Lucas appreciation thread

[Rosco]

[quote author=nossaro link=topic=28950.msg731923#msg731923 date=1227461992]
I think that like Momo Lucas would benefit from move. it's obvious that he is not good or strong enough to play centre midfield in the premier league. He might be ok for a mid-table team in Spain but not for us - especially if we have ambitions to win the league. He has never shown anything to justify the fee we paid or the hype that surrounds him. When you watch the Arsenal or united equivants (Ransey, Nani , Anderson etc) they have all shown "something" (albeit not consistently as yet) to justify their reputations. If we could sell him and Pennant for a combinedc £8m to fund bringing in a decent right sided midfield player in January it may be for the best for all parties.
[/quote]

I have to agree, I think some people tend to go overboard here with regard to our rivals equivalent players but you can't deny that they all have shown that they have the potential to step up and contribute.

I can't really say that about Lucas.

He was highly rated when he arrived, but it just doesn't look like he'll ever prove himself here.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=28950.msg732885#msg732885 date=1227546105]
[quote author=nossaro link=topic=28950.msg731923#msg731923 date=1227461992]
I think that like Momo Lucas would benefit from move. it's obvious that he is not good or strong enough to play centre midfield in the premier league. He might be ok for a mid-table team in Spain but not for us - especially if we have ambitions to win the league. He has never shown anything to justify the fee we paid or the hype that surrounds him. When you watch the Arsenal or united equivants (Ransey, Nani , Anderson etc) they have all shown "something" (albeit not consistently as yet) to justify their reputations. If we could sell him and Pennant for a combinedc £8m to fund bringing in a decent right sided midfield player in January it may be for the best for all parties.
[/quote]

I have to agree, I think some people tend to go overboard here with regard to our rivals equivalent players but you can't deny that they all have shown that they have the potential to step up and contribute.

I can't really say that about Lucas.

He was highly rated when he arrived, but it just doesn't look like he'll ever prove himself here.
[/quote]


personally I think lucas lacks desire, the drive to grab the game by the scuff of the neck and MAKE something happen, he seems pleased to play it square but to be fair to the lad he created the best chance of the game only for robbie 'sitter' keane to fluff his lines.

 

[redjackal5x]

I dont care about what tag he came here with he is hardly gonna set the prem on fire when he ONLY trains with the first team.
My point is if you never play competitive games at any level ie reserves/ first team you wont exactly demonstrate your own capabilities let alone emulate the best midfield in the world. Any player who's season consists of cameo roles even at reserve team level (final against villa last season the last i remember) is hardly going to be a world beater in the rare chance he gets a game. Rafa needs to put him in the reserves full time and maybe we might see why we spent so much on him.

 

[Ryan]

Here's a stat for you:

Premier League Starts:

Lucas - 16
Babel - 16

How has Babel only started as many times as him? That's ridiculous.

 

[DHSC]

This thread doesn't really look like an appreciation thread.

Re Lucas: He doesn't seem to know what role he is playing in team. My gut feeling is that Benitez is asking him to play a role that it's not his usual role and Lucas is unfortunately not adaptable enough to play it.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=DHSC link=topic=28950.msg733290#msg733290 date=1227593674]
This thread doesn't really look like an appreciation thread.

Re Lucas: He doesn't seem to know what role he is playing in team. My gut feeling is that Benitez is asking him to play a role that it's not his usual role and Lucas is unfortunately not adaptable enough to play it.
[/quote]

Sorry mate, I'm not having that.

"not his usual role"? He was in central midfield, with a sitting player beside him, and up against Fulham at Anfield.

It doesn't get more 'prepared' for you than that.

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=28950.msg733296#msg733296 date=1227594219]
[quote author=DHSC link=topic=28950.msg733290#msg733290 date=1227593674]
This thread doesn't really look like an appreciation thread.

Re Lucas: He doesn't seem to know what role he is playing in team. My gut feeling is that Benitez is asking him to play a role that it's not his usual role and Lucas is unfortunately not adaptable enough to play it.
[/quote]

Sorry mate, I'm not having that.

"not his usual role"? He was in central midfield, with a sitting player beside him, and up against Fulham at Anfield.

It doesn't get more 'prepared' for you than that.
[/quote]

To be honest I don't know what kind of player Lucas is. Is he a box to box duracell bunny like Gerrard or a passmaster like Alonso? Or is he like a hybrid, albeit a very poor one?

Maybe Benitez wants him to play like Gerrard when he is like a Alonso, or like Alonso when he is like a Gerrard. Or maybe combine both their skills and play like a hybrid and offer something different to the team? In the first half he was attempting to play passes and in the second half he tried to go foward a bit more.



Fuck this. This defending Lucas thing is tiring.

 

[RolandG]

Lucas is what he is, but by no stretch of the imagination (even if you're fooking high) is he a box-to-box Stevie G. type player or replacement.

 

[keniget]

The other week Lucas said that he was playing in his favoured role of "second DM", i.e. the DM with a little more licence to get forward in a 4-2-3-1. I think that probably suits him better than any other position in any other formation. He's a shit tackler so can't fulfil any real sort of DM duties and he's nowhere near dynamic enough to be a box-to-box CM.

 

[manwithnoname]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=28950.msg733418#msg733418 date=1227613618]
The other week Lucas said that he was playing in his favoured role of "second DM", i.e. the DM with a little more licence to get forward in a 4-2-3-1. I think that probably suits him better than any other position in any other formation. He's a shit tackler so can't fulfil any real sort of DM duties and he's nowhere near dynamic enough to be a box-to-box CM.
[/quote]

"Second DM" ; a slightly more upfield role, where he doesn't have to tackle, or indeed make any final third passes, or score goals, or run.

That sounds like the perfect position for Luke.

And he's STILL shit at it.

 

[singlerider]

Well, I only saw the second half today, but he looked good in possession again. Played some good passes, including an absolute beauty for Stevie's second goal (even if that dire 80s Scouser impersonator Coloccini should have got a foot to it).

If he can bulk up a bit and work on tackling people rather than just running into people in the hope they'll give him the ball, as well as perhaps adding a bit to his shooting, he'll definitely turn into a very useful player.

I'm readying myself for a u-turn on this lad

 

[SaintGeorge67]

I've been moaning a few weeks that all his passes are sideways or backwards, but that one to Gerrard was a humdinger.

Excellent performance, dominating Butt and Guthrie.

More of the same please.

 

[singlerider]

How'd he look 1st half?

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=28950.msg763728#msg763728 date=1230476812]
How'd he look 1st half?
[/quote]
His best half today I reckon. He was having a really, really good game throughout.

 

[Judge Jules]

When we first bought him, I seem to remember most of the available info.indicating he was mainly an AM. Rafa's asked him to sit deeper and I wonder whether that's taken him some time to get used to, especially given the level of physical challenge in the Prem. Fine performance today anyway - here's hoping he can keep it up.

 

[foureyes]

He did fairly well today, but he's still got a long way to go to be the standard we require. He's nowhere near the level of Alonso, Gerrard or Mash.

 

[rebel23]

will be more than useful around the CL games and he's improving, developing and adapting all the time

he's got quite a few assists now in his league career and we've still never lost in league or europe when he starts.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=foureyes link=topic=28950.msg763769#msg763769 date=1230477910]
He did fairly well today, but he's still got a long way to go to be the standard we require. He's nowhere near the level of Alonso, Gerrard or Mash.
[/quote]

 

[drizzt]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=28950.msg763749#msg763749 date=1230477242]
When we first bought him, I seem to remember most of the available info.indicating he was mainly an AM. Rafa's asked him to sit deeper and I wonder whether that's taken him some time to get used to, especially given the level of physical challenge in the Prem. Fine performance today anyway - here's hoping he can keep it up.
[/quote]

He was most definitely a box to box player for Gremio. Last year he played in a position entirely alien to him and IMO has done pretty well adapting to the new role in a new country etc. He was deliberately told to sit back last year. Rafa and Lucas mentioned in pre-season that the next stage of his development would be this year when he would be asked to take a more progressive role. That bit is still a work in process, but I think the lad has what it takes.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?


[/quote]


I never tire of being right.

 

[Whitey85]

It was his best game for the club today. He seemed more confident, was positive in his play and tried to get physical when required. Much better.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

Great game by Lucas today.

 

[bkwitche2]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763795#msg763795 date=1230478483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?


[/quote]


I never tire of being right.

[/quote]

Nor of being a self-appreciative ass it seems.

The fact that we get x number of points when he plays and all that shit doesn't really encapsulate what's happening on the pitch. You make it seem as though your little stat means we won all of those games BECAUSE he was on the field. Fact is, in a lot of games, he's been a passenger on a winning ride.

Now that that is out of the way, his play has improved a lot in the last few games. i am very pleased to see him playing wel and I hope that he will continue to improve and stay with the club as a long term option for the future of our CM.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=bkwitche link=topic=28950.msg763904#msg763904 date=1230481901]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763795#msg763795 date=1230478483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?


[/quote]


I never tire of being right.

[/quote]

Nor of being a self-appreciative ass it seems.

The fact that we get x number of points when he plays and all that shit doesn't really encapsulate what's happening on the pitch. You make it seem as though your little stat means we won all of those games BECAUSE he was on the field. Fact is, in a lot of games, he's been a passenger on a winning ride.

Now that that is out of the way, his play has improved a lot in the last few games. i am very pleased to see him playing wel and I hope that he will continue to improve and stay with the club as a long term option for the future of our CM.
[/quote]

no it means he isnt as shit as some would have you believe because he isnt making mistakes or giving the ball away, he's performing competently if not unspectacularly, to a high standard.

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763907#msg763907 date=1230482145]
[quote author=bkwitche link=topic=28950.msg763904#msg763904 date=1230481901]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763795#msg763795 date=1230478483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?


[/quote]


I never tire of being right.

[/quote]

Nor of being a self-appreciative ass it seems.

The fact that we get x number of points when he plays and all that shit doesn't really encapsulate what's happening on the pitch. You make it seem as though your little stat means we won all of those games BECAUSE he was on the field. Fact is, in a lot of games, he's been a passenger on a winning ride.

Now that that is out of the way, his play has improved a lot in the last few games. i am very pleased to see him playing wel and I hope that he will continue to improve and stay with the club as a long term option for the future of our CM.
[/quote]

no it means he isnt as shit as some would have you believe because he isnt making mistakes or giving the ball away, he's performing competently if not unspectacularly, to a high standard.

[/quote]

Rebel, bar the last 2 starts for Lucas, he's been fucking dogshite.

Theres a reason why 95% of Liverpool fans I speak to dont want him starting games for us. You seem to be in the minority here. We cant all be wrong and your right now can we?

But like I said in another thread, he was excellent today and credit where credit is due. I still dont like seeing his name on the starting XI team sheet though.

And would happily see him on the way next wk if a nice offer came in.

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg763914#msg763914 date=1230482483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763907#msg763907 date=1230482145]
[quote author=bkwitche link=topic=28950.msg763904#msg763904 date=1230481901]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763795#msg763795 date=1230478483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?


[/quote]


I never tire of being right.

[/quote]

Nor of being a self-appreciative ass it seems.

The fact that we get x number of points when he plays and all that shit doesn't really encapsulate what's happening on the pitch. You make it seem as though your little stat means we won all of those games BECAUSE he was on the field. Fact is, in a lot of games, he's been a passenger on a winning ride.

Now that that is out of the way, his play has improved a lot in the last few games. i am very pleased to see him playing wel and I hope that he will continue to improve and stay with the club as a long term option for the future of our CM.
[/quote]

no it means he isnt as shit as some would have you believe because he isnt making mistakes or giving the ball away, he's performing competently if not unspectacularly, to a high standard.

[/quote]

Rebel, bar the last 2 starts for Lucas, he's been fucking dogshite.

Theres a reason why 95% of Liverpool fans I speak to dont want him starting games for us when Gerrard and Xabi are fit. You seem to be in the minority here. We cant all be wrong and your right now can we?

But like I said in another thread, he was excellent today and credit where credit is due. I still dont like seeing his name on the starting XI team sheet though.

And would happily see him on the way next wk if a nice offer came in.
[/quote]

No he hasn't been dogshite, he's done quite well in 15 games in the league actually, we've never lost and we've picked up loads of points

it's complete nonsense to say he's been dogshite, making errors and costing us points, he has been pretty good for a young lad and will continue to get games, develop and adapt and i'm very pleased because he's got huge potential

he must have quite a few assists in the league now, something like 6. Lucas has been excellent, not many midfielders are better in the league but of course he's not at Gerrard's level, who else is? Xabi is also a full spanish international

what more do you want from a 4th choice CM. I dont know.

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763916#msg763916 date=1230482653]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg763914#msg763914 date=1230482483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763907#msg763907 date=1230482145]
[quote author=bkwitche link=topic=28950.msg763904#msg763904 date=1230481901]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg763795#msg763795 date=1230478483]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?


[/quote]


I never tire of being right.

[/quote]

Nor of being a self-appreciative ass it seems.

The fact that we get x number of points when he plays and all that shit doesn't really encapsulate what's happening on the pitch. You make it seem as though your little stat means we won all of those games BECAUSE he was on the field. Fact is, in a lot of games, he's been a passenger on a winning ride.

Now that that is out of the way, his play has improved a lot in the last few games. i am very pleased to see him playing wel and I hope that he will continue to improve and stay with the club as a long term option for the future of our CM.
[/quote]

no it means he isnt as shit as some would have you believe because he isnt making mistakes or giving the ball away, he's performing competently if not unspectacularly, to a high standard.

[/quote]

Rebel, bar the last 2 starts for Lucas, he's been fucking dogshite.

Theres a reason why 95% of Liverpool fans I speak to dont want him starting games for us when Gerrard and Xabi are fit. You seem to be in the minority here. We cant all be wrong and your right now can we?

But like I said in another thread, he was excellent today and credit where credit is due. I still dont like seeing his name on the starting XI team sheet though.

And would happily see him on the way next wk if a nice offer came in.
[/quote]

No he hasn't been dogshite, he's done quite well in 15 games in the league actually, we've never lost and we've picked up loads of points

it's complete nonsense to say he's been dogshite, making errors and costing us points, he has been pretty good for a young lad and will continue to get games, develop and adapt and i'm very pleased because he's got huge potential
[/quote]

Well from what ive seen with my own two eyes, mostly live, he's been dogshite.

Weak, knocked off the ball easy, cant tackle, offers nothing going forward, passes every ball backwards or sideways, I could go on.

I was fucking amazed today with that pass for Gerrard. A bit more of that please and he might win me round.

Like I said, good game today though.

 

[rebel23]

he hasn't been weak though because while he's been knocked off the ball he's won plenty of balls and challenges that you dont mention or seemingly see?

you can see it in the stats, Lucas always wins balls and is strong at times and yes weak at others. like a lot of players. he's not making mistakes though, is tactically excellent and can play at a high level against Arsenal, Chelsea, Inter Milan and so on. he is 21 for fucks sake !

 

[Piedro]

Well we will just have to see. I dont think he'll be good enough, and you say 4th choice CM? 8 million squid for a 4th choice player? Nice.

Im off the pub now, so aint got time to debate. Later fellas.

 

[drizzt]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg763921#msg763921 date=1230483086]
Well we will just have to see. I dont think he'll be good enough, and you say 4th choice CM? 8 million squid for a 4th choice player? Nice.

Im off the pub now, so aint got time to debate. Later fellas.
[/quote]

Yeah shame on the 21 year old lad for not being better than a) the best defensive midfielder in the world b) the best attacking midfielder in the world and c) the best playmaking midfielder in the world.

It's a shame our results go to pot when he replaces one of them.