[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39675.msg1083483#msg1083483 date=1270602506]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39675.msg1083476#msg1083476 date=1270601848]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39675.msg1083473#msg1083473 date=1270601587]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39675.msg1083462#msg1083462 date=1270600896]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39675.msg1083456#msg1083456 date=1270600551]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39675.msg1083454#msg1083454 date=1270600221]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39675.msg1083451#msg1083451 date=1270600086]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39675.msg1083441#msg1083441 date=1270598853]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39675.msg1083440#msg1083440 date=1270598621]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=39675.msg1083434#msg1083434 date=1270598207]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39675.msg1083432#msg1083432 date=1270597992]
Ryan, all the best forward players in the world have pace.
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Do they all?
Drogba - yes
Ibrahimovic - yes
Higuain - yes
RVN - (in his prime) yes
Forlan (in his prime) yes, though i don't count him as one of the best despite his goals in Spain.
Arshavin - yes
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Clearly we have a different understanding of the word 'pace'. Apparently,
You - anyone slower than 10.5s over 100m is slow.
Me - anyone who he is quick and has a good burst of acceleration over 10-20m. So I count players like Tevez, Gerrard and Van Persie as quick.. and players like Kuyt, Lucas and Insua as slow.
I must mention it was almost absurd seeing Stephen Carr easily outpace Insua the other day. Now THAT's fecking slow.
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Possibly.
I just don't see pace as being as vital a commodity as others. Most top clubs have 2, sometimes 3 (rarely more) pacy players in their side. We've got that too. Our problem for most of the season is that those two or three have been out injured, and combining that with slow, ponderous football has exacerbated the problem.
We had the same team last year (swop Alonso for Lucas) and teams couldn't live with us.
We don't necessarily need faster players, just better ones.
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I don't think its pace either, its willingness to do everything as a unit and putting pressure as high up the field as humanly possible. attack and defend as a team, this makes passing so easy as there are so many passing options. I've thought for a long time the reason so many of our wide players haven't been as effective as you'd hope is because they are given the ball and exepected to do too much by themselves while the defense hangs back in case we are hit on the break.
its way too cautious, that why when we get after teams we start leaking goals for fun because the defense are asked to do too much because the attacking are up field, the 4-4 with chelsea being a good example.
so basically attacking football is having player confident on the ball to be able to release the ball with one touch rather than controlling and then passing, having lots of stamina so you can move into space and also pressure the opposition high up the field.
pace helps but it isn't the be all and end all unless your plan is to hit teams on the break.
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Well it depends on who you're playing against and who you've got in your team Spidey.
If you've got your best team available and are at home against most sidexs, then yes - I'm all for pressing in the furthest third.
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I don't have a problem with going all out at home, I really don't see the point of two out and out holding midfielders when the opposition will put bodies behind the ball.
away from home a more cautious line up is expected but I still think we should take more risks early on and take more risks pushing up the pitch, sure you may be caught with the ball over the top but the more pressure you put on the opposition the more likely they will make unforced errors. our approach to away games this season has been so wrong and that goes right back to that first game of the season with spurs.
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A lot of good teams sit deep (even at home) to pressure Spidey. Chelsea being a great example. They've got the ability, pace, and gameplan to hit teams effectively on the counter. It helps if you've got players that can carry the ball for 30, 40 yards too; like Essien, Malouda, Lampard, Anelka.
Bar Gerrard, and Torres we haven't got much of that. We kinda did with Riera, which is why Benitez liked him, we kinda do with Babel but his end product's not great. We need better players who can carry and keep the ball. Like City have with Tevez, Bellamy, Adebayor, etc. Anyway, I'm going off on a tangent here.
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it shouldn't be about carrying the ball it should be about passing the ball and moving to recieve the pass back. look at the way barca were moving the ball I have no doubt ALL of them can go on mazy runs but the ball moves faster than you do so pass it. I thought nasri was headless today, running with the ball and allowing barca to crowd him out.
we should be pushing up and squeezing the gap between the midfield and torres as much as possible, look at the difference when we compressed the ball in the final 20 min v brum they were all over the fucking place.
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Birmingham tired, dropped deep, and allowed us to play higher up the pitch. Inevitable really. For most of the game though we were in possession of the ball, so pressing high is a bit inconsequential really. It's what you do with it when you have the ball, how quickly it moves, how easily good (or supposedly good) players find space in tight areas, and thus how many chances you create.
Look at Sunday's game, having more players with pace wouldn't have made much of a difference in that first half, because there was no room to work in. Having a Tevez, an Arshavin, a Rooney, etc etc would have made a difference though. Easy in theory I suppose.
Anyway, I think we're saying the same thing here.
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that person for us is gerrard but he has been hit by injuries and loss of form.
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We need more than Gerrard though Spidey, I've been saying it all fucking year.
Look at the Arsenal away game this season. 1-0 down and he has to drop 30 yards to get the ball and start moving things around quickly. How's the going to hust teams when he's 50 yards from goal? He didn't have to do that last season when we were chasing and winning games late on in matches? Because Alonso was there doing that for him. We've lost Alonso, and not replaecd him.
But even that aside, we need more world class players in attack in support of Torres and Gerrard. I sound like a broken fucking record with this, but we do and it's what we need.
