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sack Rafa

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I don't think the way we were set up at the outset was the problem. You're always going to get a physical challenge at Stoke and we had to equip ourselves to meet that, which I thought we did pretty well. IMO, apart from the extraordinary incompetence/bias/both of one of the poorest refereeing displays I have ever known, what let us down - again - was our inability to tie a game up when it was ours to lose. THAT's where we keep failing, trying to sit on a lead when we should be trying to extend it instead, and thereby letting the opposition back in.
 
rafa isn't going to be sacked but if he is here next season I'll be amazed. I think if rafa weren't on such a big contract he would have walked already
 
If we miss fourth place and fail to win the Europa thingy I reckon there's a real chance the owners may decide to cut their losses and let him go in the summer.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=38437.msg1035817#msg1035817 date=1263654751]
If we miss fourth place and fail to win the Europa thingy I reckon there's a real chance the owners may decide to cut their losses and let him go in the summer.
[/quote]

see, even finishing outside the top 4 has a silver lining
 
He has to go.

When your rivals' fans are all saying what a great job he's doing and how he has to stay, you know its time to get rid
 
[quote author=aquaman4 link=topic=38437.msg1035881#msg1035881 date=1263660487]
i like his responses on sky ...27000 people could see the incident only 3 couldn't
[/quote]

yeah he's so clever. how about this. 26999 could see n'gog was shit from the first whistle. how does that sound?
 
what do you want him to say the ref wernt fit enough or the ref only played 7 mins added on time instead of 27 mins the mans fighting to save his job for fucks sake would you like him to be openly honest and say we were shit ? and give us lot and the press a field day slaging him of more than we all are now
 
A deity in the wings, Kenny Dalglish may be the man to cool fans' fury

There would be obvious appeal in hiring an Anfield legend as a human shield against the displeasure of the Kop

By Paul Hayward


Like Bill Shankly, Kenny Dalglish gave up the Liverpool job and soon regretted it. Plagued by stress-related blotches, and still haunted by the Hillsborough disaster, King Kenny resigned in 1991 and returned from a family holiday in Orlando a few weeks later dismayed that Graeme ­Souness had taken over.

"Of course, I had no right to hope Liverpool would come back to me. Besides, at that time I thought Graeme was the right man for the job," Dalglish wrote in his memoirs. "But if Liverpool had waited until the summer, and then asked me, I would have gone back. Like a shot. Liverpool will always be in my family's heart."

The sense that Merseyside's most illustrious player has unfinished business in the Anfield dug-out is deepened by those echoes of nearly 20 years ago. Among senior figures in the red half of town there is a belief that Dalglish would answer Liverpool's distress flare in a caretaker capacity should the club's American owners decide that paying Rafael Benítez off would be cheaper than a further acceleration in the team's decline.

Not that the last Liverpool manager to win the league title (in 1990) is plotting behind the cracking edifice of Benítez's autocratic style. Dalglish returned in Anfield last summer as an academy director and club ambassador at Benítez's instigation and would not be part of any conspiracy against the manager. "For the boss to put his trust in me is a great compliment and I am coming back as a very lucky person," he said back in July. At 58, though, he is entitled to feel he's not too decrepit to test his faith that he could still mix it with Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger, especially at a club where he is already a deity.

There would be no onerous (for the club) five-year contract to tempt Dalglish in from his ceremonial role and his work with the club's best youngsters. It would most likely be an emergency appointment. Yet there would be an obvious appeal to Tom Hicks and George Gillett in hiring a human shield against the mounting fury of the Kop. Shankly's premature departure was never corrected. This time, in the short term, the precipitous resignation of an adored leader might find a happier resolution.

Dalglish surrendered to the internal voice that was telling him to flee after a 4-4 fifth-round FA Cup draw with Everton. "Before the game, I lay on my hotel bed and decided I had to get out," he wrote. "The alternative was going mad." The next morning, "unwell and under strain", he told the directors: "I cannot go on. I am telling you now that I want to give up."

There is no change in the party line that Benítez is safe until at least the summer, but this policy was formulated in the autumn, when the team's Premier League challenge was starting to unravel and the Champions League campaign was ending at the group stage.

The latest indignity is Wednesday night's third-round FA Cup defeat at home to Reading. If the maelstrom around Benítez picks up further pace, the corporate need to calm the banks and potential "investors" (aka speculators) may override the board's reluctance to pay Benítez as much as £20m to go away.

Tomorrow, Liverpool fans have only to walk across Stanley Park, where their new stadium is meant to be, to examine the biggest threat to their hopes of finishing fourth in the league, a quest that now assumes holy grail proportions. Not to watch Everton, but their opponents, Manchester City, whose new manager, Roberto Mancini, has exploited the soft start engineered for him by City's owners to win his first four games.

To finish any lower than fourth would detonate the debt-to-income calculation on which the American leveraged buy-out of Liverpool was based. Stoke City's Britannia Stadium, tomorrow lunchtime, is the wrong place to seek compassion from the locals.

As bookmakers price up Liverpool's options (Dalglish is 5-2 joint favourite with Guus Hiddink to succeed "Agent" Benítez, as some Manchester United fans gleefully call him), neutrals will debate the ambassador for Kirkby's managerial credentials. His three league titles at Anfield are beyond disparagement, even if he was largely extending the work of Shankly, Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan. His triumph in the 1994-95 title race is often dismissed as the harvest of Jack Walker's money, yet Blackburn remain the only club outside of United, Chelsea and Arsenal to wear the Premier League tiara. Ewood Park, surely, was the stage for Dalglish's greatest phase of team-construction and strategic thinking.

In the Mike Ashley era, Newcastle fans would consider his second and 13th-place Premier League finishes from 1997-98 as glorious pageants, especially as they featured an immortal Champions League win over Barcelona at St James' Park. But then Dalglish's managerial career fizzled out, at Celtic, and he passed involuntarily into that realm where disappointed ex-managers reside: the golf course and the after-dinner speaking circuit.

To imagine him in charge of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard would doubtless excite the Kop sufficiently for Liverpool's hardcore to ignore his 10 years out of management.

But many would doubtless hope to see a long-term appointment from further down the bookies' list. Here, though, a cringe kicks in. Romance alone is unlikely to persuade José Mourinho or Frank Rijkaard that they could topple Chelsea and United at a club where Andriy Voronin and Andrea Dossena need to be sold before Maxi Rodríguez can be bought and where the acquisition of a desperately needed striker is contingent upon the sale of Ryan Babel.

The dark trinity of debt, boardroom chaos and a lack of funds is unlikely to prompt Europe's A-list coaches to order Shankly books on Amazon. In their current plight, Liverpool's best hope would be to pay over the odds for an expert problem solver (Hiddink, say), or pray that Martin O'Neill could be persuaded to imagine a more stable future in which the sons of the owners desisted from writing to supporters: "Blow me, fuck face."

With each defeat, and every boardroom fiasco, Liverpool's powerlessness increases, their capacity to attract new talent to the pitch and the dug-out decreases. This multiplier effect is the game's new Darwinian reality and will make no exception for Anfield and its traditions. There is already a precedent this season for a notable figure rejoining a club in an academy role and then finding his way to the first-team coaching zone. Whether by club directive, or on Mancini's orders (the former, almost certainly), Brian Kidd stepped into the gap left by the clear-out of Mark Hughes and his staff to become the City No2.

Dalglish's return from a blazer role would be far grander than Kidd's farewell to kids. Liverpool are out of everything – except the Europa League, "a tournament for losers", Ronnie Whelan scoffed yesterday – but they are never out of history to draw on, or past glories to invoke. The last major trophy Benítez won was the 2006 FA Cup. The last time Liverpool ribbons were on the English league trophy was 20 years ago, when distress was starting to grind away at Dalglish. Resignation, then regret, and maybe now redemption, however brief.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jan/15/rafael-benitez-kenny-dalglish-liverpool
 
This season is death by a thousand cuts

Slow, miserable, agonising and prolonged death

Thanks for the lack of CL qualification, now fuck off
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38437.msg1036028#msg1036028 date=1263670564]
A deity in the wings, Kenny Dalglish may be the man to cool fans' fury

There would be obvious appeal in hiring an Anfield legend as a human shield against the displeasure of the Kop

By Paul Hayward


Like Bill Shankly, Kenny Dalglish gave up the Liverpool job and soon regretted it. Plagued by stress-related blotches, and still haunted by the Hillsborough disaster, King Kenny resigned in 1991 and returned from a family holiday in Orlando a few weeks later dismayed that Graeme ­Souness had taken over.

"Of course, I had no right to hope Liverpool would come back to me. Besides, at that time I thought Graeme was the right man for the job," Dalglish wrote in his memoirs. "But if Liverpool had waited until the summer, and then asked me, I would have gone back. Like a shot. Liverpool will always be in my family's heart."

The sense that Merseyside's most illustrious player has unfinished business in the Anfield dug-out is deepened by those echoes of nearly 20 years ago. Among senior figures in the red half of town there is a belief that Dalglish would answer Liverpool's distress flare in a caretaker capacity should the club's American owners decide that paying Rafael Benítez off would be cheaper than a further acceleration in the team's decline.

Not that the last Liverpool manager to win the league title (in 1990) is plotting behind the cracking edifice of Benítez's autocratic style. Dalglish returned in Anfield last summer as an academy director and club ambassador at Benítez's instigation and would not be part of any conspiracy against the manager. "For the boss to put his trust in me is a great compliment and I am coming back as a very lucky person," he said back in July. At 58, though, he is entitled to feel he's not too decrepit to test his faith that he could still mix it with Sir Alex Ferguson and Arsène Wenger, especially at a club where he is already a deity.

There would be no onerous (for the club) five-year contract to tempt Dalglish in from his ceremonial role and his work with the club's best youngsters. It would most likely be an emergency appointment. Yet there would be an obvious appeal to Tom Hicks and George Gillett in hiring a human shield against the mounting fury of the Kop. Shankly's premature departure was never corrected. This time, in the short term, the precipitous resignation of an adored leader might find a happier resolution.

Dalglish surrendered to the internal voice that was telling him to flee after a 4-4 fifth-round FA Cup draw with Everton. "Before the game, I lay on my hotel bed and decided I had to get out," he wrote. "The alternative was going mad." The next morning, "unwell and under strain", he told the directors: "I cannot go on. I am telling you now that I want to give up."

There is no change in the party line that Benítez is safe until at least the summer, but this policy was formulated in the autumn, when the team's Premier League challenge was starting to unravel and the Champions League campaign was ending at the group stage.

The latest indignity is Wednesday night's third-round FA Cup defeat at home to Reading. If the maelstrom around Benítez picks up further pace, the corporate need to calm the banks and potential "investors" (aka speculators) may override the board's reluctance to pay Benítez as much as £20m to go away.

Tomorrow, Liverpool fans have only to walk across Stanley Park, where their new stadium is meant to be, to examine the biggest threat to their hopes of finishing fourth in the league, a quest that now assumes holy grail proportions. Not to watch Everton, but their opponents, Manchester City, whose new manager, Roberto Mancini, has exploited the soft start engineered for him by City's owners to win his first four games.

To finish any lower than fourth would detonate the debt-to-income calculation on which the American leveraged buy-out of Liverpool was based. Stoke City's Britannia Stadium, tomorrow lunchtime, is the wrong place to seek compassion from the locals.

As bookmakers price up Liverpool's options (Dalglish is 5-2 joint favourite with Guus Hiddink to succeed "Agent" Benítez, as some Manchester United fans gleefully call him), neutrals will debate the ambassador for Kirkby's managerial credentials. His three league titles at Anfield are beyond disparagement, even if he was largely extending the work of Shankly, Bob Paisley and Joe Fagan. His triumph in the 1994-95 title race is often dismissed as the harvest of Jack Walker's money, yet Blackburn remain the only club outside of United, Chelsea and Arsenal to wear the Premier League tiara. Ewood Park, surely, was the stage for Dalglish's greatest phase of team-construction and strategic thinking.

In the Mike Ashley era, Newcastle fans would consider his second and 13th-place Premier League finishes from 1997-98 as glorious pageants, especially as they featured an immortal Champions League win over Barcelona at St James' Park. But then Dalglish's managerial career fizzled out, at Celtic, and he passed involuntarily into that realm where disappointed ex-managers reside: the golf course and the after-dinner speaking circuit.

To imagine him in charge of Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard would doubtless excite the Kop sufficiently for Liverpool's hardcore to ignore his 10 years out of management.

But many would doubtless hope to see a long-term appointment from further down the bookies' list. Here, though, a cringe kicks in. Romance alone is unlikely to persuade José Mourinho or Frank Rijkaard that they could topple Chelsea and United at a club where Andriy Voronin and Andrea Dossena need to be sold before Maxi Rodríguez can be bought and where the acquisition of a desperately needed striker is contingent upon the sale of Ryan Babel.

The dark trinity of debt, boardroom chaos and a lack of funds is unlikely to prompt Europe's A-list coaches to order Shankly books on Amazon. In their current plight, Liverpool's best hope would be to pay over the odds for an expert problem solver (Hiddink, say), or pray that Martin O'Neill could be persuaded to imagine a more stable future in which the sons of the owners desisted from writing to supporters: "Blow me, fuck face."

With each defeat, and every boardroom fiasco, Liverpool's powerlessness increases, their capacity to attract new talent to the pitch and the dug-out decreases. This multiplier effect is the game's new Darwinian reality and will make no exception for Anfield and its traditions. There is already a precedent this season for a notable figure rejoining a club in an academy role and then finding his way to the first-team coaching zone. Whether by club directive, or on Mancini's orders (the former, almost certainly), Brian Kidd stepped into the gap left by the clear-out of Mark Hughes and his staff to become the City No2.

Dalglish's return from a blazer role would be far grander than Kidd's farewell to kids. Liverpool are out of everything – except the Europa League, "a tournament for losers", Ronnie Whelan scoffed yesterday – but they are never out of history to draw on, or past glories to invoke. The last major trophy Benítez won was the 2006 FA Cup. The last time Liverpool ribbons were on the English league trophy was 20 years ago, when distress was starting to grind away at Dalglish. Resignation, then regret, and maybe now redemption, however brief.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/jan/15/rafael-benitez-kenny-dalglish-liverpool


[/quote]

Mind-blowingly silly article.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38437.msg1036263#msg1036263 date=1263695310]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
[/quote]

Ay - people are very very frustrated. I think even the most loyal Rafa fans realize his time may be up - but we shouldn't 'spit' on all he's done due to this season. My heart still wants to believe he can turn this around.
 
danny murphy says...........

The experienced midfielder, who is now on the books of Fulham, believes the time has come for sweeping changes to be made at Anfield if they are to set out on the road to recovery.

The 32-year-old playmaker is of the opinion that in order for progress to be made, Benitez needs to be shown the door and a new manager brought in to help steady the ship.

With pressure mounting on the Spaniard with each passing game, it may only be a matter of time before Murphy's beliefs are shared by the Liverpool board.

A disastrous 2009/10 has underlined just how far away the club are from being regular contenders for major trophies, and much of the blame for their ongoing failings has been laid at Benitez's door.

"If you ask me has the time for Liverpool come to look for a new manager then I have to say 'yes'," Murphy told the News of the World.

"That is not me slating the guy because he forced me out when I didn't want to leave the club in the first place. Neither am I saying he is a bad manager. But over the last year or so the club have not moved forwards, in fact they are going backwards.

Mistakes
"I will always be a fan. I keep in touch with a lot of people close to the club and many think the time has come for a new manager. I agree providing that process doesn't cripple the club financially in terms of pay-offs."

He added: "Liverpool's problems at the moment are not just about some of the bad buys they have made for a lot of money over the last few years, but also the mistakes they've made in letting players go.

"I am not thinking of an obvious one like (Xabi) Alonso, but why on earth did Benitez sell players like Peter Crouch and Craig Bellamy when they are so reliant on Fernando Torres?

"It goes without saying the team have ended up relying too much on Torres, Steven Gerrard and Jamie Carragher.

"Over the past two years Benitez has made too many bad decisions. History says he has won the Champions League and the FA Cup for Liverpool, although even then people can argue about the merit of those wins.

"What I do know is that after being there for this length of time the debate should no longer be about Liverpool qualifying for the Champions League or where they finish in the league but actually winning the title. And that's not going to happen again this season. So something has to change.

"People go on about how well Liverpool did last season by finishing runners up? So what? We finished second under Gerard Houllier with 80 odd points. Our team also won three big trophies in one season. So things haven't really got much better. If anything they have got worse."
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38437.msg1036263#msg1036263 date=1263695310]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
[/quote]

The tactics that turned Istanbul round were forced on him, not his decision. And, realistically, they countered the wrong decision he'd made in the first place.
FA Cup, it's quite clear Gerrard won that for us on his own.
Last year, a 6 month period of good football , non defensive shit-fest, in 6 years of managament was a blip; the other 5 and a half years point to negativitity and crap footy. Struggling for 4th. Like now.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1036474#msg1036474 date=1263739995]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38437.msg1036263#msg1036263 date=1263695310]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
[/quote]

The tactics that turned Istanbul round were forced on him, not his decision. And, realistically, they countered the wrong decision he'd made in the first place.
FA Cup, it's quite clear Gerrard won that for us on his own.
Last year, a 6 month period of good football , non defensive shit-fest, in 6 years of managament was a blip; the other 5 and a half years point to negativitity and crap footy. Struggling for 4th. Like now.


[/quote]

While I do agree that Rafa got it wrong in the final, you can't deny the fantastic work that got us there.
 
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1036474#msg1036474 date=1263739995]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38437.msg1036263#msg1036263 date=1263695310]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
[/quote]

The tactics that turned Istanbul round were forced on him, not his decision. And, realistically, they countered the wrong decision he'd made in the first place.
FA Cup, it's quite clear Gerrard won that for us on his own.
Last year, a 6 month period of good football , non defensive shit-fest, in 6 years of managament was a blip; the other 5 and a half years point to negativitity and crap footy. Struggling for 4th. Like now.


[/quote]
Ha ha great...

I'll bet an Aussie dollar that you're one of the posters singing Mourinhos praise 'aight?

The all-out positive attacking-minded football oracle as we all know him.
 
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1036488#msg1036488 date=1263741718]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1036474#msg1036474 date=1263739995]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38437.msg1036263#msg1036263 date=1263695310]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
[/quote]

The tactics that turned Istanbul round were forced on him, not his decision. And, realistically, they countered the wrong decision he'd made in the first place.
FA Cup, it's quite clear Gerrard won that for us on his own.
Last year, a 6 month period of good football , non defensive shit-fest, in 6 years of managament was a blip; the other 5 and a half years point to negativitity and crap footy. Struggling for 4th. Like now.


[/quote]
Ha ha great...

I'll bet an Aussie dollar that you're one of the posters singing Mourinhos praise 'aight?

The all-out positive attacking-minded football oracle as we all know him.
[/quote]

No Larry wants MON.
 
He mastered an away victory against Juventus with a central midfield pairing of Biscan and Le Tallec.

That isn't "luck".
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=38437.msg1036494#msg1036494 date=1263742019]
[quote author=the_khl link=topic=38437.msg1036488#msg1036488 date=1263741718]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1036474#msg1036474 date=1263739995]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=38437.msg1036263#msg1036263 date=1263695310]
[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=38437.msg1035783#msg1035783 date=1263653500]

Benitez is a rubbish manager. He got lucky in Istanbul, Gerrard baled him out against West Ham, we were lucky last season to finish 2nd. That's it in 6 years.
Fuck off.

[/quote]

That's absolute shite Larry to be fair.
[/quote]

The tactics that turned Istanbul round were forced on him, not his decision. And, realistically, they countered the wrong decision he'd made in the first place.
FA Cup, it's quite clear Gerrard won that for us on his own.
Last year, a 6 month period of good football , non defensive shit-fest, in 6 years of managament was a blip; the other 5 and a half years point to negativitity and crap footy. Struggling for 4th. Like now.


[/quote]
Ha ha great...

I'll bet an Aussie dollar that you're one of the posters singing Mourinhos praise 'aight?

The all-out positive attacking-minded football oracle as we all know him.
[/quote]

No Larry wants MON.
[/quote]


I think he just wants someone that can win games, Raf.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38437.msg1036495#msg1036495 date=1263742060]
He mastered an away victory against Juventus with a central midfield pairing of Biscan and Le Tallec.

That isn't "luck".
[/quote]The away leg was 0-0.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=38437.msg1036551#msg1036551 date=1263752863]
Was it? Ha.

Told.
[/quote]

How can you not remember that? Most matches and results blur in my memory, but the Road to Istanbul... I could do a Mastermind on it.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=38437.msg1036555#msg1036555 date=1263753178]
I know it was also Alonso's return from injury, though can't remember if he started or not
[/quote]

Yeah he did. We did go to Depor though with injuries, and we did well in both legs against Leverkusen, when most expected us to get beat.
 
can any one out there tell me who would replace rafa as manager or who would want to with the two yanks here and the finanical mess were in ?
 
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