Lucas to be better than Masher very soon

[Fox]

I predict hardly anyone on here in 6 months time will say Masher is better than Lucas.

The rate he has improved in the last 9 months is extraordinary and very soon will be more useful to us than Masher every was.


That's it really, thank you Rafa for giving us Lucas, what a turnaround

 

[Judge Jules]

Well as Lucas is doing, that's a hopeless exaggeration.

 

[Skullflower]

absolute bollocks.

 

[Rosco]

You know the way Kuyt looks great at times and then woeful at others?

 

[refugee]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=45327.msg1331967#msg1331967 date=1305212018]
absolute bollocks.
[/quote]

/\

 

[Pesam]

a COUPLE OF POINTS....................

It's only 7 or 8 games ago we were losing to the mighty Braga, West Ham, West Brom and Blackpool with Lucas turning in some abject performances. He's improved in recent weeks (and played very well in the last 2 games in particular) but he's not the long term answer if we are to mount a challenge for the title.

Secondly, I still maintain the catalyst for our improved central midfield performances has been Spearing more than Lucas - it's can't be mere coincidence that our upturn in fortunes started since he became a regular.

 

[Jack D Rips]

[quote author=Pesam link=topic=45327.msg1331982#msg1331982 date=1305212474]
a COUPLE OF POINTS....................

It's only 7 or 8 games ago we were losing to the mighty Braga, West Ham, West Brom and Blackpool with Lucas every player on the team turning in some abject performances. He's improved in recent weeks (and played very well in the last 2 games in particular) but he's not the long term answer if we are to mount a challenge for the title.

Secondly, I still maintain the catalyst for our improved central midfield performances has been Spearing more than Lucas - it's can't be mere coincidence that our upturn in fortunes started since he became a regular.
[/quote]

 

[Pesam]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=45327.msg1331996#msg1331996 date=1305212807]
[quote author=Pesam link=topic=45327.msg1331982#msg1331982 date=1305212474]
a COUPLE OF POINTS....................

It's only 7 or 8 games ago we were losing to the mighty Braga, West Ham, West Brom and Blackpool with Lucas every player on the team turning in some abject performances. He's improved in recent weeks (and played very well in the last 2 games in particular) but he's not the long term answer if we are to mount a challenge for the title.

Secondly, I still maintain the catalyst for our improved central midfield performances has been Spearing more than Lucas - it's can't be mere coincidence that our upturn in fortunes started since he became a regular.
[/quote]
[/quote]

Very true but my post was concentrating on the CM position specifically.

 

[Oncy]

Well hes already a better passer than Mascherano. He will never ever be able to defend like Mascher though.

 

[Fox]

wait and see, I predict great things for him

 

[Fabio]

Theres no doubt in my mind that lucas could be a great midfielder for us.....BUT he'll never be as good as mascher. I still think lucas plays best when relied on to be the box to box player we bought. He's made plenty of late runs in to the box and willing to have a strike and his passing ability ha come one in leaps and bounds.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=45327.msg1331959#msg1331959 date=1305211824]
I predict hardly anyone on here in 6 months time will say Masher is better than Lucas.

The rate he has improved in the last 9 months is extraordinary and very soon will be more useful to us than Masher every was.


That's it really, thank you Rafa for giving us Lucas, what a turnaround


[/quote]

He'll still be a different player to Mascherano though Fox. Masher made his name for us on the back of dynamic running, tough tackling and uncompromising defending. He had pace and swash buckling style. Lucas is the complete opposite, tried to pinch the ball from attackers, tries to position himself effectively and provide steady cover.

I like both players so lets not worry about who is better. Masher was better if the sole duty was to act as a DM.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=45327.msg1332012#msg1332012 date=1305213343]
wait and see, I predict great things for him


[/quote]

He's already on the Brazil team and he plays every week for us Fox.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Mascherano was fnatastic.

An odd thread.

 

[Fox]

[quote author=ILD link=topic=45327.msg1332016#msg1332016 date=1305213474]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45327.msg1331959#msg1331959 date=1305211824]
I predict hardly anyone on here in 6 months time will say Masher is better than Lucas.

The rate he has improved in the last 9 months is extraordinary and very soon will be more useful to us than Masher every was.


That's it really, thank you Rafa for giving us Lucas, what a turnaround


[/quote]

He'll still be a different player to Mascherano though Fox. Masher made his name for us on the back of dynamic running, tough tackling and uncompromising defending. He had pace and swash buckling style. Lucas is the complete opposite, tried to pinch the ball from attackers, tries to position himself effectively and provide steady cover.

I like both players so lets not worry about who is better. Masher was better if the sole duty was to act as a DM.
[/quote]

I appreciate your point mate but it is very hard to find two exact type of players (bar keepers) to compare even if they play in the same position.

Let's assume that Stevie will replace Spearing then Lucas will be for us exactly what MAsher was supposed to be.

Lucas tackles and breaks up play superbly nowadays but the added bonus it he can pass forward, quickly and start an attack.

As our "deeper" CM of two he will be better for us than Masher was.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=45327.msg1331959#msg1331959 date=1305211824]
I predict hardly anyone on here in 6 months time will say Masher is better than Lucas.

The rate he has improved in the last 9 months is extraordinary and very soon will be more useful to us than Masher every was.


That's it really, thank you Rafa for giving us Lucas, what a turnaround


[/quote]

He's had a good season but what the fuck are you smoking?

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Fox link=topic=45327.msg1332042#msg1332042 date=1305215086]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=45327.msg1332016#msg1332016 date=1305213474]
[quote author=Fox link=topic=45327.msg1331959#msg1331959 date=1305211824]
I predict hardly anyone on here in 6 months time will say Masher is better than Lucas.

The rate he has improved in the last 9 months is extraordinary and very soon will be more useful to us than Masher every was.


That's it really, thank you Rafa for giving us Lucas, what a turnaround


[/quote]

He'll still be a different player to Mascherano though Fox. Masher made his name for us on the back of dynamic running, tough tackling and uncompromising defending. He had pace and swash buckling style. Lucas is the complete opposite, tried to pinch the ball from attackers, tries to position himself effectively and provide steady cover.

I like both players so lets not worry about who is better. Masher was better if the sole duty was to act as a DM.
[/quote]

I appreciate your point mate but it is very hard to find two exact type of players (bar keepers) to compare even if they play in the same position.

Let's assume that Stevie will replace Spearing then Lucas will be for us exactly what MAsher was supposed to be.

Lucas tackles and breaks up play superbly nowadays but the added bonus it he can pass forward, quickly and start an attack.

As our "deeper" CM of two he will be better for us than Masher was.


[/quote]

Lucas tackles and breaks up play superbly some of the time. He can still be outmuscled though, whereas nobody ever did that to Masher. His passing is improving all the time but still has a way to go - we saw both the best and the worst of it against Fulham, some exquisite through passing side by side with some pretty useless attempts at the longer ball.

There is no way on the face of God's Earth that he will EVER be a better deep-lying CM than Masher.

 

[KopKing]

Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45327.msg1332015#msg1332015 date=1305213469]
Theres no doubt in my mind that lucas could be a great midfielder for us.....BUT he'll never be as good as mascher. I still think lucas plays best when relied on to be the box to box player we bought. He's made plenty of late runs in to the box and willing to have a strike and his passing ability ha come one in leaps and bounds.
[/quote]


He does look better playing closer to the box to box role than a DM because he has a far better all round game than Mascher. However, he doesn't score nearly enough goals to be a great box to box midfielder. His shooting is terrible. I said about 3 months ago if he can cut out the silly free kicks around our penalty area and add some goals then he'll earn his place in our title chasing team next season. He's got one of those ticked off but his shooting really does need to improve. It's no better than Mascher - in fact, not really that good. He could do it in Brazil but it doesn't happen in a Liverpool shirt for some reason.



[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=45327.msg1332015#msg1332015 date=1305213469]
Lucas tackles and breaks up play superbly some of the time. He can still be outmuscled though, whereas nobody ever did that to Masher. His passing is improving all the time but still has a way to go - we saw both the best and the worst of it against Fulham, some exquisite through passing side by side with some pretty useless attempts at the longer ball.

There is no way on the face of God's Earth that he will EVER be a better deep-lying CM than Masher.
[/quote]


That may be reverse psychology Jules but, on the face of it, you leave yourself very open for an experienced poster who's seen enough in this game to know almost anything can happen.

If I had to choose a player I'd take Mascher (despite finding him a detestable wanker) just now but I said this months ago; if Lucas improves next season the way he has this season he'll be an excellent player for us. Mascher won't come into it.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]


In some ways I admire your tenacity KK but, right now, the circumstances in which Lucas was a more valuable player than Mascher would be very rare.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45327.msg1332077#msg1332077 date=1305218202]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=45327.msg1332015#msg1332015 date=1305213469]
Theres no doubt in my mind that lucas could be a great midfielder for us.....BUT he'll never be as good as mascher. I still think lucas plays best when relied on to be the box to box player we bought. He's made plenty of late runs in to the box and willing to have a strike and his passing ability ha come one in leaps and bounds.
[/quote]


He does look better playing closer to the box to box role than a DM because he has a far better all round game than Mascher. However, he doesn't score nearly enough goals to be a great box to box midfielder. His shooting is terrible. I said about 3 months ago if he can cut out the silly free kicks around our penalty area and add some goals then he'll earn his place in our title chasing team next season. He's got one of those ticked off but his shooting really does need to improve. It's no better than Mascher - in fact, not really that good. He could do it in Brazil but it doesn't happen in a Liverpool shirt for some reason.


[/quote]

i agree his shooting needs improvement, but then again he's spent 3 years in his own half ,we can't expect his clinical touch to be back. He needs more confidence. A goal will pump that up rotten

 

[SummerOnions]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]

I think they're different types of footballers and so saying that one is better than the other isn't fair. However since Dalglish has come in and changed our style of play it's allowed Lucas to play his natural game, one which is more suited to us that Mascher's. The system that we use now allows all the midfield (Spearing, Lucas, Meireles) to do little bits of the job that was previously assigned to just Mascherano - one major reason why he looked so good.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45327.msg1332078#msg1332078 date=1305218304]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]


In some ways I admire your tenacity KK but, right now, the circumstances in which Lucas was a more valuable player than Mascher would be very rare.
[/quote]

I just call it as I see it. Mascher is all fur coat and no knickers. He got away with it for us because we had Alonso, at Barca he's been shown up for what he is, he has no one touch game at all and he'd never shift Busquets in a month of Sundays.

 

[the count]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332086#msg1332086 date=1305218874]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45327.msg1332078#msg1332078 date=1305218304]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]


In some ways I admire your tenacity KK but, right now, the circumstances in which Lucas was a more valuable player than Mascher would be very rare.
[/quote]

I just call it as I see it. Mascher is all fur coat and no knickers. He got away with it for us because we had Alonso, at Barca he's been shown up for what he is, he has no one touch game at all and he'd never shift Busquets in a month of Sundays.
[/quote]And yet he was our player of the season last season if memeory serves me right

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=the count link=topic=45327.msg1332088#msg1332088 date=1305219041]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332086#msg1332086 date=1305218874]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45327.msg1332078#msg1332078 date=1305218304]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]


In some ways I admire your tenacity KK but, right now, the circumstances in which Lucas was a more valuable player than Mascher would be very rare.
[/quote]

I just call it as I see it. Mascher is all fur coat and no knickers. He got away with it for us because we had Alonso, at Barca he's been shown up for what he is, he has no one touch game at all and he'd never shift Busquets in a month of Sundays.
[/quote]And yet he was our player of the season last season if memeory serves me right
[/quote]

Lucas was if my memory serves me right. 🙂

I wont harp on about it, I've made my position clear. When you all agree with me, you probably won't remember I told you so, just like I said in July we should bring back King Kenny, Roy was out of his depth and Joe Cole was a poor signing I felt like a lonely soldier. But y'all will come round of that I have no doubt 🙂

 

[the count]

[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332094#msg1332094 date=1305219473]

Lucas was if my memory serves me right. 🙂

I wont harp on about it, I've made my position clear. When you all agree with me, you probably won't remember I told you so, just like I said in July we should bring back King Kenny, Roy was out of his depth and Joe Cole was a poor signing I felt like a lonely soldier. But y'all will come round of that I have no doubt 🙂
[/quote] Maybe on RAWK he was 😉

I dunno why you felt like a lonely soldier by thinking that Roy would be out of his depth and Joe Cole would be a bad signing as there were loads of posters with similar views, including myself, on here.
Perhaps you are again thinking of another site.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=the count link=topic=45327.msg1332096#msg1332096 date=1305219710]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332094#msg1332094 date=1305219473]

Lucas was if my memory serves me right. 🙂

I wont harp on about it, I've made my position clear. When you all agree with me, you probably won't remember I told you so, just like I said in July we should bring back King Kenny, Roy was out of his depth and Joe Cole was a poor signing I felt like a lonely soldier. But y'all will come round of that I have no doubt 🙂
[/quote] Maybe on RAWK he was 😉

I dunno why you felt like a lonely soldier by thinking that Roy would be out of his depth and Joe Cole would be a bad signing as there were loads of posters with similar views, including myself, on here.
Perhaps you are again thinking of another site.
[/quote]

I always get the RAWK thing, I neither post there or frequent there. Honest!! 🙂

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=the count link=topic=45327.msg1332088#msg1332088 date=1305219041]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332086#msg1332086 date=1305218874]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45327.msg1332078#msg1332078 date=1305218304]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]


In some ways I admire your tenacity KK but, right now, the circumstances in which Lucas was a more valuable player than Mascher would be very rare.
[/quote]

I just call it as I see it. Mascher is all fur coat and no knickers. He got away with it for us because we had Alonso, at Barca he's been shown up for what he is, he has no one touch game at all and he'd never shift Busquets in a month of Sundays.
[/quote]And yet he was our player of the season last season if memeory serves me right
[/quote]

On SCM he was, not sure about the offal though..

I think the reason why there are still a few worries is that whilst he's played well and been good this season, it's a bit hard to figure out what he is.

He's been quite good at DM, and he's been quite good at AM..the problem is that he's unlikely to be great at either.

I actually agree with Fabio that if we really want to see the best out of Lucas playing him as a box-to-box midfelder migt be the best thig to do.

 

[KopKing]

[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45327.msg1332102#msg1332102 date=1305220207]
[quote author=the count link=topic=45327.msg1332088#msg1332088 date=1305219041]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332086#msg1332086 date=1305218874]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=45327.msg1332078#msg1332078 date=1305218304]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45327.msg1332074#msg1332074 date=1305217848]
Fox I thoroughly agree, he's better than Masher now. People get blinded by his little legs running and slide tackles and think he's hard. Lucas is a footballer an improving one at that, come the Copa America all arguments will be resolved.
[/quote]


In some ways I admire your tenacity KK but, right now, the circumstances in which Lucas was a more valuable player than Mascher would be very rare.
[/quote]

I just call it as I see it. Mascher is all fur coat and no knickers. He got away with it for us because we had Alonso, at Barca he's been shown up for what he is, he has no one touch game at all and he'd never shift Busquets in a month of Sundays.
[/quote]And yet he was our player of the season last season if memeory serves me right
[/quote]

On SCM he was, not sure about the offal though..

I think the reason why there are still a few worries is that whilst he's played well and been good this season, it's a bit hard to figure out what he is.

He's been quite good at DM, and he's been quite good at AM..the problem is that he's unlikely to be great at either.

I actually agree with Fabio that if we really want to see the best out of Lucas playing him as a box-to-box midfelder migt be the best thig to do.
[/quote]

But we cant have all our midfielders darting in the box, someone has to stay home.

 

[Avmenon]

Granted, but that's the problem.

I think he's done a fantastic job over the past few months, he's taken a lot of crp and he's steadily improved so much so that supporters look for his name in the team sheet.

But I just don't see Lucas as being a good enough DM; and if someone has to (rightly) stay home, should that be Lucas?