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Post-match Madrid Talk

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There is a difference between criticizing the manager and calling for his head. I wish people could make that distinction. And anyone who hasn't been living in a cave will have seen or heard about Rodger's team selection and the reaction to it. It doesn't reflect well on Rodgers or the club, and if you believe his explanation for it then you're away with the fairies.


So his explanation for his team selection makes him a liar and he acts in a way that "doesn't reflect well" I'd say that could be construed as bringing the club into disrepute.

Why continue with a Manager you can't trust to make an acceptable team selection and protect the good name of the club in the opinion of critics?

Personally I thought his team gave everything but came up short in attack, exactly as all other combinations of the first team squad have so far this season.
 
I think people are (purposely?) confusing the issue. It's not necessarily the fact that certain players were dropped, it's was the scale and obvious nature of the changes and the message it sent out.

I can appreciate that some might people might not view it as terribly offensive, that's cool, but to try and explain it all away as pragmatism based on poor performances of first choice players or anything else... wow.


I'd say let the appointed manager manage. If you're going to hamstring his team selections (based on whatever it is your basing the criticism on) then why continue with him?

As far as I'm concerned you have to respect his right to pick teams as he sees fit until such time as you believe he has taken the team as far as he can. Then you should replace him and you should definitely not be saying "told you so" every time things don't go well. It's not going to help is it?
 
I'd say let the appointed manager manage. If you're going to hamstring his team selections (based on whatever it is your basing the criticism on) then why continue with him?

As far as I'm concerned you have to respect his right to pick teams as he sees fit until such time as you believe he has taken the team as far as he can. Then you should replace him and you should definitely not be saying "told you so" every time things don't go well. It's not going to help is it?


In terms of the bolded part, I'm not doing anything of the kind. I'm posting on a fairly low profile forum and when I do that, I feel that I'm entitled to express my views on the club, manager, players and anything else football related that takes my fancy safe in the knowledge that no one really cares what I have to say.

You're basically suggesting that criticism of any kind is undermining the manager and calling into question his position, which is quite frankly nonsense and you know it.
 
James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 57s
58 seconds ago
Rodgers: "Our idea was to stay in the game for 60/65 mins and then open up the game in the closing stages. I was very proud of the players."

James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 2m
2 minutes ago
Rodgers: "I put out the best team I thought could get a result v RM. My players were magnificent on the night."

James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 5s
5 seconds ago
Rodgers: "It (criticism) doesn't affect me in any way, You just have to focus on your job. I make decisions in the best interests of LFC."

Liverpool Echo ‏@LivEchoLFC 2m
2 minutes ago
RT @JamesPearceEcho: Rodgers: "Steven Gerrard had a scan on his hamstring on the Monday before we travelled out."
 
James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 57s
58 seconds ago
Rodgers: "Our idea was to stay in the game for 60/65 mins and then open up the game in the closing stages. I was very proud of the players."

James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 2m
2 minutes ago
Rodgers: "I put out the best team I thought could get a result v RM. My players were magnificent on the night."

James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 5s
5 seconds ago
Rodgers: "It (criticism) doesn't affect me in any way, You just have to focus on your job. I make decisions in the best interests of LFC."

James Pearce ‏@JamesPearceEcho 2m
2 minutes ago
Rodgers: "We're in regular contact with Origi. He's a wonderful talent. We analyse his games in France and give him feedback."


I like this.
 
So the Gerrard decision pretty much pisses on all of the humpties who've moaned about it. So does anyone want to give legitimate arguements why Mario or say, Lovren should have played?

I see no one has still bothered their arse to explain why changing a side that was dead and buried by half time in the home leg, is such an embarrassment, when the lads who stepped in did better away from home.

It's comendable that Rodgers didn't pull out the Gerrard reason on Tuesday when he could have done, in the face of pricks in the media crucifying him. As said, people are more or less moaning because he didn't do the fashionable thing. Fair play to Rodgers, it was a brave move, when he could have stuck with what didn't work first time around.
 
He said Gerrard had a scan, I would actually think that Gerrard has scans all the time, and still plays. But anyway.

The point is why did he chose one of the biggest games of the season to make 7 changes, and drop some of the main stays of the side. Why were all those players(Henderson, Sterling, Lovren, Gerrard, Balotelli) good enough up to that point, but all of a sudden not good enough when it comes to Real?

It would be a lot less strange if dropped at least a few of them in the games leading up to it, but he didn't. He left it to this huge game, on the biggest stage.

He got away with it, but he did it because he figured he had nothing to lose against Madrid, and he prioritised other games.
 
So his explanation for his team selection makes him a liar and he acts in a way that "doesn't reflect well" I'd say that could be construed as bringing the club into disrepute.

Why continue with a Manager you can't trust to make an acceptable team selection and protect the good name of the club in the opinion of critics?

Personally I thought his team gave everything but came up short in attack, exactly as all other combinations of the first team squad have so far this season.

You're taking every comment to its most extreme conclusion, just as you did with the article. I might leave you and your straw man to fight it out amongst yourselves.
 
It's comendable that Rodgers didn't pull out the Gerrard reason on Tuesday when he could have done, in the face of pricks in the media crucifying him. As said, people are more or less moaning because he didn't do the fashionable thing. Fair play to Rodgers, it was a brave move, when he could have stuck with what didn't work first time around.


Disagree. At the time he said he was going to rest Gerrard he hadn't actually had any criticism. He invited it by saying he was going to rest Gerrard and framing it with the message of 'we've got some important games coming up'. He then got a barrage of abuse, before and after the game, and has now come out with 'well he was injured anyway'. I don't actually think it's commendable at all. Either mention Gerrard's injury or don't, don't do it just when it suits.

EDIT: Though I appreciate what you're saying is that he could have said it immediately after the game but didn't.

Like I think I said before, I don't mind that he changed the team around given how shite we've been playing, I just don't like the timing of it and how he framed it. He is well within his rights to drop a number of the players who have been playing crap and I would have had no problem with it. But the message he sent out before the game was submissive and it has left a sour taste in the mouth.
 
There's no arguing the fact that Rodgers rested a bunch of players for the Chelsea game.
All this bickering about us playing a reserve side or whatever will be forgotten when we beat Chelsea.
 
So the Gerrard decision pretty much pisses on all of the humpties who've moaned about it. So does anyone want to give legitimate arguements why Mario or say, Lovren should have played?

I see no one has still bothered their arse to explain why changing a side that was dead and buried by half time in the home leg, is such an embarrassment, when the lads who stepped in did better away from home.

It's comendable that Rodgers didn't pull out the Gerrard reason on Tuesday when he could have done, in the face of pricks in the media crucifying him. As said, people are more or less moaning because he didn't do the fashionable thing. Fair play to Rodgers, it was a brave move, when he could have stuck with what didn't work first time around.


Do you actually believe what you're posting or are you just trolling?

I'm not really sure any more.
 
You're taking every comment to its most extreme conclusion, just as you did with the article. I might leave you and your straw man to fight it out amongst yourselves.


I did it to highlight the absurdity of the thought that a Liverpool Manager shouldn't pick his own team and utilize the squad in the way he sees fit because it might offend the sensibilities of some fans and some journalists who seem to have the idea that people outside the club give but a fleeting thought to image of Liverpool FC.

Real Madrid 1 Liverpool 0 is in the record books and a week from now no-one will give it a second thought. All this angst is pathetic.

Anyway I'm glad Rodgers had the courage of his convictions even if it didn't end in success this time. That single minded trait is right up there with the best Liverpool Managers. I think he deserves a bit more respect.
 
The idea that Real played as well, and tried as hard, as they did at Anfield, ergo the team that only lost 1-0 was in some sense much more impressive than the other one, is so laughably bad it strikes a new low. Real coasted through that game. The whole ground knew they were playing against a side that had given up and was there for damage limitation. If that's really now going to be redescribed as a triumph then frankly it's not worth bothering with.
 
Do you actually believe what you're posting or are you just trolling?

I'm not really sure any more.

Why? Like I said, no one has really tackled the issue that our better players got battered at home, I don't really get the uproar for him changing the team and ultimately fairing better and actually taking something from the game. It seems like he didn't do what was fashionable and it got peoples backs up. The players he brought in were equally expensive investments, more so in some cases, so it was hardly a case of him weakening us, he brought in expensive internationals who had, at some point, to show they could do something, a few of them did quite well and a few fringe players showed there's depth in the squad.

It's amazing that you, Macca and a few others seem to think that's I'm trolling because I don't buy the bollocks being posted about fashionable "what the papers would have wanted" line ups. Rodgers didn't have to go there and change it, but he felt it was necessary to shut up shop and then try to open up, we kept it tight and the gameplan nearly worked. There have been enough comments of late about him not having an alternative tack, that he only knows how to play one way, etc. He changes it and there's mass uproar. Whatever he does he's wrong then isn't he and as Jexy said, people may aswell throw in the towel and at least have the balls to say what they really think, because he's clearly losing faith already 5 months after catapulting us to 2nd and raising our ambitions early.

YNWA by arse.
 
Why ask?, as you said before no-one really cares.

He probably just "feels entitled to express his views".

Do you really care? Is that the problem here?

Has this really terrible criticism following the Real game really got you down?
 
The idea that Real played as well, and tried as hard, as they did at Anfield, ergo the team that only lost 1-0 was in some sense much more impressive than the other one, is so laughably bad it strikes a new low. Real coasted through that game. The whole ground knew they were playing against a side that had given up and was there for damage limitation. If that's really now going to be redescribed as a triumph then frankly it's not worth bothering with.

Come on, that's just pathetic really, there were enough times we broke up incisive moves by Real with some good organisation and determination.

By your reckoning, our other lineup could have gone on to a real embarrassment (not a, "look what should have happened with that lineup" one), had Madrid not took their foot off the gas after 45 minutes two weeks ago.

No one said it was a triumph, it just wasn't as catastrophic as you and a few others predicted, the fact you're now saying that the only reason the score was low is because Madrid didn't try is just a joke, given they snotted the side you wanted to see.
 
The idea that Real played as well, and tried as hard, as they did at Anfield, ergo the team that only lost 1-0 was in some sense much more impressive than the other one, is so laughably bad it strikes a new low. Real coasted through that game. The whole ground knew they were playing against a side that had given up and was there for damage limitation. If that's really now going to be redescribed as a triumph then frankly it's not worth bothering with.


I couldn't give a shit what Real did or didn't do. I wanted a Liverpool team to win, they didn't, tough there'll be another day. I just saw the Reds and wanted to support them, I didn't consider politics.

I'll want them to beat Chelsea as well and I won't care who is in the team either.
 
I did it to highlight the absurdity of the thought that a Liverpool Manager shouldn't pick his own team and utilize the squad in the way he sees fit because it might offend the sensibilities of some fans and some journalists who seem to have the idea that people outside the club give but a fleeting thought to image of Liverpool FC.

Real Madrid 1 Liverpool 0 is in the record books and a week from now no-one will give it a second thought. All this angst is pathetic.

You're still doing it. But amazingly, the straw man is winning.
 
It's amazing that you, Macca and a few others seem to think that's I'm trolling because I don't buy the bollocks being posted about fashionable "what the papers would have wanted" line ups.



Mark, take a long breath, sit back, reflect on why your holier than thou attitude, combined with this kind of claim that we ARE 'buying' the bollocks in the papers (rather than simply reaching different conclusions to your own) is pretty offensive, and then either recognise that you're being just as insulting as you claim people are to you, or ignore the rest of us.
 
I couldn't give a shit what Real did or didn't do. I wanted a Liverpool team to win, they didn't, tough there'll be another day. I just saw the Reds and wanted to support them, I didn't consider politics.

I'll want them to beat Chelsea as well and I won't care who is in the team either.


Hang on, I'll make you a medal.
 
What holier than thou attitude? You'd think I've never criticised a player or a manager, I've said enough about God knows how many players and managers over the years. If he makes a stupid decision or he's being a stubborn fool, I'll call it. I'm just not ready to jump on the guy before a ball has even been kicked in a game. He at least had a plan, and as far as I can see, it went against his usual ethos and it nearly worked. If you don't see some value in that, then that's your problem.
 
Why? Like I said, no one has really tackled the issue that our better players got battered at home, I don't really get the uproar for him changing the team and ultimately fairing better and actually taking something from the game. It seems like he didn't do what was fashionable and it got peoples backs up. The players he brought in were equally expensive investments, more so in some cases, so it was hardly a case of him weakening us, he brought in expensive internationals who had, at some point, to show they could do something, a few of them did quite well and a few fringe players showed there's depth in the squad.

It's amazing that you, Macca and a few others seem to think that's I'm trolling because I don't buy the bollocks being posted about fashionable, what the papers would have wanted, line ups. Rodgers didn't have to go there and change it, but he felt it was necessary to shut up shop and then try to open up, we kept it tight and the gameplan nearly worked. There have been enough comments of late about him not having an alternative tack, that he only knows how to play one way, etc. He changes it and there's mass uproar. Whatever he does he's wrong then isn't he and as Jexy said, people may aswell throw in the towel and at least have the balls to say what they really think, because he's clearly losing faith already 5 months after catapulting us to 2nd and raising our ambitions early.

YNWA by arse.


I responded to your post in the match thread and I thought it was rather telling that you chose to ignore it (unless I missed your response) and continued to bang on about Gerrard being dropped and other selective points.

I have no idea what is considered fashionable, but I'm glad you view yourself as such an individual and can clearly see through the agenda the rest of us are either pushing or buying (fucking seriously). I also dislike the fact that you have a tendency to aggregate a load of other complaints into your rants that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand (see: only knows how to play one way) - I'd like to think that this isn't a rather cynical tactic but either way it simply muddies the waters both in terms of who you are addressing and the argument you're making.

As I've said before, it's not one or two changes in isolation, it was the scale of the changes, the message that was sent out and the display we saw in the first half, which - and I am sorry this offends you - was fucking embarrassing. It's not just myself that noted that Real Madrid were in 2nd or 3rd gear. This is not some agenda driven nonsense to try and support any predetermined notion (I, for one, desperately wanted us to do well and for Rodgers team to succeed) nor is it trying to bring down the team in any way. It's simply based on the evidence on show.

If you can take a load of positives from that game, fine, good for you. If you think that Rodgers made sweeping changes to the team and included a couple of players who between them barely have a handful of starts away from the Carling Cup this season to play Real Madrid at the Bernabeu based on some kind of clear tactical master plan, well, I don't know what to say really. I still don't think you or anyone else really believes that... but if you do, fine.

It'll be interesting to see who starts against Chelsea this weekend. Hopefully Rodgers will reward those who played well.
 
I responded to your post in the match thread and I thought it was rather telling that you chose to ignore it (unless I missed your response) and continued to bang on about Gerrard being dropped and other selective points.

I have no idea what is considered fashionable, but I'm glad you view yourself as such an individual and can clearly see through the agenda the rest of us are either pushing or buying (fucking seriously). I also dislike the fact that you have a tendency to aggregate a load of other complaints into your rants that have nothing to do with the discussion at hand (see: only knows how to play one way) - I'd like to think that this isn't a rather cynical tactic but either way it simply muddies the waters both in terms of who you are addressing and the argument you're making.

As I've said before, it's not one or two changes in isolation, it's the scale of the changes, the message that was sent out and the display we saw in the first half, which - and I am sorry this offends you - was fucking embarrassing. It's not just myself that noted that Real Madrid were in 2nd or 3rd gear. This is not some agenda driven nonsense to try and support any predetermined notion (I, for one, desperately wanted us to do well and for Rodgers team to succeed) nor is it trying to bring down the team in any way. It's simply based on the evidence on show.

If you can take a load of positives from that game, fine, good for you. If you think that Rodgers made sweeping changes to the team and included a couple of players who between them barely have a handful of starts away from the Carling Cup this season to play Real Madrid at the Bernabeu based on some kind of clear tactical master plan, well, I don't know what to say really. I still don't think you or anyone else really believes that... but if you do, fine.

It'll be interesting to see who starts against Chelsea this weekend. Hopefully Rodgers will reward those who played well.

I didn't see your response in the match thread, or I don't recall doing so, I generally respond to your replies as I always have done and generally respect your opinion, even if (like with anyone) I don't always agree (I agree more often than not).

I never said it was a "masterplan", I never suggested that one bit, I said i could "understand" the changes. I said a few times that it's not just on the back of the home game, it's on the back of Newcastle, Hull, West Ham, Basel, etc.. We've been woeful for a while. Ok, so people think it was the wrong game to do it, if it was the first game against them I'd agree, if he looked at the whole thing and decided to have a rethink, I'd also agree. I'm not wholeheartedly saying I would have played that lineup, there was room for Coutinho at least, Sterling is in poor form and looks jaded, he also looked outclassed and outmuscled in the first game. I'm not sure there's really a case to make for Mario or Lovren, I've said that. Who does that leave? Gerrard? Like I said, the crux of the dismay (to me at least) seems to surround his eventual rest/drop, it had to happen at some point, at least the injury comment sheds a different light on why, but in any game lately it wouldn't have really been unreasonable. Like I said, the players who came in, regardless of appearances, we're given an opportunity to show what they could do and we've taken positives and a bit of a rethink into the Chelsea game, which is better than us just tossing the same lineup week in, week out in the hope that something finally sticks.
 
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