Rafael Benitez

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=36712.msg971496#msg971496 date=1256520108]
I thought Rafa got it pretty much exactly right.

Putting Yossi in the hole was a good move - though its not like a lot of us haven't been calling for it to happen for weeks. He's clearly our most creative behind Gerrard and Torres so the fact its taken so long is baffling.


What was so good was the intent of the players. Lucas looked free to go forward and his first intent was to get the ball forward rather than check behind him each time. Yossi was intent on running at them, Insua and Johnson the same to differing extents. Even Mascher was going forward more often though his determination to shoot can be utterly exasperating.

Aurelio was about the only positional move I thought was very good - otherwise it was the intent and approach to the game that the players carried out from Rafa which was so encouraging. I'm sure it would have been very tempting in Rafa's mind to take a very controlled approach to the game and make sure we didn't lose 5 in a row but his 4-2-3-1 never really became a 4-5-1 as some feared. If anything it sometimes looked like a 4-1-3-2 and for that he deserves great support. It was a very gutsy approach.
[/quote]

It should have happened after the 1st game as some of us have said.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=36712.msg971037#msg971037 date=1256488127]
Didn't you know? There's rumours he's lost the dressing room.
[/quote]

Hahaha...

Whenever we loose a game some tabloid poster will immediately spout something along those lines.

Yesterday the players fought like it was their last game. No one in their right mindset would argue that Rafa has lost the dressingroom.

We taught United a real lesson - without Gerrard mind - and we are right back on track.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=the_khl link=topic=36712.msg971684#msg971684 date=1256554574]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=36712.msg971037#msg971037 date=1256488127]
Didn't you know? There's rumours he's lost the dressing room.
[/quote]

Hahaha...

Whenever we loose a game some tabloid poster will immediately spout something along those lines.

Yesterday the players fought like it was their last game. No one in their right mindset would argue that Rafa has lost the dressingroom.

We taught United a real lesson - without Gerrard mind - and we are right back on track.
[/quote]

I think he meant 'Rage'..

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36712.msg971646#msg971646 date=1256551060]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=36712.msg971496#msg971496 date=1256520108]
I thought Rafa got it pretty much exactly right.

Putting Yossi in the hole was a good move - though its not like a lot of us haven't been calling for it to happen for weeks. He's clearly our most creative behind Gerrard and Torres so the fact its taken so long is baffling.


What was so good was the intent of the players. Lucas looked free to go forward and his first intent was to get the ball forward rather than check behind him each time. Yossi was intent on running at them, Insua and Johnson the same to differing extents. Even Mascher was going forward more often though his determination to shoot can be utterly exasperating.

Aurelio was about the only positional move I thought was very good - otherwise it was the intent and approach to the game that the players carried out from Rafa which was so encouraging. I'm sure it would have been very tempting in Rafa's mind to take a very controlled approach to the game and make sure we didn't lose 5 in a row but his 4-2-3-1 never really became a 4-5-1 as some feared. If anything it sometimes looked like a 4-1-3-2 and for that he deserves great support. It was a very gutsy approach.
[/quote]

It should have happened after the 1st game as some of us have said.
[/quote]

As far as I could tell, Yossi spent a lot of the game on the right with Kuyt up front.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=36712.msg971639#msg971639 date=1256550833]
Credit to rage, he's not been a twat and ruined this thread.

What a glorious weekend
[/quote]

That shows you the perverse logic someone like that engenders. 'Not being so much of a twat as usual' becomes a great achievement to be applauded. 'Well done, sir, well done!' Talk about lowering expectations!

Anyway...Did you hear the commentator on MOTD2 calling Rafa a 'lucky manager' for winning key games? Must be great to get through so much flak, win a crucial game with a clear use of intelligent tactics and then be called lucky!

 

[ArtOfficialIntelligence]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36712.msg971686#msg971686 date=1256554784]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36712.msg971646#msg971646 date=1256551060]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=36712.msg971496#msg971496 date=1256520108]
I thought Rafa got it pretty much exactly right.

Putting Yossi in the hole was a good move - though its not like a lot of us haven't been calling for it to happen for weeks. He's clearly our most creative behind Gerrard and Torres so the fact its taken so long is baffling.


What was so good was the intent of the players. Lucas looked free to go forward and his first intent was to get the ball forward rather than check behind him each time. Yossi was intent on running at them, Insua and Johnson the same to differing extents. Even Mascher was going forward more often though his determination to shoot can be utterly exasperating.

Aurelio was about the only positional move I thought was very good - otherwise it was the intent and approach to the game that the players carried out from Rafa which was so encouraging. I'm sure it would have been very tempting in Rafa's mind to take a very controlled approach to the game and make sure we didn't lose 5 in a row but his 4-2-3-1 never really became a 4-5-1 as some feared. If anything it sometimes looked like a 4-1-3-2 and for that he deserves great support. It was a very gutsy approach.
[/quote]

It should have happened after the 1st game as some of us have said.
[/quote]

As far as I could tell, Yossi spent a lot of the game on the right with Kuyt up front.
[/quote]

Indeed so, Keni. Thought I was the only one who saw that.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36712.msg971689#msg971689 date=1256555017]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=36712.msg971639#msg971639 date=1256550833]
Credit to rage, he's not been a twat and ruined this thread.

What a glorious weekend
[/quote]

That shows you the perverse logic someone like that engenders. 'Not being so much of a twat as usual' becomes a great achievement to be applauded. 'Well done, sir, well done!' Talk about lowering expectations!

Anyway...Did you hear the commentator on MOTD2 calling Rafa a 'lucky manager' for winning key games? Must be great to get through so much flak, win a crucial game with a clear use of intelligent tactics and then be called lucky!
[/quote]

Worst still that the guy tried to make out it was a common conception that Rafa was known as lucky. I've never heard that uttered once, maybe in the aftermath of Istanbul, but certainly not after we trounced Chelsea, United and Madrid (twice each) last season.

Baffling!

 

[gkmacca]

It was a bit weird, MOTD2, last night. Hansen was excellent, but Chiles showed a 'humorous' clip of beachballs being thrown by the mancs when it was clearly the Kop, then he claimed the ref picked one up...and the clip showed Phil Dowd! Very clumsy editing.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36712.msg971689#msg971689 date=1256555017]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=36712.msg971639#msg971639 date=1256550833]
Credit to rage, he's not been a twat and ruined this thread.

What a glorious weekend
[/quote]

That shows you the perverse logic someone like that engenders. 'Not being so much of a twat as usual' becomes a great achievement to be applauded. 'Well done, sir, well done!' Talk about lowering expectations!

Anyway...Did you hear the commentator on MOTD2 calling Rafa a 'lucky manager' for winning key games? Must be great to get through so much flak, win a crucial game with a clear use of intelligent tactics and then be called lucky!
[/quote]
Well said that man.

 

[The Slugmonster]

Where are all the boys that were calling for his head during the week? 😱

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36712.msg971563#msg971563 date=1256540169]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=36712.msg971556#msg971556 date=1256538950]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36712.msg971196#msg971196 date=1256493716]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36712.msg971137#msg971137 date=1256491702]
so when we lose 4 in a row it's too early to judge him but when we beat what is arguably the weakest utd side in nearly 20 years he's a legend?

we dominated the scum today and aurelio on the left helping out insua and still being skillful enough to get forward was an excellent tactical decision.

playing agger ahead of skertel should be done more often as should playing yossi behind torres. would have liked him to have made subs before utd hit the bar as there was a period of pressure that we were struggling with.

today was a good day, lets hope he can carry the momentum into the fulham game.
[/quote]

You're a wanker.
[/quote]

What exactly is wrong with what he's written here..?
[/quote]

Nothing is wrong with it, but its a little bit through the looking glass that a unequivocally joyous win prompts a sort of conciliatory tone from a Liverpool fan.

Anyway, this is supposed to be a happy occasion, lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.
[/quote]

In fairness, it's showing a lot more objectivity on this topic than those who just want to insult Rage every time he shows up...

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=36712.msg971694#msg971694 date=1256555585]
[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36712.msg971689#msg971689 date=1256555017]
[quote author=Fabio Alrighty-o link=topic=36712.msg971639#msg971639 date=1256550833]
Credit to rage, he's not been a twat and ruined this thread.

What a glorious weekend
[/quote]

That shows you the perverse logic someone like that engenders. 'Not being so much of a twat as usual' becomes a great achievement to be applauded. 'Well done, sir, well done!' Talk about lowering expectations!

Anyway...Did you hear the commentator on MOTD2 calling Rafa a 'lucky manager' for winning key games? Must be great to get through so much flak, win a crucial game with a clear use of intelligent tactics and then be called lucky!
[/quote]

Worst still that the guy tried to make out it was a common conception that Rafa was known as lucky. I've never heard that uttered once, maybe in the aftermath of Istanbul, but certainly not after we trounced Chelsea, United and Madrid (twice each) last season.

Baffling!
[/quote]

Yeah, they call Trapatoni a lucky manager too.

 

[doctor_mac]

Sven has always been known as a lucky manager.

 

[gkmacca]

To Sven's immense frustration, however, the 'Lucky Manager' trophy is always kept on the top shelf, so he can never reach it.

 

[themn]

Where's Glock ?

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=themn link=topic=36712.msg971908#msg971908 date=1256571020]
Where's Glock ?
[/quote]

Begging Rafael to have dinner with him again.

 

[rage]

i see the rafa lovers are out in force today. funny how the measurements for success change from lets wait till the end of the season to just winning one game.

my expectations are high, i refuse to allow us to become that second tier team that judges success based upon all they do is beat their rivals. smells a lot like an everton supporter - we'll never win the league but as long as we beat x team that's a great season.

what do people think rafa has learned from yesterday?

- agger is a better compliment to carra than skertel is?
- yossi should play on the right or behind torres?
- aurelio should start ahead of insua whenever possible?
- n'gog should get pitch time ahead of voronin?
- playing a formation we are comfortable with is far more effective than some of the crazy stuff he has come up with recently?

i'm looking forward to tuesday, i'm happy for all you rafa lovers to be critical of me but just remember - the season isn't won in october and rafa has form in fucking things up.

 

[Squiggles]

The measurements for success haven't changed at all;

We've still had a shit start to the season, for which Benitez is culpable. But if anything can turn it around, it's a win against the Mancs.

Agree with your learning points.

 

[spider-Neil]

my respect for rafa grew when he refused to blame the beach ball for the s'land loss which would have done s'land a disservice. that was class. it's easy to be gracious in victory much harder to do it in defeat.

 

[rage]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=36712.msg971922#msg971922 date=1256572655]
The measurements for success haven't changed at all;

We've still had a shit start to the season, for which Benitez is culpable. But if anything can turn it around, it's a win against the Mancs.

Agree with your learning points.
[/quote]

yes lets hope a win against the mancs turns around our season so far.

on that note i think the arsenal game is now bigger than it was before yesterday

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36712.msg971919#msg971919 date=1256572221]
i see the rafa lovers are out in force today. funny how the measurements for success change from lets wait till the end of the season to just winning one game.

my expectations are high, i refuse to allow us to become that second tier team that judges success based upon all they do is beat their rivals. smells a lot like an everton supporter - we'll never win the league but as long as we beat x team that's a great season.

what do people think rafa has learned from yesterday?

- agger is a better compliment to carra than skertel is?
- yossi should play on the right or behind torres?
- aurelio should start ahead of insua whenever possible?
- n'gog should get pitch time ahead of voronin?
- playing a formation we are comfortable with is far more effective than some of the crazy stuff he has come up with recently?

i'm looking forward to tuesday, i'm happy for all you rafa lovers to be critical of me but just remember - the season isn't won in october and rafa has form in fucking things up.


[/quote]

You don't sound very happy to me!

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36712.msg971923#msg971923 date=1256572921]
my respect for rafa grew when he refused to blame the beach ball for the s'land loss which would have done s'land a disservice. that was class. it's easy to be gracious in victory much harder to do it in defeat.
[/quote]

Yes, and, true to form, someone on Sky was claiming that refusal was proof that he'd lost his fighting spirit! They're so jaundiced they can't actually understand a decent gesture.

 

[rage]

[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36712.msg971938#msg971938 date=1256573994]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36712.msg971919#msg971919 date=1256572221]
i see the rafa lovers are out in force today. funny how the measurements for success change from lets wait till the end of the season to just winning one game.

my expectations are high, i refuse to allow us to become that second tier team that judges success based upon all they do is beat their rivals. smells a lot like an everton supporter - we'll never win the league but as long as we beat x team that's a great season.

what do people think rafa has learned from yesterday?

- agger is a better compliment to carra than skertel is?
- yossi should play on the right or behind torres?
- aurelio should start ahead of insua whenever possible?
- n'gog should get pitch time ahead of voronin?
- playing a formation we are comfortable with is far more effective than some of the crazy stuff he has come up with recently?

i'm looking forward to tuesday, i'm happy for all you rafa lovers to be critical of me but just remember - the season isn't won in october and rafa has form in fucking things up.


[/quote]

You don't sound very happy to me!
[/quote]

i'm in a no lose situation. we win the league, i'm ecstatic and don't care i got it wrong about rafa. we fuck up again, i'm proven right. of course i'm happy. yesterday i saw the end of a team that had dominated the league for over a generation.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=gkmacca link=topic=36712.msg971941#msg971941 date=1256574233]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=36712.msg971923#msg971923 date=1256572921]
my respect for rafa grew when he refused to blame the beach ball for the s'land loss which would have done s'land a disservice. that was class. it's easy to be gracious in victory much harder to do it in defeat.
[/quote]

Yes, and, true to form, someone on Sky was claiming that refusal was proof that he'd lost his fighting spirit! They're so jaundiced they can't actually understand a decent gesture.
[/quote]


very few know what they are talking about to be honest and some are so clueless you wonder how they managed to get into the position in the first place.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36712.msg971944#msg971944 date=1256574481]
i'm in a no lose situation. we win the league, i'm ecstatic and don't care i got it wrong about rafa. we fuck up again, i'm proven right. of course i'm happy. yesterday i saw the end of a team that had dominated the league for over a generation.
[/quote]

God, I'm finding it hard to stop myself from thinking that about them lot as Ferguson has been able to rebuild his team again and again. But, you know, for his new team, who are the core player he's got to build it around? Ferdinand, Vidic, Fletcher, Evra, and Rooney?

 

[gkmacca]

It's a ridiculous over-reaction, although self-admiringly dramatic, to write-off the mancs as if that was a definitive result. They're in a transitionary period. Wait and see.

 

[rage]

ferguson hasn't got age on his side to complete another rebuild. scholes and giggs haven't much left. their spine has vidic, ferdinand, fletcher and rooney. only rooney is world class.

not sure who they play next in the league but if we can see them drop a few more points upto xmas then that will be the end of them under ferguson.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=rage link=topic=36712.msg971944#msg971944 date=1256574481]
[quote author=Tinto link=topic=36712.msg971938#msg971938 date=1256573994]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36712.msg971919#msg971919 date=1256572221]
i see the rafa lovers are out in force today. funny how the measurements for success change from lets wait till the end of the season to just winning one game.

my expectations are high, i refuse to allow us to become that second tier team that judges success based upon all they do is beat their rivals. smells a lot like an everton supporter - we'll never win the league but as long as we beat x team that's a great season.

what do people think rafa has learned from yesterday?

- agger is a better compliment to carra than skertel is?
- yossi should play on the right or behind torres?
- aurelio should start ahead of insua whenever possible?
- n'gog should get pitch time ahead of voronin?
- playing a formation we are comfortable with is far more effective than some of the crazy stuff he has come up with recently?

i'm looking forward to tuesday, i'm happy for all you rafa lovers to be critical of me but just remember - the season isn't won in october and rafa has form in fucking things up.


[/quote]

You don't sound very happy to me!
[/quote]

i'm in a no lose situation. we win the league, i'm ecstatic and don't care i got it wrong about rafa. we fuck up again, i'm proven right. of course i'm happy. yesterday i saw the end of a team that had dominated the league for over a generation.
[/quote]

Your happiness derived from being correct vs Liverpool fucking up should not be a balanced "no lose". I think that's what sticks in people's craws.

I agree with Macca, writing off the Mancs is silly, premature, and usually doesn't end well. They are certainly in a rebuild cycle, but they've a manager at present that's been through that cycle several times.

 

[gkmacca]

Brian Reade is on TV at the moment, and he was asked why so many in the media have always seemed to be against Benitez, and he stressed the fact that many of them these days have massive egos and hate to be proven wrong, and Rafa has always had the irritating knack of proving them wrong. He said he knew of several colleagues who were desperately pissed off after yesterday's match. It's a bit simplistic, but there's an element of truth in what he says. Certainly characters like Harry Harris and Ian McGarry fit that argument very neatly.

 

[Red Mullet]

People that think they're always right and have nothing to lose are cocks.