failure of Harry Redknapp's famed man-management skills.

In some ways, it is the same this season. Liverpool have had a poor time, but, in the context of this crazy season, only the exit from the Champions League has been truly damaging. The FA Cup remains an irrelevance and would have been ignored by those who now stress its importance if Liverpool had won it.

The crazies have been bolstered by comments from ex-players like Ronnie Whelan. In the devalued currencies of punditry, Whelan is the Zimbabwean dollar, but he found a few places where his money was good last week.

As the phone-in callers deal in the superficial, it is worth contrasting the praise handed out to Alex Ferguson last week, when it became known that he was acting under some severe financial constraints, with the treatment of Benitez. Despite starting with a number of advantages like a massive stadium and a team used to winning titles, United are now utterly dependent on Wayne Rooney. Liverpool, at least, are utterly dependent on two players.

Benitez has never known a day at Anfield when the club wasn't being spectacularly badly run. Since the sale to Hicks and Gillett, the problems shared have become problems doubled.

Last week, Liverpool's new owners were again giving an indication of how far they had sunk when Tom Hicks Jr resigned after telling a fan in an email to "blow me, f**k face, go to hell, I'm sick of you."

This was pithy and to the point but, in the age of outrage, it understandably provoked a lot of anger among Liverpool fans. It did not change their fundamental position on any member of the Hicks family. They wanted them out beforehand and they wanted them out afterwards. Hicks' wild email made no difference and, it has become so normal, that nobody even wonders about the disruption to the team.

Nothing that Benitez achieves seems to change the view that Liverpool are in crisis. So this season seems to be a continuation of the bad years, bad years when Benitez was winning against all odds.

He has made a few mistakes. Perhaps he should not have talked about Liverpool's debt to such a degree as it has undermined the club and, in constantly looking to re-sign Emile Heskey, he has looked like being the first employee who instigates his own constructive dismissal.

He is probably too far gone now. The forces he tried to take on, the media he treated with contempt in particular, create their own momentum and affect confidence. Liverpool are a complex, dysfunctional club and they judge Benitez on the superficial to the end.

Liverpool have been talking about their disappointing season since they lost to Aston Villa in August. The reality is that only in recent weeks has the league title become virtually impossible but I would guess privately Benitez hasn't ruled it out.

Benitez remains true to a value system that he has employed since he arrived. On Wednesday night, once more he refused to engage and, once more, it was another reason to criticise him. The presenters, the reporters and the phone-in callers all seemed to assume they were more upset about the defeat to Reading than Benitez. In their world, so free of compassion, perspective and insight, they were probably right. In the real world, they were, as so often, wrong.

So I hope he stays true to his code as they hound him from the job. He has been a resounding success but it may be time to walk away. He deserves more than the contempt of pundits like Whelan. Benitez cares too much. He should address those who have stacked the odds against him and, one last time, tell the truth in language they might understand: "Blow me, f**k face. Go to hell, I'm sick of you."
 
The author of the piece isn't credited but I suspect it is by Dion Fanning, who I assume is a red having written many favourable articles on us before. He likes Rafa too, in case you hadn't noticed.
 
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

I was told this, I text Andy it the other day.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

Press conference been called?
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

what happened with Stevie?
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=38437.msg1036670#msg1036670 date=1263772501]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

what happened with Stevie?
[/quote]

Him and Rafa reportedly had a tiff at HT, which Purslow had to sort out.
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=38437.msg1036674#msg1036674 date=1263772708]
[quote author=the count link=topic=38437.msg1036670#msg1036670 date=1263772501]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

what happened with Stevie?
[/quote]

Him and Rafa reportedly had a tiff at HT, which Purslow had to sort out.
[/quote]

cheers. Nobody tells me anything 🙁
 
It's cos you're a squealer.

url]
 
[quote author=the count link=topic=38437.msg1036670#msg1036670 date=1263772501]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

what happened with Stevie?
[/quote]

It's being said that he had a bust up with Pellegrino at HT during the Reading game. Some saying he refused to go out afterwards, others that rafa suspended him on the spot. Apparently Reina got involved & was arguing with Sammy Lee, Stevie's said he wont play for Rafa.

Mickey Quinn then came on TalkSport today & said he'd been told this by a club insider. Someone else ran the story later in the day, repeating what I said above, only not mentioned Reina, & the club contacted them & said, & I quote: 'we categorically deny Steven Gerrard has been suspended'.
 
[quote author=refugee link=topic=38437.msg1036653#msg1036653 date=1263770082]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1036652#msg1036652 date=1263769904]
Who wrote that please Skully?
[/quote]

http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/if-liverpool-think-they-are-in-trouble-now-just-wait-until-rafa-walks-2017531.html
[/quote]

Maybe I am just tired, but it did not seem very coherent , it is obviously written too sarcastically for simple old me, besides the subject matter being mainly bollocks.

regards
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036683#msg1036683 date=1263773760]
[quote author=the count link=topic=38437.msg1036670#msg1036670 date=1263772501]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

what happened with Stevie?
[/quote]

It's being said that he had a bust up with Pellegrino at HT during the Reading game. Some saying he refused to go out afterwards, others that rafa suspended him on the spot. Apparently Reina got involved & was arguing with Sammy Lee, Stevie's said he wont play for Rafa.

Mickey Quinn then came on TalkSport today & said he'd been told this by a club insider. Someone else ran the story later in the day, repeating what I said above, only not mentioned Reina, & the club contacted them & said, & I quote: 'we categorically deny Steven Gerrard has been suspended'.
[/quote]

I have had the same text from two completely unrelated sources.
There seems to be a lot of smoke around.
If there is any truth in it and the hierarchy are forced to chose between Stevie and Rafa , I wonder who's side they will come down on? In fact who would the supporters side with?

regards
 
Was it not because stevie was injured Ame didn't want to go out while pelle told him to go out anyway. causing the argument? not sure where i read that though
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036683#msg1036683 date=1263773760]

It's being said that he had a bust up with Pellegrino at HT during the Reading game. Some saying he refused to go out afterwards, others that rafa suspended him on the spot. Apparently Reina got involved & was arguing with Sammy Lee, Stevie's said he wont play for Rafa.

[/quote]

Rafa denied it (or more accurately played it down)
http://www.skysports.com/story/0,19528,11669_5866926,00.html

[quote author=skysports]
He also played down a reported dressing room spat between captain Steven Gerrardand coach Mauricio Pellegrino at half-time during last week's defeat against Reading.

He said: "There was nothing there, nothing."
[/quote]
 
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=38437.msg1036688#msg1036688 date=1263774294]
No player is bigger than the club.

Then again, neither is the manager.
[/quote]

Exactly so.
If Rafa was in a sound position there would be no contest in who to back, but he ain't.

regards
 
It was the club's denial to Talksport that got me interested. They only denied Stevie being suspended. Nothing else. that suggests to me there's some truth in it.

I dont mind them scrapping, I'd be fucked off if they werent at each others throats at times when were playing like this, it shows passion. But Stevie saying he wont play under Rafa pisses me off.

He doesnt play for Rafa, he plays for us. Someone needs to remind him, & each one of them that fact.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036692#msg1036692 date=1263774536]
It was the club's denial to Talksport that got me interested. They only denied Stevie being suspended. Nothing else. that suggests to me there's some truth in it.
[/quote]

Rafa would be absolutely mental to suspend Stevie, it would be similiar to the time Ruud Gullit feel out with Shearer and was sacked the next day.

[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036692#msg1036692 date=1263774536]
I dont mind them scrapping, I'd be fucked off if they werent at each others throats at times when were playing like this, it shows passion. But Stevie saying he wont play under Rafa pisses me off.
[/quote]

Did he say that though or is it just rumour?
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036692#msg1036692 date=1263774536]
It was the club's denial to Talksport that got me interested. They only denied Stevie being suspended. Nothing else. that suggests to me there's some truth in it.

I dont mind them scrapping, I'd be fucked off if they werent at each others throats at times when were playing like this, it shows passion. But Stevie saying he wont play under Rafa pisses me off.

He doesnt play for Rafa, he plays for us. Someone needs to remind him, & each one of them that fact.
[/quote]

In fairness though he may have been as frustrated as the rest of us and if he sees something damaging the club , and the rest of his career, he might feel it's the only option left to him

regards
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036692#msg1036692 date=1263774536]
I dont mind them scrapping, I'd be fucked off if they werent at each others throats at times when were playing like this, it shows passion. But Stevie saying he wont play under Rafa pisses me off.

He doesnt play for Rafa, he plays for us. Someone needs to remind him, & each one of them that fact.
[/quote]

Why not we look at it this way. He play for anyone who can bring success to the club. If he see the manager is hindering this, then he has every right to stand up against it. Isn't this for the good of our club ?

To summarize, he play for a manager who bring success to the club.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036692#msg1036692 date=1263774536]
It was the club's denial to Talksport that got me interested. They only denied Stevie being suspended. Nothing else. that suggests to me there's some truth in it.

I dont mind them scrapping, I'd be fucked off if they werent at each others throats at times when were playing like this, it shows passion. But Stevie saying he wont play under Rafa pisses me off.

He doesnt play for Rafa, he plays for us. Someone needs to remind him, & each one of them that fact.
[/quote]

Absolutely fucking right.
 
Either way I think as Captain of this club Stevie has a right and obligation to stand up for what he believes is right or stand down as captain.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=38437.msg1036663#msg1036663 date=1263771795]
Rumours around that Rafa's due to get the boot tomorrow.

Not from the same person who let it be known about the half time incident with Stevie I may add.
[/quote]

Heard the same myself.
 
Rafa Benítez deserves the chance to overachieve with Liverpool again
It is always hard to tell much from Rafael Benitez's manner, so guarded is he in public, but those who see a dead man walking must have felt a burst of schadenfreude when he emerged for his Friday press conference clutching his notes.

By Duncan White
Published: 4:37PM GMT 16 Jan 2010

Top manager: Duncan White says Rafa Benitez (above) has already worked miracles at Anfield Photo: EPA
A Nixon-style resignation speech? No, a Clinton-style apology.

That simple assumption of responsibility, that simple act of modest contrition, punctured some of the mounting hysteria and bloodlust.


This is a man who is not doing his job very well, a man who used to do his job very well indeed less than a year ago. Is it entirely heretical to suggest that Benítez might deserve a chance to put right the mess he has made of this season?

This kind of hysteria is ultimately driven by results, but they have been bad for a while. Suddenly we have reached the tipping point.

The ex-players are wheeled out to pronounce the death sentence but, when it comes to running a multi-million pound football club, do they have credibility? Ronnie Whelan has not managed for eight years but when he did it was Southend and some clubs in Cyprus and Greece. Jason McAteer? He was sacked as John Barnes' assistant at Tranmere this season. Not exactly judges with gravitas.

What about the supporters? There has been fierce loyalty to Benítez at Anfield over the years, especially when he has taken on Tom Hicks and George Gillett. Now a significant portion of the support has turned on Benítez.

It is easy to pour empty flattery on to Liverpool fans, but really they are not much different to football fans the country over. More active than many in taking a direct interest in how the club is run on every level, sure, but still prone to shouting one thing at the final whistle and thinking another when reflecting in the pub.

The mentality of the pack, the mass, the herd develops its own momentum and, from the outside, it is hard to see Benítez surviving beyond the end of the season. This is a real pity because Benítez – eccentric, political, stubborn and vindictive as he can be – is a man who has been overachieving ever since he arrived at Anfield.

Take this rather imperfect analogy: Benítez as a Formula 1 driver. He comes in and starts driving for a team that has a resonant name, a history full of great deeds, fresh memories of famous victories. The problem is, the car isn't good enough. The owner's not putting the money in, the marketing guys can't get the lucrative sponsorship deals and the engineers are complacent.

Still, Benítez drives out of his skin. Race after race, he squeezes every last bit of juice out of this failing car and delivers some famous victories. Then, bang, he loses it. Perhaps it was the persistent technical disasters, that prompted it, but suddenly he is suffused with self doubt: he can't pick the racing line, he breaks too early or too late. He's struggling just to finish, let alone compete.

Now what do you do? Fire the driver? The car is still worse than its rivals – worse and getting worse. For one bad season in which he has failed to overachieve again? You need a special combination of ambition and patience to succeed driving in this team – a combination that is rare enough.

For a start, Liverpool will not sack Benítez before the end of the season (barring open player revolt or a truly comical series of results). Who next? Jose Mourinho? Guus Hiddink? Great drivers but are they going to risk their reputation getting into this car, with its huge expectation but poor performance?

The silver in the trophy cabinet can skew your perspective of a football club. If you are brutally objective about Liverpool, they look like a club equipped for the 20th century not the 21st. Compare them to one of their potential usurpers in the top four, Tottenham Hotspur, who they host at Anfield on Wednesday. It's not a flattering one.

Spurs have not won an away game against the big four since they won in the League Cup at Anfield in November 1998 – that's no away win in 65 attempts. Historically, Liverpool are the superior club. But you look at the future and there is only one club pointing in remotely the right direction.

Tottenham turned a profit last year. The diggers are in at their new training ground at Bulls Cross in Enfield, which will be one of the very best in the world. Planning permission is in for a new 60,000 stadium – the only significant debt the club will take on will be directly linked to the stadium.

If the success of Arsenal's move to the Emirates (the corporate dollar pays: 20 per cent of supporters generate 80 per cent of the earnings) is any guide, Spurs will be able to service that debt with ease.

Liverpool's huge interest payments means that their parent company made a £42.6 million loss in the last financial year. The new stadium in Stanley Park was supposed to be finished by 2012 but remains in limbo, waiting for global economic recovery.

Their debt stands at £240 million but without a hike in match day or commercial revenue, or substantial outside investment, they will spend all profits servicing it, rather than playing catch up on the field. To get Liverpool pointing in the right direction, Christian Purslow, the chief executive, has to turn a tanker in a canal.

On the pitch, Spurs have a squad full of young hungry internationals with a high market value. Even more importantly, they have some of the most promising academy players in the country: John Bostock, Dean Parrett, Andros Townsend and Ryan Mason should all break into the first team in the next few years.

Liverpool have three world class players (Gerrard, Reina, Torres) and a motley crew of the not-quite-first-rate and the definitely-second-rate. The academy has not produced a player deemed fit for Liverpool since Gerrard and seemingly will not any time soon.

Benítez has certainly been one of the main architects of this season's eyesore, but he is also responsible for the construction of some of this club's finest recent monuments.

Dealing with controversial owners and dwindling revenues, Benítez has proved he can get this club punching above its weight. He deserves another round, a chance to put right the mistakes he has made.
 
If it is true then gerrard should be fined, stripped of the captaincy, and stop playing like a twat.

We're turning into fucking newcastle.
 
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