Lucas appreciation thread
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[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731796#msg731796 date=1227457091]
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.
Oh, and Rafa too.
[/quote]
It isn't just Rafa though,unless you are implying that all his coaches are yes men or that Rafa has coaches and ignores everything they say.
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.
Oh, and Rafa too.
[/quote]
It isn't just Rafa though,unless you are implying that all his coaches are yes men or that Rafa has coaches and ignores everything they say.
I think that like Momo Lucas would benefit from move. it's obvious that he is not good or strong enough to play centre midfield in the premier league. He might be ok for a mid-table team in Spain but not for us - especially if we have ambitions to win the league. He has never shown anything to justify the fee we paid or the hype that surrounds him. When you watch the Arsenal or united equivants (Ransey, Nani , Anderson etc) they have all shown "something" (albeit not consistently as yet) to justify their reputations. If we could sell him and Pennant for a combinedc £8m to fund bringing in a decent right sided midfield player in January it may be for the best for all parties.
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=28950.msg731903#msg731903 date=1227461021]
Well played Rebel.
Your gunstickingness is brilliant.
[/quote]
this is one of my favourite songs!
everyone now!
[flash=500,400]http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k4Fi9SNIhplGzU5TOx&related=1&canvas=medium.swf[/flash]
Well played Rebel.
Your gunstickingness is brilliant.
[/quote]
this is one of my favourite songs!
everyone now!
[flash=500,400]http://www.dailymotion.com/swf/k4Fi9SNIhplGzU5TOx&related=1&canvas=medium.swf[/flash]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=28950.msg731919#msg731919 date=1227461874]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731796#msg731796 date=1227457091]
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.
Oh, and Rafa too.
[/quote]
It isn't just Rafa though,unless you are implying that all his coaches are yes men or that Rafa has coaches and ignores everything they say.
[/quote]
Well, you'd have to wonder sometimes, wouldn't you?
I mean anybody who thinks that Lucas contributes ANYTHING to this team that those he's keeping out cannot, warrants serious questioning.
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731796#msg731796 date=1227457091]
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.
Oh, and Rafa too.
[/quote]
It isn't just Rafa though,unless you are implying that all his coaches are yes men or that Rafa has coaches and ignores everything they say.
[/quote]
Well, you'd have to wonder sometimes, wouldn't you?
I mean anybody who thinks that Lucas contributes ANYTHING to this team that those he's keeping out cannot, warrants serious questioning.
i Won't back Down by Tom petty
That song wasn't about people who are mentally ill
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731927#msg731927 date=1227462134]
[quote author=refugee link=topic=28950.msg731919#msg731919 date=1227461874]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731796#msg731796 date=1227457091]
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.
Oh, and Rafa too.
[/quote]
It isn't just Rafa though,unless you are implying that all his coaches are yes men or that Rafa has coaches and ignores everything they say.
[/quote]
Well, you'd have to wonder sometimes, wouldn't you?
I mean anybody who thinks that Lucas contributes ANYTHING to this team that those he's keeping out cannot, warrants serious questioning.
[/quote]
Maybe we should ask VIP, I think he has a direct line to Sammy Lee, he might be able to dig up some answers.
[quote author=refugee link=topic=28950.msg731919#msg731919 date=1227461874]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731796#msg731796 date=1227457091]
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.
Oh, and Rafa too.
[/quote]
It isn't just Rafa though,unless you are implying that all his coaches are yes men or that Rafa has coaches and ignores everything they say.
[/quote]
Well, you'd have to wonder sometimes, wouldn't you?
I mean anybody who thinks that Lucas contributes ANYTHING to this team that those he's keeping out cannot, warrants serious questioning.
[/quote]
Maybe we should ask VIP, I think he has a direct line to Sammy Lee, he might be able to dig up some answers.
[quote author=Anita link=topic=28950.msg732295#msg732295 date=1227480704]
I wish Rebel would change his avatar. He just makes me associate mentalist with Mascherano.
[/quote]
didn't Mystic change his avatar to avoid being tainted with the same brush?
I wish Rebel would change his avatar. He just makes me associate mentalist with Mascherano.
[/quote]
didn't Mystic change his avatar to avoid being tainted with the same brush?
[quote author=SummerOnions link=topic=28950.msg732297#msg732297 date=1227480762]
[quote author=Anita link=topic=28950.msg732295#msg732295 date=1227480704]
I wish Rebel would change his avatar. He just makes me associate mentalist with Mascherano.
[/quote]
didn't Mystic change his avatar to avoid being tainted with the same brush?
[/quote]
Haha yeah he did. I told him to change it because I'd think he was Rebel whenever he posted.
[quote author=Anita link=topic=28950.msg732295#msg732295 date=1227480704]
I wish Rebel would change his avatar. He just makes me associate mentalist with Mascherano.
[/quote]
didn't Mystic change his avatar to avoid being tainted with the same brush?
[/quote]
Haha yeah he did. I told him to change it because I'd think he was Rebel whenever he posted.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=28950.msg732400#msg732400 date=1227487949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[/quote]
Sorry Wiz, no bandwagoning here, mate. I just don't rate him.
I have very rarely seen anything in his performances over the past 18 months or so that give me any hope that he'll come good, and I certainly don't think that he's the sole reason we drew yesterday - yes, Mascher was brutal, too - but he was, once again, very poor when presented a chance to show us what he's got.
I hope I'm proven VERY wrong, mate - I just don't see it.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[/quote]
Sorry Wiz, no bandwagoning here, mate. I just don't rate him.
I have very rarely seen anything in his performances over the past 18 months or so that give me any hope that he'll come good, and I certainly don't think that he's the sole reason we drew yesterday - yes, Mascher was brutal, too - but he was, once again, very poor when presented a chance to show us what he's got.
I hope I'm proven VERY wrong, mate - I just don't see it.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg732409#msg732409 date=1227489170]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=28950.msg732400#msg732400 date=1227487949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[/quote]
Sorry Wiz, no bandwagoning here, mate. I just don't rate him.
I have very rarely seen anything in his performances over the past 18 months or so that give me any hope that he'll come good, and I certainly don't think that he's the sole reason we drew yesterday - yes, Mascher was brutal, too - but he was, once again, very poor when presented a chance to show us what he's got.
I hope I'm proven VERY wrong, mate - I just don't see it.
[/quote]
Wasn't really directed at you mate - more the sentiment that most on here seem to share.
He's done little so far but I just think he's got the technique and the touch required as a basic (something Cisse, Babel and Kuyt etc lack). Add to that he plays such a different game when he's with the Brazil squad; different game, players I know but he's got the flair and attacking intent that I think would/should do well for us. We don't see it here which is either because he's too young, Rafa doesn't allow it or he's lacking confidence. All three of those should be fixable - which is a different thing to actually being fixed but its the reason I believe he can be good for us.
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=28950.msg732400#msg732400 date=1227487949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[/quote]
Sorry Wiz, no bandwagoning here, mate. I just don't rate him.
I have very rarely seen anything in his performances over the past 18 months or so that give me any hope that he'll come good, and I certainly don't think that he's the sole reason we drew yesterday - yes, Mascher was brutal, too - but he was, once again, very poor when presented a chance to show us what he's got.
I hope I'm proven VERY wrong, mate - I just don't see it.
[/quote]
Wasn't really directed at you mate - more the sentiment that most on here seem to share.
He's done little so far but I just think he's got the technique and the touch required as a basic (something Cisse, Babel and Kuyt etc lack). Add to that he plays such a different game when he's with the Brazil squad; different game, players I know but he's got the flair and attacking intent that I think would/should do well for us. We don't see it here which is either because he's too young, Rafa doesn't allow it or he's lacking confidence. All three of those should be fixable - which is a different thing to actually being fixed but its the reason I believe he can be good for us.
As per, Wiz is on the ball and offers one of the few insightful and balanced comments on this issue.
My opinion of him in a nutshell yesterday was that he tried things, half the problem is that he makes the 'looking in the opposite direction while playing a ball perfectly into a team mates path' look simple, it almost goes unnoticed, it's when he get's caught out (much like Garcia) that it gets magnified, Mascherano get's away with fucking murder, because he has a defined role, even though it was a completely unnecessary one yesterday.
My opinion of him in a nutshell yesterday was that he tried things, half the problem is that he makes the 'looking in the opposite direction while playing a ball perfectly into a team mates path' look simple, it almost goes unnoticed, it's when he get's caught out (much like Garcia) that it gets magnified, Mascherano get's away with fucking murder, because he has a defined role, even though it was a completely unnecessary one yesterday.
luke speaks............
Lucas Leiva, who started in midfield instead of Xabi Alonso, believes the onus is now on Liverpool to show Saturday's performance was a one-off by defeating Marseille in the Champions League on Wednesday.
"We've just got to try and forget about this and move on to the Marseille game," said Lucas. "We know we need to improve for the next game, but at least we are still up there at the top of the table.
"We'll have to do better on Wednesday, we can't afford to play like this again."
Lucas Leiva, who started in midfield instead of Xabi Alonso, believes the onus is now on Liverpool to show Saturday's performance was a one-off by defeating Marseille in the Champions League on Wednesday.
"We've just got to try and forget about this and move on to the Marseille game," said Lucas. "We know we need to improve for the next game, but at least we are still up there at the top of the table.
"We'll have to do better on Wednesday, we can't afford to play like this again."
Luke, you won't be fucking playing, so I'm already more optimistic, you silly cunt
Rafa jumps to Lucas' defense:
Rafa Benitez today insisted the team as a whole - and not individuals - was responsible for Saturday's frustrating draw with Fulham.
The Reds failed to break the deadlock against Roy Hodgson's men during an encounter Anfield will be quick to forget.
The boss said: "We weren't passing the ball well but it wasn't Lucas, or it wasn't Javier Mascherano, it was the team.
"When we were preparing for the game, I had a clear idea that we could not use four or five players who had played 90 minutes in midweek.
"They all would be tired at the same time, so you try to use players with fresh legs. We had Fernando Torres more or less fresh, Robbie Keane and Lucas.
"That was it. For me that was the difference. We had four or five players without energy and when we played the second half with Mascherano on the pitch and with a higher tempo we were much better than Fulham, and when we brought on Xabi Alonso we had more quality of passing but it was the same situation.
"It wasn't one player who was making the difference, for me it was three or four players."
Benitez added: "This year we have done well after Champions League games and international breaks, but it is always a risk.
"When the players arrive back after internationals you have to push them to focus and it is not easy.
"Fulham were well organised and difficult to break down, the atmosphere was cold so everything was against us.
"It's easier to be well organised and defend than it is to attack. When you attack you have to be more precise and if you make one or two mistakes they can play counter-attack and put you under a little more pressure.
"We didn't have enough quality with the ball and enough energy today, especially in the first half.
"You could see the same thing with Chelsea today.
"Sometimes you have bad days. Today, clearly, was a bad day."
Rafa Benitez today insisted the team as a whole - and not individuals - was responsible for Saturday's frustrating draw with Fulham.
The Reds failed to break the deadlock against Roy Hodgson's men during an encounter Anfield will be quick to forget.
The boss said: "We weren't passing the ball well but it wasn't Lucas, or it wasn't Javier Mascherano, it was the team.
"When we were preparing for the game, I had a clear idea that we could not use four or five players who had played 90 minutes in midweek.
"They all would be tired at the same time, so you try to use players with fresh legs. We had Fernando Torres more or less fresh, Robbie Keane and Lucas.
"That was it. For me that was the difference. We had four or five players without energy and when we played the second half with Mascherano on the pitch and with a higher tempo we were much better than Fulham, and when we brought on Xabi Alonso we had more quality of passing but it was the same situation.
"It wasn't one player who was making the difference, for me it was three or four players."
Benitez added: "This year we have done well after Champions League games and international breaks, but it is always a risk.
"When the players arrive back after internationals you have to push them to focus and it is not easy.
"Fulham were well organised and difficult to break down, the atmosphere was cold so everything was against us.
"It's easier to be well organised and defend than it is to attack. When you attack you have to be more precise and if you make one or two mistakes they can play counter-attack and put you under a little more pressure.
"We didn't have enough quality with the ball and enough energy today, especially in the first half.
"You could see the same thing with Chelsea today.
"Sometimes you have bad days. Today, clearly, was a bad day."
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=28950.msg732418#msg732418 date=1227490108]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg732409#msg732409 date=1227489170]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=28950.msg732400#msg732400 date=1227487949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[/quote]
Sorry Wiz, no bandwagoning here, mate. I just don't rate him.
I have very rarely seen anything in his performances over the past 18 months or so that give me any hope that he'll come good, and I certainly don't think that he's the sole reason we drew yesterday - yes, Mascher was brutal, too - but he was, once again, very poor when presented a chance to show us what he's got.
I hope I'm proven VERY wrong, mate - I just don't see it.
[/quote]
Wasn't really directed at you mate - more the sentiment that most on here seem to share.
He's done little so far but I just think he's got the technique and the touch required as a basic (something Cisse, Babel and Kuyt etc lack). Add to that he plays such a different game when he's with the Brazil squad; different game, players I know but he's got the flair and attacking intent that I think would/should do well for us. We don't see it here which is either because he's too young, Rafa doesn't allow it or he's lacking confidence. All three of those should be fixable - which is a different thing to actually being fixed but its the reason I believe he can be good for us.
[/quote]
I'm sorry but babel and kuyt have technique, its more accurate to say they have a poor first touch. striking the ball with such power its beyond the keeper before he dives takes technique, and babel has also shown he has great close control to get out of tight positions.
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg732409#msg732409 date=1227489170]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=28950.msg732400#msg732400 date=1227487949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=28950.msg731915#msg731915 date=1227461411]
Ouch.
Lucas is as bad a player as we've seen in Red for many, many years...
I dispair when I watch him - He has NOTHING.
[/quote]
I've resisted posting in this thread for fear of being categorized with Rebel as sharing his opinion. As Oncy said its remarkable how he's stuck to his guns in the face of overwhelmingly irrevocable evidence to the contrary. Lucas is certainly never going to be Gerrard nor is he going to be Alonso - not many players are. What amazes me is the desperation some have to find a scapegoat. Everyone wants someone/something to blame when things don't go well but I'm surprised at how willing people are to jump on any bandwagon going by.
I thought Lucas was poor against Fuham though he wasn't as bad as Mascher in the first half and he improved in the 2nd when Mascher went off. Naturally our resident Argentinian has past performances to carry him through one or several poor performances as he's had this season; Lucas has no such luxury. The fact is that no footballer is as bad as Brenden suggests they are as he well knows........ with the exception of Diao. But theres no point taking a middle of the road approach if you want to stimulate discussion so saying Lucas is average would hardly serve.
I'm just surprised that someone who has got such fine touch, playing in a new country and a new position is permitted so little time by almost all members of the forum. If we're looking for a Gerrard type player then it obviously won't be him. But he is still a potentially good player - not the exciting, dynamic player that Gerrard is but he can still be a good player. He needs to get better to be worth the shirt but so does Babel and others.
[/quote]
Sorry Wiz, no bandwagoning here, mate. I just don't rate him.
I have very rarely seen anything in his performances over the past 18 months or so that give me any hope that he'll come good, and I certainly don't think that he's the sole reason we drew yesterday - yes, Mascher was brutal, too - but he was, once again, very poor when presented a chance to show us what he's got.
I hope I'm proven VERY wrong, mate - I just don't see it.
[/quote]
Wasn't really directed at you mate - more the sentiment that most on here seem to share.
He's done little so far but I just think he's got the technique and the touch required as a basic (something Cisse, Babel and Kuyt etc lack). Add to that he plays such a different game when he's with the Brazil squad; different game, players I know but he's got the flair and attacking intent that I think would/should do well for us. We don't see it here which is either because he's too young, Rafa doesn't allow it or he's lacking confidence. All three of those should be fixable - which is a different thing to actually being fixed but its the reason I believe he can be good for us.
[/quote]
I'm sorry but babel and kuyt have technique, its more accurate to say they have a poor first touch. striking the ball with such power its beyond the keeper before he dives takes technique, and babel has also shown he has great close control to get out of tight positions.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=28950.msg732858#msg732858 date=1227544309]
Rafa jumps to Lucas' defense:
Rafa Benitez today insisted the team as a whole - and not individuals - was responsible for Saturday's frustrating draw with Fulham.
The Reds failed to break the deadlock against Roy Hodgson's men during an encounter Anfield will be quick to forget.
The boss said: "We weren't passing the ball well but it wasn't Lucas, or it wasn't Javier Mascherano, it was the team.
"When we were preparing for the game, I had a clear idea that we could not use four or five players who had played 90 minutes in midweek.
"They all would be tired at the same time, so you try to use players with fresh legs. We had Fernando Torres more or less fresh, Robbie Keane and Lucas.
"That was it. For me that was the difference. We had four or five players without energy and when we played the second half with Mascherano on the pitch and with a higher tempo we were much better than Fulham, and when we brought on Xabi Alonso we had more quality of passing but it was the same situation.
"It wasn't one player who was making the difference, for me it was three or four players."
Benitez added: "This year we have done well after Champions League games and international breaks, but it is always a risk.
"When the players arrive back after internationals you have to push them to focus and it is not easy.
"Fulham were well organised and difficult to break down, the atmosphere was cold so everything was against us.
"It's easier to be well organised and defend than it is to attack. When you attack you have to be more precise and if you make one or two mistakes they can play counter-attack and put you under a little more pressure.
"We didn't have enough quality with the ball and enough energy today, especially in the first half.
"You could see the same thing with Chelsea today.
"Sometimes you have bad days. Today, clearly, was a bad day."
[/quote]
The atmosphere was cold, eh?
Benitez is a stubborn twat, isn't he?
Suppose all good managers are.
Rafa jumps to Lucas' defense:
Rafa Benitez today insisted the team as a whole - and not individuals - was responsible for Saturday's frustrating draw with Fulham.
The Reds failed to break the deadlock against Roy Hodgson's men during an encounter Anfield will be quick to forget.
The boss said: "We weren't passing the ball well but it wasn't Lucas, or it wasn't Javier Mascherano, it was the team.
"When we were preparing for the game, I had a clear idea that we could not use four or five players who had played 90 minutes in midweek.
"They all would be tired at the same time, so you try to use players with fresh legs. We had Fernando Torres more or less fresh, Robbie Keane and Lucas.
"That was it. For me that was the difference. We had four or five players without energy and when we played the second half with Mascherano on the pitch and with a higher tempo we were much better than Fulham, and when we brought on Xabi Alonso we had more quality of passing but it was the same situation.
"It wasn't one player who was making the difference, for me it was three or four players."
Benitez added: "This year we have done well after Champions League games and international breaks, but it is always a risk.
"When the players arrive back after internationals you have to push them to focus and it is not easy.
"Fulham were well organised and difficult to break down, the atmosphere was cold so everything was against us.
"It's easier to be well organised and defend than it is to attack. When you attack you have to be more precise and if you make one or two mistakes they can play counter-attack and put you under a little more pressure.
"We didn't have enough quality with the ball and enough energy today, especially in the first half.
"You could see the same thing with Chelsea today.
"Sometimes you have bad days. Today, clearly, was a bad day."
[/quote]
The atmosphere was cold, eh?
Benitez is a stubborn twat, isn't he?
Suppose all good managers are.
I think Wiz's point is that he can look quite elegant in possession, his touch is good, and despite going for relatively easy range passes, his vision and awareness of those around him is also pretty good.
Babel and Kuyt don't have great technique on the ball, though the latter has improved his touch and control a hell of a lot this season, Babel shows good 'skill' occasionally but his touch and technique on the ball can often be well lacking.
Babel and Kuyt don't have great technique on the ball, though the latter has improved his touch and control a hell of a lot this season, Babel shows good 'skill' occasionally but his touch and technique on the ball can often be well lacking.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=28950.msg732873#msg732873 date=1227545004]
I think Wiz's point is that he can look quite elegant in possession, his touch is good, and despite going for relatively easy range passes, his vision and awareness of those around him is also pretty good.
Babel and Kuyt don't have great technique on the ball, though the latter has improved his touch and control a hell of a lot this season, Babel shows good 'skill' occasionally but his touch and technique on the ball can often be well lacking.
[/quote]
hmm technique and skill are the same thing aren't they? I'll conceed babel's touch is piss poor but his control in tight areas is fantastic, look what he did to wes brown on the touch line. look at the gap he squeezed through to get the penalty v arsenal in the 1/4 final.
but he needs to work on his first touch, I don't have high hopes for this as a good first touch isn't something you can train into a player they either have it or they don't.
I think Wiz's point is that he can look quite elegant in possession, his touch is good, and despite going for relatively easy range passes, his vision and awareness of those around him is also pretty good.
Babel and Kuyt don't have great technique on the ball, though the latter has improved his touch and control a hell of a lot this season, Babel shows good 'skill' occasionally but his touch and technique on the ball can often be well lacking.
[/quote]
hmm technique and skill are the same thing aren't they? I'll conceed babel's touch is piss poor but his control in tight areas is fantastic, look what he did to wes brown on the touch line. look at the gap he squeezed through to get the penalty v arsenal in the 1/4 final.
but he needs to work on his first touch, I don't have high hopes for this as a good first touch isn't something you can train into a player they either have it or they don't.
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=28950.msg732876#msg732876 date=1227545272]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=28950.msg732873#msg732873 date=1227545004]
I think Wiz's point is that he can look quite elegant in possession, his touch is good, and despite going for relatively easy range passes, his vision and awareness of those around him is also pretty good.
Babel and Kuyt don't have great technique on the ball, though the latter has improved his touch and control a hell of a lot this season, Babel shows good 'skill' occasionally but his touch and technique on the ball can often be well lacking.
[/quote]
hmm technique and skill are the same thing aren't they? I'll conceed babel's touch is piss poor but his control in tight areas is fantastic, look what he did to wes brown on the touch line. look at the gap he squeezed through to get the penalty v arsenal in the 1/4 final.
but he needs to work on his first touch, I don't have high hopes for this as a good first touch isn't something you can train into a player they either have it or they don't.
[/quote]
I don't know, Robbie Fowler had good technique, in terms of touch and striking the ball with precision, the same can be said of Alonso, Gerrard and Riera, they all look comfortable and controlled in possession and strike the ball cleanly and accurately, I'm not having a dig at Babel and Kuyt, but half the time they just twat the ball.
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=28950.msg732873#msg732873 date=1227545004]
I think Wiz's point is that he can look quite elegant in possession, his touch is good, and despite going for relatively easy range passes, his vision and awareness of those around him is also pretty good.
Babel and Kuyt don't have great technique on the ball, though the latter has improved his touch and control a hell of a lot this season, Babel shows good 'skill' occasionally but his touch and technique on the ball can often be well lacking.
[/quote]
hmm technique and skill are the same thing aren't they? I'll conceed babel's touch is piss poor but his control in tight areas is fantastic, look what he did to wes brown on the touch line. look at the gap he squeezed through to get the penalty v arsenal in the 1/4 final.
but he needs to work on his first touch, I don't have high hopes for this as a good first touch isn't something you can train into a player they either have it or they don't.
[/quote]
I don't know, Robbie Fowler had good technique, in terms of touch and striking the ball with precision, the same can be said of Alonso, Gerrard and Riera, they all look comfortable and controlled in possession and strike the ball cleanly and accurately, I'm not having a dig at Babel and Kuyt, but half the time they just twat the ball.
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