Why is it 'hilariously' flawed? Which individual decisions has he made that's come up short? How come those individual decisions from last season didn't come up short?
You're not being very specific.
Sack him
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You're not being very specific.
This is spot on.
It's the hyperbolic nature of the internet and society that 'over' reacts to a bad situation. There's no patience, no faith and comments such as 'I don't want a project'. It's mindless posting.
Okay.
- Constantly changing formations, from 3 at the back, to two strikers, to beating the broken 4231 to death.
- Flipping the midfield triangle against the wrong sides
- Typically a Gerrard/Lucas midfield two which is very dysfunctional
- Persisting with Downing much too often in his first season
- Constantly changing his back line without rhyme nor reason
- 4 central defenders against Southampton
- First season, not using his substitutions early/often enough
- Recently, subbing off some of our best performers(Lallana, Coutinho, etc) when we could use their creativity
- Benching Coutinho for lesser options after a bright performance
- Persisting with Gerrard at CDM
- Pushing Markovic out wide
- Giving Glen Johnson so many matches
- Freezing out Agger
- Poor transfer record
- Playing Lucas as an advanced CM
- Playing Balotelli lone Striker
- Playing key players like Sterling for extended periods in meaningless cup matches against lower league opposition
- Abruptly changing our youth coaching setup
- Refusing a DOF
- Preaching Tiki-Taka while reaping the rewards of a counter attacking game. <--This one confuses me tremendously
- Freezing out Suso despite his bright performances leading into the season
- Sticking with Lovren despite his terrible form
- Only playing Sakho/Toure when he has no other option. Defensively, they're our two best CBs.
- Seemingly random teamsheets lately. It feels like he's just chucking out a bunch of random midfielders and attackers, and hoping something will work
This is mostly stream of conscious stuff, I'm sure there's more, and I'm a bit off on a few of these. Also sure there's a few glaring ones that I've completely forgot.
All of a sudden Daniel Agger has turned into Booby Moore and Pepe Reina was the greatest cunt to ever wear gloves on a football pitch.
The only thing worse than the abject shite we're being served up on the weekend is the revisionist bollocks we're enduring from fans with selective memories.
The only thing worse than the abject shite we're being served up on the weekend is the revisionist bollocks we're enduring from fans with selective memories.
What? You don't want people to generalise, yet you're putting a blanket over last seasons success as not being specific enough reason to keep him. I'm sure a campaign where he finished manager of the season, had us score 100+ goals and finish second out of nowhere, is probably littered with tactical prowess.
How about setting up a side to batter what's put infront of them within the first 20 minutes? Shifting his midfield axis around in a game to overcome a tactical issue? Bringing in Jamie Carragher to add leadership to the back? Making some inspired substitutions that saw us win games, subs that admittedly at the time had me scratching my head, but worked?
Suggesting there aren't specifics within such a crucial campaign to point to is, well, "hilariously flawed", it doesn't need pointing out because the outcome speaks for it's fucking self. It's as flawed as ignoring last year because things aren't going well this year. And I wish people like yourself and Redninja would stop generalising that people are over-defending him or ignoring what's going on (we're going to get relegated!), like Del said, people aren't oblivious to it, but writing him off 12 games in is pathetic arm-chair stuff, it lacks common sense. But there's a fucking surprise.
Let's just take Lovren for example. Various posters have been pointing out his flaws since the first match he's played. Fast forward 15 matches and 3 odd months later, he is still as hapless as day 1. He was abysmal at palace. It's the same old for the rest of the team. The key to this is that we are playing WORSE than before.
You mentioned "project" and looking at how long he has been here, it could be argued that it is at this point where we judge him. When he was employed BR himself said this was a 3 years project. He has had 3 years and more to build a team building up to the ultimate goal and he has failed. Is it really that unreasonable to call for his head?
Can we also dispel this notion that we only performed last year? He's had one full season where it took him months to get going, then we spent the second half of that season in really good form, helped by the additions of Coutinho and Sturridge (who he bought). Then we had last season, now we've had 12 league games where it's gone tits up. I think that deserves looking over in terms of percentages and how much positive impact he's had over that time, common sense would suggest that this isn't the norm and form is temporary. Yes he has flaws to sort out and signings to justify, but he deserves time to put it right, talk of Benitez is laughable (6 years), talk of anyone else is premature.
Of course it is, it's selective. He said it'd take a few years, we got there sooner last year but seem to be ignoring that. So we can't judge him last year because it's too soon, but this year (after 12 fucking games) when things go wrong, we suddenly can? Do me a favour.
1. What exactly did Rodgers contribute to our sides that battered other top sides? My impression is that he set them up much like any other match, but since the opposition had more talent and ambition, they didn't sit quite as deep. Ergo, we were able to exploit this space, and run away with games against sides who aren't used to playing from behind against a hyper aggressive team.
2. Shifting his midfield axis to overcome a tactical issue? I have one that vaguely comes to mind, but it was the exception not the rule.
3. Our Central Defending options at the time when Carragher was brought in were something like Agger, Skrtel, and Coates. Carragher was the best of the worst that year, nothing more. I don't think it was for leadership either, we had experienced players if nothing else in Reina, Gerrard, Agger, Johnson, Downing, etc featuring in that stretch.
4. What substitutions, and how did they work? I might have one in mind, but it didn't work out well at all long term.
By the way, why do you take every opinion that differs from yours personally? Legitimately curious here, because you routinely attack the poster, not the post, when someone disagrees with you often enough.
I think a few people are conveniently forgetting in Rafa's last season we finished 6 in the league, got knocked out of the champions league at the group stage, knocked out of the league cup in the 4th round and knocked out of FA Cup in the 3rd round at Anfield, by Reading from the Championship.
I can't quite understand why someone would suggest sacking Rodgers & replacing him with a manager who ended up delivering, at best, something eerily similar to what's happening now.
But then.... I'm not mental.
I can't quite understand why someone would suggest sacking Rodgers & replacing him with a manager who ended up delivering, at best, something eerily similar to what's happening now.
But then.... I'm not mental.
Europa League semi final?
No one is forgetting that, but does it look like we're even gonna make 6th this season?
It's not just 12 games though is it? In the champions league we haven't performed well at all, even if you take out the 2 Real Madrid games where if we still had Suarez and Sturridge fit we may well have gotten beat. Against Ludogorets at home and Basel away we were hopeless and in the League Cup we've needed penalties to get past Middlesborough and 2 late goals and a dodgy red card to get past Swansea.
One good performance against Tottenham (and even in that game we created more chances for Tottenham than they did themselves) and a half decent performance against Everton out of 18 games isn't good.
I don't think there is any chance of him getting sacked in the next week or maybe two but if the poor performances and results continue then the Yanks might make the decision. Maybe they will try and help him first by persuading him to get an experienced coach in to help but I'm not sure he'd accept that.
Personally i hope he turns it around because that will mean that the team are doing better and that's all I'm interested in. Even when Hodgson was there i couldn't stand the man from day one and thought he would be a disaster but i still wanted the team to do well even if that meant Hodgson doing well.
Managers and players come and go but the club will always be there.
One good performance against Tottenham (and even in that game we created more chances for Tottenham than they did themselves) and a half decent performance against Everton out of 18 games isn't good.
I don't think there is any chance of him getting sacked in the next week or maybe two but if the poor performances and results continue then the Yanks might make the decision. Maybe they will try and help him first by persuading him to get an experienced coach in to help but I'm not sure he'd accept that.
Personally i hope he turns it around because that will mean that the team are doing better and that's all I'm interested in. Even when Hodgson was there i couldn't stand the man from day one and thought he would be a disaster but i still wanted the team to do well even if that meant Hodgson doing well.
Managers and players come and go but the club will always be there.
Scraping the barrel Modo.
We're not in the Europa league - strange thing to bring up, since we aren't out of the Champions League yet.
After the first 12 games of that season, under Rafa, we'd amassed 5 points more. - so maybe.... let's just not act like a hysterical imbecile and afford Rodgers the same length of time Rafa & Kenny got to arrest declining performances.
That seems an odd one, mate. He was widely praised in his first season for changing things promptly during matches. As I said at the time, it didn't seem that unusual to me - managers are at their least sentimental and protective of their players early on and don't see it (as they tend to do later on) as an admission of failure if they tinker with the selections and system when it's still basically a squad they've inherited from the previous regime. They can always shrug their shoulders, say they're still learning about their players and imply, 'Look at the shite I've been left to work with'. It's NOW, when the squad is Brendan's through and through, that he seems disinclined to change things quickly during games. That seems the usual way that managers evolve.
I stopped reading after the first paragraph. So, it's a circumstance issue rather than down to tactical decisions, it's just a pure coincidence that we put four or more against some top sides, because they "pushed forward". Ok. I'm struggling to see how we can discount the impact of players like Coutinho and Sturridge on that, given they were both instrumental to it.
Ah but 5 points more and we would be 4th..
On a serious note.. I don't think time is necessarily on BR's side..
As a club we can ill afford to give him time to get things right.. It will set us back years if he doesn't. That's why I think he will get to January..
Failure to qualify for the Champions league will detrimental to the 'project' FSG are trying to build... The loss of revenue would be catastrophic... We would struggle to compete...
And in defending @Modo,
It really won't be such a bad thing this time around if we are to enter the Europa League.. Because of the automatic qualification for the Champs League by winning the thing..
Rafa would certainly be the right man in respect of that if we get knocked out of the Champs League and Brendon was to get the chop..
So wait...... The only way we are going to get into the champions league next season, is by making sure Rodgers doesn't get through the group stage, sacking him & appointing Rafa who will clearly win the Europa league - because that's what he did at Chelsea.
I hope Rodgers gets the memo with the appropriate bits redacted.
Don't you just love the way this site puts words in your mouth ?
I said if the worse was to happen it wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing..
I also never said it would be the only way.. However having a manager with a proven European Pedigree, you are always in with a chance..
Jono, wanting to bring back Rafa to have a go at a competition we aren't even eligible for yet is silly. How does bringing back Rafa on a short term basis help us moving forward as a club? Yes, he'll help the defense in the short term and he is familiar with the club but what else will we benefit from it? Rafa's last season with us wasn't a bed of roses. We finished outside the CL places
Rafa is a stubborn man and likes elements of control. He would want his own people in and his own players. So we pay off Rodgers team and then allow Rafa in on a short term contract is it? We need to move forward as a club so will need to appoint a new hungry manager in the ilk of Klopp after Rafa's short term contract with us is up. That is if Rafa agrees to walk away from his job with Napoli and accepts a short term contract with us. How long of a contract would you be offering him btw?
Going back for Rafa isn't an option for me. I'm a big Rafa fan but I can't see the point of sacking Rodgers now to appoint Rafa.
Rafa is a stubborn man and likes elements of control. He would want his own people in and his own players. So we pay off Rodgers team and then allow Rafa in on a short term contract is it? We need to move forward as a club so will need to appoint a new hungry manager in the ilk of Klopp after Rafa's short term contract with us is up. That is if Rafa agrees to walk away from his job with Napoli and accepts a short term contract with us. How long of a contract would you be offering him btw?
Going back for Rafa isn't an option for me. I'm a big Rafa fan but I can't see the point of sacking Rodgers now to appoint Rafa.
Funny how he can be judged last year (big pay day and lots of accolades) but not this year then.
Who said he can't be judged this year? It's just ridiculous to talk about sacking him, no one is ignoring how shite we are. Why are a handful of posters finding it hard to differentiate?
That's not what you said though
"if the worse was to happen" did not feature in your post.
He IS being judged for this season. He is on thin ice with nearly everyone on the site. There is no RCDNW Brigade. There is no little fan club or cheer squad blindly supporting him. His defensive set up is pathetic and we want him to address it. He needs to sort it out pronto.
Only a small few want him sacked right now. I'm willing to afford him a little more time. He deserves that. You don't sack a manager 12 games in after coming 2nd last season. If we don't show signs of improvement and we continue to lose games then I will we readdress the situation.
Oh there's so many things wrong with the specifics you laid out. I'm on Tapatalk and at work so I'll address them later.
Generally speaking, each one has both worked and not worked in all 3 of Rodgers tenure so it really is a selective stick to beat him and not a reason to sack him after 12 games into this season.
And none of them explains why his 2nd year cannot be used as its 'hilariously' flawed.
I distinctly recall on his first several matches where we got off to a slow start, he was very hesitant to make any subs at all, but the reasoning makes sense I suppose.
I think when he changed things, he typically changed systems more so than players, which has it's own pros and con's.
I await your post with bated breaths.
I'm curious here because a handful of them are horrible tactical missteps that even when we have taken points, we've looked overrun and frail at the back.
Okay, you tell me why we dominated some top sides, and then scraped wins against the mid table teams.
Its the same principle that Real used to smash Bayern last year, or the Dutch against Spain in the WC. Remember how much trouble the Dutch then had with a mediocre Mexico side?
Again, I don't want Rafa back, but to not take into account the context of his last season (i.e. the massive distraction of the ownership meltdown and near ruin of the club due to Hicks and Gilette) is to deliberately leave out a whole chunk of information that mediates against his struggle that season.
He'd be returning to a much more stable, settled club off the pitch.
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