Haha you should be manager, "Stop playing like twats!", "Ok boss". Hmm maybe nobodies tried it yet.
Your right we are turning into Newcastle.
Your right we are turning into Newcastle.
sack Rafa
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[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38437.msg1036774#msg1036774 date=1263796857]
If it is true then gerrard should be fined, stripped of the captaincy, and stop playing like a twat.
We're turning into fucking newcastle.
[/quote]
I can definitely sympathise with both parties on this. No player is bigger than the club, and Gerrard's body language has been dire all season, maybe he's disheartened by injury, but he could have pulled his finger out more (and yeah, I know how much he's given us). By the same token though, he's a fan and he's stayed on the premise that he wanted to win things with us and on the understanding that we're heading in the right direction.
I do think Rafa's fucked us up, but I do think we've had more than our share of shit luck this season, and that's where Rafa's failings in the transfer market have come back to haunt us.
Securing the future of Gerrard is paramount to the clubs success, I'd have thought. Rafa right now doesn't really have a leg to stand on. It's not a case of one or the other, but only one of the them has been consistent to what success we've had.
If it is true then gerrard should be fined, stripped of the captaincy, and stop playing like a twat.
We're turning into fucking newcastle.
[/quote]
I can definitely sympathise with both parties on this. No player is bigger than the club, and Gerrard's body language has been dire all season, maybe he's disheartened by injury, but he could have pulled his finger out more (and yeah, I know how much he's given us). By the same token though, he's a fan and he's stayed on the premise that he wanted to win things with us and on the understanding that we're heading in the right direction.
I do think Rafa's fucked us up, but I do think we've had more than our share of shit luck this season, and that's where Rafa's failings in the transfer market have come back to haunt us.
Securing the future of Gerrard is paramount to the clubs success, I'd have thought. Rafa right now doesn't really have a leg to stand on. It's not a case of one or the other, but only one of the them has been consistent to what success we've had.
I've been disgusted with Gerrard on a number of occasions this season - which is quite something for me to say as I'm a bit of a fanboy - but even so, I wouldn't go quite as far as some people on this thread saying he should be stripped of his captaincy and all that crazy talk.
There are just too many things going on behind the scenes and the guy has not looked right in terms of fitness ever since he came back. We know the sacrifice Torres is making to stay available for the team - I'd like to know more about Gerrard's position before I make all kinds of judgements.
There are just too many things going on behind the scenes and the guy has not looked right in terms of fitness ever since he came back. We know the sacrifice Torres is making to stay available for the team - I'd like to know more about Gerrard's position before I make all kinds of judgements.
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036790#msg1036790 date=1263802352]
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
[/quote]
In the last three games in the league we've won two (one away against one of our nearest rivals) and drawed one.
Would make little sense to at least not give him a chance to continue this decent run. A win against Spurs and we'd be right back the race for fourth despite our abysmal Season so far.
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
[/quote]
In the last three games in the league we've won two (one away against one of our nearest rivals) and drawed one.
Would make little sense to at least not give him a chance to continue this decent run. A win against Spurs and we'd be right back the race for fourth despite our abysmal Season so far.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1036893#msg1036893 date=1263812832]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036790#msg1036790 date=1263802352]
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
[/quote]
In the last three games in the league we've won two (one away against one of our nearest rivals) and drawed one.
Would make little sense to at least not give him a chance to continue this decent run. A win against Spurs and we'd be right back the race for fourth despite our abysmal Season so far.
[/quote]
Ha. Conveniently forgetting the total humiliation of losing at home in the FA Cup to a team bottom of the Championship, thus depriving us of the chance to win a single domestic trophy this season.
Your ability to look on the bright side rivals that bloke singing on the cross in Life of Brian.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036790#msg1036790 date=1263802352]
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
[/quote]
In the last three games in the league we've won two (one away against one of our nearest rivals) and drawed one.
Would make little sense to at least not give him a chance to continue this decent run. A win against Spurs and we'd be right back the race for fourth despite our abysmal Season so far.
[/quote]
Ha. Conveniently forgetting the total humiliation of losing at home in the FA Cup to a team bottom of the Championship, thus depriving us of the chance to win a single domestic trophy this season.
Your ability to look on the bright side rivals that bloke singing on the cross in Life of Brian.
The race for fourth.....says it all really. Finished 2nd last year and looked the best footballing side in the country at times. Failed to build on that and now, in January, we're grasping for the "race for fourth". WHat a shocking and depressing downturn it is. It needs addressing and it needs addressing now.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036899#msg1036899 date=1263813248]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1036893#msg1036893 date=1263812832]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036790#msg1036790 date=1263802352]
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
[/quote]
In the last three games in the league we've won two (one away against one of our nearest rivals) and drawed one.
Would make little sense to at least not give him a chance to continue this decent run. A win against Spurs and we'd be right back the race for fourth despite our abysmal Season so far.
[/quote]
Ha. Conveniently forgetting the total humiliation of losing at home in the FA Cup to a team bottom of the Championship, thus depriving us of the chance to win a single domestic trophy this season.
Your ability to look on the bright side rivals that bloke singing on the cross in Life of Brian.
[/quote]
Don't get me wrong I'm extremely sadened, livid and football-depressed by our current run, I almost considered killing the telly after Stokes last goal in the weekend, but I just don't think now is the time to sack Rafa. It's the league that matter the most to me. And the players too obviously judging by their performance in the weekend against Stoke showing so much more gut and determination than versus Reading.
If we loose against Spurs then it's a different scenario. But a win will after all bring us back into the mix whether you like or not.
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1036893#msg1036893 date=1263812832]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036790#msg1036790 date=1263802352]
Thirty-four pages on, and I still think it all comes down to the thread title.
Just fucking get rid of him now before the rats flee and our ship sinks.
[/quote]
In the last three games in the league we've won two (one away against one of our nearest rivals) and drawed one.
Would make little sense to at least not give him a chance to continue this decent run. A win against Spurs and we'd be right back the race for fourth despite our abysmal Season so far.
[/quote]
Ha. Conveniently forgetting the total humiliation of losing at home in the FA Cup to a team bottom of the Championship, thus depriving us of the chance to win a single domestic trophy this season.
Your ability to look on the bright side rivals that bloke singing on the cross in Life of Brian.
[/quote]
Don't get me wrong I'm extremely sadened, livid and football-depressed by our current run, I almost considered killing the telly after Stokes last goal in the weekend, but I just don't think now is the time to sack Rafa. It's the league that matter the most to me. And the players too obviously judging by their performance in the weekend against Stoke showing so much more gut and determination than versus Reading.
If we loose against Spurs then it's a different scenario. But a win will after all bring us back into the mix whether you like or not.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1036902#msg1036902 date=1263813372]
The race for fourth.....says it all really. Finished 2nd last year and looked the best footballing side in the country at times. Failed to build on that and now, in January, we're grasping for the "race for fourth". WHat a shocking and depressing downturn it is. It needs addressing and it needs addressing now.
[/quote]
Simply can't disagree with any of that.
But as you can't play Torres, Gerrard, Johnson, Riera, Aquilani, Agger, Kelly, Masher, Benayoun and Aurelio whenever they are injured what would you've done?
I don't think it's the manager at this right instance that needs addressing as the Reserves at least responded very well at Stokes in the weekend. A win over Spurs (I kind of see this game in the same light as the Milan game back in 2005) and things COULD turn into our favour for the rest of the Season.
P
L
E
A
S
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The race for fourth.....says it all really. Finished 2nd last year and looked the best footballing side in the country at times. Failed to build on that and now, in January, we're grasping for the "race for fourth". WHat a shocking and depressing downturn it is. It needs addressing and it needs addressing now.
[/quote]
Simply can't disagree with any of that.
But as you can't play Torres, Gerrard, Johnson, Riera, Aquilani, Agger, Kelly, Masher, Benayoun and Aurelio whenever they are injured what would you've done?
I don't think it's the manager at this right instance that needs addressing as the Reserves at least responded very well at Stokes in the weekend. A win over Spurs (I kind of see this game in the same light as the Milan game back in 2005) and things COULD turn into our favour for the rest of the Season.
P
L
E
A
S
E
No. You can't play players when they're injured but you should have a squad capable of handling injuries and the club and Rafa simply haven't built one. I don't hold Benitez fully to blame but he has to take part of it. He also is responsible for motivating the players we have available and that hasn't happened. I personally think the Gerarrd rumours are bollocks and, as club captain, he should be standing up and be counted. If he's fighting with anyone (which I doubt) it should the the players around him because some of them are in need of a good wake-up slap.
I admire your optimism KHL, I really do but you're pinning your hopes of Rafa being retained on the chase for fourth place - which is a completely unacceptable goal for us - especially so early in the season. It's also based on the idea we may beat Spurs. Where I really struggle with this is this: What, given our performances, this season makes you think we're capable of beating Spurs ? I don't see anything at all at the moment. It's true one game can change a clubs fortunes but sometimes an element of luck is needed also. And Lady Luck seems to have completely deserted us at the moment as well.
In essence, nothing bodes well for me. Nothing. I see very little light on the horizon and that's extremely worrying.
I admire your optimism KHL, I really do but you're pinning your hopes of Rafa being retained on the chase for fourth place - which is a completely unacceptable goal for us - especially so early in the season. It's also based on the idea we may beat Spurs. Where I really struggle with this is this: What, given our performances, this season makes you think we're capable of beating Spurs ? I don't see anything at all at the moment. It's true one game can change a clubs fortunes but sometimes an element of luck is needed also. And Lady Luck seems to have completely deserted us at the moment as well.
In essence, nothing bodes well for me. Nothing. I see very little light on the horizon and that's extremely worrying.
T
the_khl
Guest
If we loose to Spurs I'm probably going to give up on my final hope of recovery.
But as we've actually showed gut and determination against Villa and Stoke of late I'm still hoping for us to turn it around.
It's not like Spurs is setting the world a light at this point either. Having recently drawed and lost at home to the likes of Hull and Wolves aren't exactly awe-inspiring.
But as we've actually showed gut and determination against Villa and Stoke of late I'm still hoping for us to turn it around.
It's not like Spurs is setting the world a light at this point either. Having recently drawed and lost at home to the likes of Hull and Wolves aren't exactly awe-inspiring.
I can't believe people on here want to see Rafa stay but see Gerrard stripped of his captaincy.
Gerrard has played most of the season whilst carrying an injury, for a start. On top of that, he finds himself hitting 30 surrounded by utter shit and being managed by someone who seems to have lost his way. Of course he's gonna feel a little dejected. I, as would most others on here, would feel the same.
Gerrard has played most of the season whilst carrying an injury, for a start. On top of that, he finds himself hitting 30 surrounded by utter shit and being managed by someone who seems to have lost his way. Of course he's gonna feel a little dejected. I, as would most others on here, would feel the same.
T
the_khl
Guest
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38437.msg1036930#msg1036930 date=1263816512]
I can't believe people on here want to see Rafa stay but see Gerrard stripped of his captaincy.
Gerrard has played most of the season whilst carrying an injury, for a start. On top of that, he finds himself hitting 30 surrounded by utter shit and being managed by someone who seems to have lost his way. Of course he's gonna feel a little dejected. I, as would most others on here, would feel the same.
[/quote]
He's surrounded by more or less the same players as last year isn't he? They are just all injured as well.
Through the wise words of Albert, the Butler;
Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again
Gerrard's got work to do. No excuses.
(Apart from him beeing injured obviously).
I can't believe people on here want to see Rafa stay but see Gerrard stripped of his captaincy.
Gerrard has played most of the season whilst carrying an injury, for a start. On top of that, he finds himself hitting 30 surrounded by utter shit and being managed by someone who seems to have lost his way. Of course he's gonna feel a little dejected. I, as would most others on here, would feel the same.
[/quote]
He's surrounded by more or less the same players as last year isn't he? They are just all injured as well.
Through the wise words of Albert, the Butler;
Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again
Gerrard's got work to do. No excuses.
(Apart from him beeing injured obviously).
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1036921#msg1036921 date=1263815366]
This one game will make or break our season I agree with that much. And probably Rafas tenure too
[/quote]
I should have said "recover our season from the pits of hell" rather than "make or break". "Make" implies it could be successful. It can't be
This one game will make or break our season I agree with that much. And probably Rafas tenure too
[/quote]
I should have said "recover our season from the pits of hell" rather than "make or break". "Make" implies it could be successful. It can't be
Even if we beat Spurs, I don't think Rafa is suddenly going to inspire confidence and belief in the players. And - if we are going to wait to the end of the season to decide - then even if we finish fourth, I still think he should be sacked. As was said about Houllier in his final season: fourth is a minimum requirement, not a goal to aim for.
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036950#msg1036950 date=1263818059]
Even if we beat Spurs, I don't think Rafa is suddenly going to inspire confidence and belief in the players. And - if we are going to wait to the end of the season to decide - then even if we finish fourth, I still think he should be sacked. As was said about Houllier in his final season: fourth is a minimum requirement, not a goal to aim for.
[/quote]
^^^^^
And there it is. What the floppy eared one says
Even if we beat Spurs, I don't think Rafa is suddenly going to inspire confidence and belief in the players. And - if we are going to wait to the end of the season to decide - then even if we finish fourth, I still think he should be sacked. As was said about Houllier in his final season: fourth is a minimum requirement, not a goal to aim for.
[/quote]
^^^^^
And there it is. What the floppy eared one says
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1036933#msg1036933 date=1263816755]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38437.msg1036930#msg1036930 date=1263816512]
I can't believe people on here want to see Rafa stay but see Gerrard stripped of his captaincy.
Gerrard has played most of the season whilst carrying an injury, for a start. On top of that, he finds himself hitting 30 surrounded by utter shit and being managed by someone who seems to have lost his way. Of course he's gonna feel a little dejected. I, as would most others on here, would feel the same.
[/quote]
He's surrounded by more or less the same players as last year isn't he? They are just all injured as well.
Through the wise words of Albert, the Butler;
Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again
Gerrard's got work to do. No excuses.
(Apart from him beeing injured obviously).
[/quote]
Last season papered the cracks. The reality is we have far too many players who aren't good enough. This season has adequately exposed that, it's plain for everyone to see.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38437.msg1036930#msg1036930 date=1263816512]
I can't believe people on here want to see Rafa stay but see Gerrard stripped of his captaincy.
Gerrard has played most of the season whilst carrying an injury, for a start. On top of that, he finds himself hitting 30 surrounded by utter shit and being managed by someone who seems to have lost his way. Of course he's gonna feel a little dejected. I, as would most others on here, would feel the same.
[/quote]
He's surrounded by more or less the same players as last year isn't he? They are just all injured as well.
Through the wise words of Albert, the Butler;
Why do we fall? So we can learn to pick ourselves back up again
Gerrard's got work to do. No excuses.
(Apart from him beeing injured obviously).
[/quote]
Last season papered the cracks. The reality is we have far too many players who aren't good enough. This season has adequately exposed that, it's plain for everyone to see.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1036956#msg1036956 date=1263818362]
Houllier didn't have the chavs and City to contend with.
[/quote]
So what? Our minimum requirement is now finishing mid-table?
Houllier didn't have the chavs and City to contend with.
[/quote]
So what? Our minimum requirement is now finishing mid-table?
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=38437.msg1036964#msg1036964 date=1263818712]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1036956#msg1036956 date=1263818362]
Houllier didn't have the chavs and City to contend with.
[/quote]
So what? Our minimum requirement is now finishing mid-table?
[/quote]
I didn't say that.
The fact is though that to get into the top 4 now, is a much more difficult task than it was whilst Houllier was here.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1036956#msg1036956 date=1263818362]
Houllier didn't have the chavs and City to contend with.
[/quote]
So what? Our minimum requirement is now finishing mid-table?
[/quote]
I didn't say that.
The fact is though that to get into the top 4 now, is a much more difficult task than it was whilst Houllier was here.
I take it he's not been sacked then...
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38437.msg1036961#msg1036961 date=1263818491]
Last season papered the cracks. The reality is we have far too many players who aren't good enough. This season has adequately exposed that, it's plain for everyone to see.
[/quote]
I slightly disagree Anita. We played some bloody good stuff last year and showed we could mix it with the best. The cracks were papered over in terms of squad depth though I agree there. We didn't replace Alonso and more importantly we never built on the squad we had. Alonso leaving is not the one single reason we've failed miserably it's a number of contributing factors
Last season papered the cracks. The reality is we have far too many players who aren't good enough. This season has adequately exposed that, it's plain for everyone to see.
[/quote]
I slightly disagree Anita. We played some bloody good stuff last year and showed we could mix it with the best. The cracks were papered over in terms of squad depth though I agree there. We didn't replace Alonso and more importantly we never built on the squad we had. Alonso leaving is not the one single reason we've failed miserably it's a number of contributing factors
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=38437.msg1037024#msg1037024 date=1263821228]
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38437.msg1036961#msg1036961 date=1263818491]
Last season papered the cracks. The reality is we have far too many players who aren't good enough. This season has adequately exposed that, it's plain for everyone to see.
[/quote]
I slightly disagree Anita. We played some bloody good stuff last year and showed we could mix it with the best. The cracks were papered over in terms of squad depth though I agree there. We didn't replace Alonso and more importantly we never built on the squad we had. Alonso leaving is not the one single reason we've failed miserably it's a number of contributing factors
[/quote]
Alonso leaving isn't the only reason, I agree. But it's a bloody major one. We haven't replaced him in the midfield. The middle of the park dictates the course of a game, without Alonso our midfield is limp. Having Alonso on CM also meant Gerrard had the freedom to concentrate on the offensive part of our game; a luxury he hasn't had this season. This meant our lack of depth in the final third, was manageable. And the attacking brilliant of Gerrard and Torres took the pressure off of our wide players and their lack of goals and ability.
That, coupled with the fact we had four or five world class players who were in top form last season, they dragged everyone's game up a gear.
A weak midfield exposes your defence and starves your strikers; that's what's happened to us this season. I'm not for a second suggesting Alonso is and was the only solution, but out failure to replace him has been a grave error with heartbreaking consequences.
[quote author=LadyRed link=topic=38437.msg1036961#msg1036961 date=1263818491]
Last season papered the cracks. The reality is we have far too many players who aren't good enough. This season has adequately exposed that, it's plain for everyone to see.
[/quote]
I slightly disagree Anita. We played some bloody good stuff last year and showed we could mix it with the best. The cracks were papered over in terms of squad depth though I agree there. We didn't replace Alonso and more importantly we never built on the squad we had. Alonso leaving is not the one single reason we've failed miserably it's a number of contributing factors
[/quote]
Alonso leaving isn't the only reason, I agree. But it's a bloody major one. We haven't replaced him in the midfield. The middle of the park dictates the course of a game, without Alonso our midfield is limp. Having Alonso on CM also meant Gerrard had the freedom to concentrate on the offensive part of our game; a luxury he hasn't had this season. This meant our lack of depth in the final third, was manageable. And the attacking brilliant of Gerrard and Torres took the pressure off of our wide players and their lack of goals and ability.
That, coupled with the fact we had four or five world class players who were in top form last season, they dragged everyone's game up a gear.
A weak midfield exposes your defence and starves your strikers; that's what's happened to us this season. I'm not for a second suggesting Alonso is and was the only solution, but out failure to replace him has been a grave error with heartbreaking consequences.
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1036956#msg1036956 date=1263818362]
Houllier didn't have the chavs and City to contend with.
[/quote]
GH lost out on a champions league spot to the Chavs, last day of the season when we played them in 2003, he did have to contend with them.
Houllier didn't have the chavs and City to contend with.
[/quote]
GH lost out on a champions league spot to the Chavs, last day of the season when we played them in 2003, he did have to contend with them.
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