Origi

[Kay Age El]

Can't forget that KHL started a thread titled 'IRONMANNN' when he signed.

For my own sanity I had to go back and make a search to find more of this preposterous (and maybe true, claim), cheers Dmish.

I can't seem to find an 'Ironman' themed thread however I did locate what seems to be the first one about us going to sign him - and here's what I said back then:

The vital part here is that he has got to come on cheap otherwise we should stay well clear.

He's not as big a physical presence or as quick as Masher and he doesn't pass and read the game as well as Alonso.

He's better than both in the air and is probably as strong in his tackles.

Overall I'd be very surprised to see this transfer but as a cheap back-up option for Masher he'd be decent I reckon. NEVER as a straight Alonso-replacement.

I won't believe for one minute that's our intention.

I am slightly relieved to be honest, I can live with those comments, and as we all know that could've been much worse from me.

 

[Kay Age El]

He moved around the pitch like he was wearing an iron suit that's for damn sure.

.. must've been what I was trying to tell everyone. He's playing in armor.

 

[rurikbird]

Villarreal play with a flat 4-4-2 and against attacking teams, tend to be disciplined, sit back and hit on the counter - that's my impression from watching some of their games last season, and I think that expectation probably isn't far off again this season. The fact they don't score and concede much in the league probably squares with my anticipation that it will be pretty much how they play against us.

That gives Klopp the option to match their 4-4-2 with Sturridge and Firmino up front, or to go with Firmino behind Sturridge, flanked by Coutinho and Lallana / Milner / Ibe. I think we have more flexibility against Villarreal than against Dortmund in who to pick up front and how to set up.

Origi's loss is huge, obviously (who would've thought of that early in the season?), but I think we'll miss him less in the EL semis than had we lost him for the quarter finals against Dortmund.

Good, if they choose to sit back then Sturridge is actually a better choice than Origi, because he is more of a goal-scoring threat in tight spaces. An away goal could be crucial.

Can is another big loss; we will probably have to switch to a midfield 3 once again to have any chance of winning the midfield battle. Lucas's performance against Everton gave me plenty of cause for concern – sure his passing and the assist was good and some people actually thought he played well overall, but the way he was bypassed so easily in the first 20 minutes and left our back 4 with no protection on several occasions would have been punished by a better and more confident team than Everton. I didn't see the Bournemouth game, so can't comment on Stewart's performance, but at this point neither of these two options (or the option of using Allen deeper in midfield than he has usually played under Klopp) fills me with much confidence.

 

[Judge Jules]

Agreed. It's potentially a serious problem, and IMO our highest priority to address in the summer transfer window.

 

[reuque]

 

[mark1975]

Good, if they choose to sit back then Sturridge is actually a better choice than Origi, because he is more of a goal-scoring threat in tight spaces. An away goal could be crucial.

Can is another big loss; we will probably have to switch to a midfield 3 once again to have any chance of winning the midfield battle. Lucas's performance against Everton gave me plenty of cause for concern – sure his passing and the assist was good and some people actually thought he played well overall, but the way he was bypassed so easily in the first 20 minutes and left our back 4 with no protection on several occasions would have been punished by a better and more confident team than Everton. I didn't see the Bournemouth game, so can't comment on Stewart's performance, but at this point neither of these two options (or the option of using Allen deeper in midfield than he has usually played under Klopp) fills me with much confidence.

Yep, which is a big reason why I doubt we'll see a midfield two, because we've been playing three for years and because it papers over our enormous shortcomings. Milner isn't disciplined enough in a two, Allen isn't physical enough and Lucas doesn't cover much ground these days. Stewart is too inexperienced to play in a two, but we might get away with it in a three, the big issue is he's prone to diving in and getting left exposed.

 

[Mystic]

Stewart also isn't in the squad. I think we'll see Allen playing the Lucas role, he seemed to play there against Bournemouth, he'll be a pale imitation of Can though.

 

[Modo]

What is all this talk about Origi being a bigger counter attacking threat than Sturridge?

I know you won't but have a look at his goals:



Has Origi even scored on the counter yet?

 

[Modo]

Stewart also isn't in the squad. I think we'll see Allen playing the Lucas role, he seemed to play there against Bournemouth, he'll be a pale imitation of Can though.

Lucas will play the Lucas role.

 

[mark1975]

What is all this talk about Origi being a bigger counter attacking threat than Sturridge?

I know you won't but have a look at his goals:



Has Origi even scored on the counter yet?

He hasn't been since he came back though, certainly not shielding the ball and then leaving a player for dead. I don't think anyone is really dissing Sturridge, Modo. We all know he's an infinitely better finisher than Origi, but it's horses for courses and all that. No one is trying to rewrite history or anything. I'm not sure the "I know you won't" is a particularly necessary jibe, but anyway, what a fucking player.

 

[mark1975]

Oh and how he likes scoring against Everton and Newcastle..

 

[Modo]

He hasn't been since he came back though, certainly not shielding the ball and then leaving a player for dead. I don't think anyone is really dissing Sturridge, Modo. We all know he's an infinitely better finisher than Origi, but it's horses for courses and all that. No one is trying to rewrite history or anything. I'm not sure the "I know you won't" is a particularly necessary jibe, but anyway, what a fucking player.

Don't take it personally, I don't bother watching half the clips posted here.

What I'm trying to say Mark, is that he's still scoring. He was the best player on the pitch against Bournemouth and he could have got a hatrick. Also, he scored like minutes after coming on against Everton.
So when I read this thread I'm thinking "why all the distrust?"

Personally I think Sturridge is the best option for the Villareal game. He and Coutinho will have to click again to break down their defence.

 

[Modo]

Oh and how he likes scoring against Everton and Newcastle..

Those were some nice goals...

 

[Mystic]

Don't take it personally, I don't bother watching half the clips posted here.

What I'm trying to say Mark, is that he's still scoring. He was the best player on the pitch against Bournemouth and he could have got a hatrick. Also, he scored like minutes after coming on against Everton.
So when I read this thread I'm thinking "why all the distrust?"

Personally I think Sturridge is the best option for the Villareal game. He and Coutinho will have to click again to break down their defence.

I don't think anyone distrusts Sturridge, it's just that he doesn't sacrifice himself as much for the team as Origi meaning that if Sturridge has a bad day, we're practically a man short. I'm gutted that Origi is out, I love the kid, but I'm hardly devastated that we have to accept Sturridge in his place, I'd have probably started him anyway as he has the potential to win the tie on his own, and only a fool doesn't play Sturridge when he's picking up form.

 

[Mystic]

In fact I'd start Firmino at the weekend purely to keep Sturridge 100% fit for Thursday.

 

[Modo]

I don't think anyone distrusts Sturridge, it's just that he doesn't sacrifice himself as much for the team as Origi meaning that if Sturridge has a bad day, we're practically a man short. I'm gutted that Origi is out, I love the kid, but I'm hardly devastated that we have to accept Sturridge in his place, I'd have probably started him anyway as he has the potential to win the tie on his own, and only a fool doesn't play Sturridge when he's picking up form.

I'll be a fool on Saturday though. I would not risk him.

 

[the count]

But if history is anything to go by Sturridge is as likely to get injured getting dressed as he is playing in a footy match.
While I am really sorry to have lost Origi I don't think our team will be weakened by having him replaced by Sturridge.
Having him play in the majority of our remaining games might be an issue though.

 

[Mystic]

But if history is anything to go by Sturridge is as likely to get injured getting dressed as he is playing in a footy match.
While I am really sorry to have lost Origi I don't think our team will be weakened by having him replaced by Sturridge.
Having him play in the majority of our remaining games might be an issue though.

Yep, this is the big worry, I won't feel confident in him starting every / the majority of games until he's had a full injury free preseason behind him. Thankfully we have Firmino to rotate with him, and Firmino has proven he scores goals when he's up top.

 

[the count]

Yep, this is the big worry, I won't feel confident in him starting every / the majority of games until he's had a full injury free preseason behind him. Thankfully we have Firmino to rotate with him, and Firmino has proven he scores goals when he's up top.

Firmino is carrying a bit of an injury as well and isn't the player he was before the international break.

 

[Portly]

Yes Firmino always shines in the "false number 9" setup. In other formations his impact is diminished.

 

[Frogfish]

I hope everton get twatted by the scum because of this. Another 4-0 will do. Cunts.

I would prefer Everton to twat United first and then suffer the agony of losing in the final to Watford.

 

[Portly]

In a fight between the Great Satan and the Little Satan, you have to support the latter - IMO.

 

[Judge Jules]

Watford would have a field day rubbing that in after the blueslime beat them in a previous Final.

 

[Judge Jules]

In a fight between the Great Satan and the Little Satan, you have to support the latter - IMO.

I respectfully dissent. I want them both consigned to the fires of Hell for ever.

 

[dmishra]

Good, if they choose to sit back then Sturridge is actually a better choice than Origi, because he is more of a goal-scoring threat in tight spaces. An away goal could be crucial.

Can is another big loss; we will probably have to switch to a midfield 3 once again to have any chance of winning the midfield battle. Lucas's performance against Everton gave me plenty of cause for concern – sure his passing and the assist was good and some people actually thought he played well overall, but the way he was bypassed so easily in the first 20 minutes and left our back 4 with no protection on several occasions would have been punished by a better and more confident team than Everton. I didn't see the Bournemouth game, so can't comment on Stewart's performance, but at this point neither of these two options (or the option of using Allen deeper in midfield than he has usually played under Klopp) fills me with much confidence.

This happened to Can as well against Dortmund at Anfield. I think this is really the direct result of playing Milner in a midfield two - Milner spends more time on the right flank than the centre of the park, and other midfielder often ends up being swamped by 3 on 1 situations.

If we start a three man midfield with Lucas, Allen and Milner, this should be less of a problem, notwithstanding Lucas' and Allen's lack of physicality. I said in another thread that the Villareal CMs seem to be passers rather than bruisers. So hopefully, Lucas and Allen can cope.

You're also right that Sturridge might be better suited to taking advantage in a tight match than Origi. Having said that, I think for the away game, Klopp will sit Sturridge on the bench and start with Firmino as the false 9.

 

[Hansern]

Firmino needs a bit of match fitness though and should start against Newcastle. He was boss prior to his injury. False 9 or attacking midfield.

Shame about Origi. He's a quick healer so if they say 4-6 weeks I wouldnt rule him out being involved in 3 weeks time.

 

[dmishra]

Even if he recovers in 3-4 weeks, I doubt he'd have the match sharpness to impact our season in any meaningful way.

I think we have to just accept that both Can and Origi will have nothing more to do this season.

 

[Modo]

Firmino needs a bit of match fitness though and should start against Newcastle. He was boss prior to his injury. False 9 or attacking midfield.

Shame about Origi. He's a quick healer so if they say 4-6 weeks I wouldnt rule him out being involved in 3 weeks time.

I've had a similar injury and there is a slight possibility to return quicker if it's not your preferred shooting leg. In this case it was, his right foot.
In two weeks he'll probably be able to run with a heavily bandaged foot but he won't be able to shoot.

 

[Hansern]

Even if he recovers in 3-4 weeks, I doubt he'd have the match sharpness to impact our season in any meaningful way.

I think we have to just accept that both Can and Origi will have nothing more to do this season.

Yep, it probably is.. Just wishful thinking that we could have both available as they would have made quite a difference.

 

[Hansern]

I've had a similar injury and there is a slight possibility to return quicker if it's not your preferred shooting leg. In this case it was, his right foot.
In two weeks he'll probably be able to run with a heavily bandaged foot but he won't be able to shoot.

I've had this several times aswell. These guys have access to whole other level of training and physical work though.
But yes, he's out for the season most likely.