Injured, red carded or suspended.
Rooney
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Injured, red carded or suspended.
There's plenty of top, top players who've failed at International level, it's not always a measure of quality, and our International side is dire for the most part, Gerrard has probably been their best player over the last 10 years and he's failed to reach anywhere near the standards he has for Liverpool. Look at Fowler, look at Carragher.
For England, give me a healthy Owen over him every single day ... or a Lineker. Those guys scored on the biggest stages - Rooney doesn't. He really should get the goal record Owen should have got however.
Were Fowler or Carrager ever given a starting shirt no matter what for that length of time? You can't compare the two ...
You can compare him however to Owen - both boy wonders, both given the shirt continually and only one produced.
I'm not saying he isn't a 'top top player'. He is, but he's not world class, has never really fulfilled the potential most of us thought he had (bar Glock) and I think it will always be an issue of 'what if' with him ... If he had say Ronaldo's work ethic and desire to be the best, he'd have been in the same class as Ronaldo and Messi imo.
It's also worth pointing out that Rooney has always been more of a fulcrum in attack, than a spearhead - he's not an out an out striker, he's always played more of the deeper role, with everyone around him playing off him. He's not a Shearer, Lineker or Owen, they were all out and out strikers.
Was that by design? or was that always his natural position?
Yeah, but you're splitting hairs really, it's a pointless argument, he's a top, TOP player who isn't quite as good as Messi and Ronaldo, two of the best players we've seen in over 100 years of football.
It's always been pretty obvious it's his more natural inkling to drop deep for the ball, that's why he plays off RVP, that's why I've always maintained that part of this so called Gerrard/Lampard issue at International level is in no small part due to Rooney dropping into the same zones, you've got three top players underperforming and getting in each others way and proving ineffective.
I don't think he's in the 2nd tier below them tbh - he's not at the level of a Falcao, or a Suarez, or a Gomez etc ... he's below that level imo. That's not saying he's not a top player, but he's not there in my opinion.
His record is as good as Suarez's, he's just not what your football purist would label in that category a player, you're talking about technically able players with pace dribbling ability, he's a different breed, so is Gerrard for that matter. Gerrard is better than Rooney, but anyway. Like I said, it's all a bit pointless, he's top player who isn't quite as good as a some other top players. He's still consistently been one of the best talents in Europe over the last decade.
talents, undoubtedly ...
Sky Sports @SkySports
Sir Alex Ferguson gives his word@WayneRooney will be at #MUFC next season. Stresses are no issues with the player http://bit.ly/YgrOvR
Sir Alex Ferguson gives his word
He'll play in midfield when Scholes and Giggs retire.
Great player but could and should have been better. I think he's been playing consistently at his peak for a few years now and is still there now. But for whatever reason he never went to that next level. He has the talent to do it but it's never happened. He could have been up there with Ronaldo imo.
Is that really fair though, he looks a bit of a chubber but would he really have made it this far if he didn't live relatively cleanly?
You might be right though, comparing him to Ronaldo reminds me somewhat of Ricky Hatton when he fought Mayweather. My cousin met Hatton on holiday being a bit of a fat pisshead between fights whilst Mayweathers training was a lifestyle rather than just preparation for a fight. I'm a bit of a believer that if you treat your body right and you have the talent you'll find another level. I do agree with the view that he peaked early 20's, maybe that has a bit to do with his body type too.
Is he? I'm not so sure there.
I think that's a bit of a lazy criticism. He's never really lacked in stamina, his physique is what it is, he was built like a man when he was 16. I don't think he'd have made it this far if he was that careless, and it would have shown through injuries (ala Fowler, Carroll etc).
Exactly. It is lazy criticism that is based on nothing other than superficial perceptions.
The fact is that there is zero evidence to support any kind of lifestyle problems affecting his game.
Yes. Even the England thing that the tabloids like to throw at him - he never 'does it' in the biggest games - is a bit of a distortion, because you could say the same about almost any other England player during the past 40-odd years. What I think is probably right is the suggestion he's pretty thick - he's always been easy to wind up, always easy to unsettle and distract and, as his last sending off for England showed, quite capable of needlessly ruining things for himself. He does some clever footballing things, obviously, but he's probably almost as much of a mystery to himself as he is to others.
Not at all, at the end of last season, before the Euro's he took a boozy trip to LA and Vegas and was snapped with cigs in his mouth.
He gets to the Euros's and cant even control a ball.
Nothing to do with body shape, it his dedication to sport, could have been so much more.
Excellent player still
Thank god he didn't prepare like Didi used to prepare!
Oddly enough, the one player who performs just as well for England as he does for his club, is the much despised Ashley Cole.
I quite like him for that.
I was actully 100% with you on your comments until this one.
Rooney is definitely in that Falcao or even Suarez tier. He may not have got the press this season due to other factors but look at what he did last season. We're all agreed that Suarez is in unbelievable form this season but we'll be very happy if he matches what Rooney did last season.
I remember reading an article back when Rooney was about 19. I can't remember the author but I know he was a tremendous player himself. He said at the time the one thing that could stop Rooney from becoming one of the all time great players was his bank account. He doubted that Rooney had the people around him or the discipline to ignore the bank balance and drive himself forward beyond about the age of 23.
He went on to say that every top player goes through times of public doubt, injury, loss of direction and it takes an enormous effort to force your way through those. If you look at your bank account at that time and it says there's several million sitting there then the effort it takes to force your way through those times just becomes all the greater.
I think this has proved pretty accurate. He's a tremendous player, his effort on the field is first rate and his willingnes to play where the team has needed him is a tremendous example. But he's not reached the level he could have and, just looking at him, I find it hard to believe that a lot of that isn't down to his physical discipline.
Remember Ferguson talking about Ronaldo aiming to be an all time great? The difference is in their response; Ronaldo went out and trained like a maniac - the result is a player who can find an extra yard of pace on almost anybody in world football. His body rarely lets him down. You wouldn't call Rooney a sick note but he has been out injured a fair bit more than either Messi or Ronaldo. The real difference, I think, is their agility. Both Ronaldo and Messi can change direction penny while Rooney looks almost cumbersome in comparison.
Rooney is still one of the best players in the game so you can't really call it a waste of talent but he could have been as good as Ronaldo or Messi albeit in a different manner. I don't think he can ever get to that level now.
Spot on in every way.I wonder if it's his English mentality which held him back.
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