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Lucas appreciation thread

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The point, you infuriatingly dense cunt, is that there is no such thing as a guaranteed win, but the percentage chance of winning increases the more good players you have on the pitch

Fuck me, it isn't that cunting complicated
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731738#msg731738 date=1227454470]
The point, you infuriatingly dense cunt, is that there is no such thing as a guaranteed win, but the percentage chance of winning increases the more good players you have on the pitch

Fuck me, it isn't that cunting complicated
[/quote]

and what is this based on?

i'd like to see the facts i.e take what are considered our 'best' players at the start of every season and see what our points average is in the league when they dont play compared to as when they do. only when you have the evidence can you say that with any degree of certainty
 
I've not read all of this, but are you arguing that playing your best players does not mean you've got more of a chance of winning?
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731740#msg731740 date=1227454589]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731738#msg731738 date=1227454470]
The point, you infuriatingly dense cunt, is that there is no such thing as a guaranteed win, but the percentage chance of winning increases the more good players you have on the pitch

Fuck me, it isn't that cunting complicated
[/quote]

and what is this based on?

i'd like to see the facts i.e take what are considered are 'best' players at the start of every season and see what our points average is in the league when they dont play compared to as when they do. only when you have the evidence can you say that with any degree of certainity.


[/quote]

It based on simple common sense.

The better the players you have, the more chance you have of winning. Otherwise it really wouldnt matter what players you bought or played, & every year we'd have a different winner of the FA Cup.

Strangely enough, the FA Cup is almost exclusively won by the "top 4" in the Premiership, who, obviously by complete coincidence, have better players than all of the other clubs involved.
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731744#msg731744 date=1227454763]
So you don't think teams with good players are more likely to win games than teams with bad players?

I see
[/quote]

no, you need a team with good players at the required level to be competitive but changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match. it's about the performance of the team and if several of them are not up for it (or tired) then you get the kinds of results yesterday
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=28950.msg731748#msg731748 date=1227454870]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731740#msg731740 date=1227454589]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731738#msg731738 date=1227454470]
The point, you infuriatingly dense cunt, is that there is no such thing as a guaranteed win, but the percentage chance of winning increases the more good players you have on the pitch

Fuck me, it isn't that cunting complicated
[/quote]

and what is this based on?

i'd like to see the facts i.e take what are considered are 'best' players at the start of every season and see what our points average is in the league when they dont play compared to as when they do. only when you have the evidence can you say that with any degree of certainity.


[/quote]

It based on simple common sense.

The better the players you have, the more chance you have of winning. Otherwise it really wouldnt matter what players you bought or played, & every year we'd have a different winner of the FA Cup.

Strangely enough, the FA Cup is almost exclusively won by the "top 4" in the Premiership, who, obviously by complete coincidence, have better players than all of the other clubs involved.
[/quote]

Pompey beat a full strength manc team in the FA cup last season 1-0 at Old Trafford, how did that happen? 'just one of those days'
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731753#msg731753 date=1227455082]
if several of them are not up for it (or tired) then you get the kinds of results yesterday
[/quote]

But if one or more of them is not as good at a number of attributes, (such as passing, tackling, running, heading, & shooting, in Lucas case) than the person who they have been chosen ahead of then it doesnt reduce the teams chance of winning?!

Aaarrrrrrrggghhhh.
 
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=28950.msg731761#msg731761 date=1227455401]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731753#msg731753 date=1227455082]
if several of them are not up for it (or tired) then you get the kinds of results yesterday
[/quote]

But if one or more of them is not as good at a number of attributes, (such as passing, tackling, running, heading, & shooting, in Lucas case) than the person who they have been chosen ahead of then it doesnt reduce the teams chance of winning?!

Aaarrrrrrrggghhhh.
[/quote]

well this is simple, a quick scan of LFChistory.net shows that Lucas has started 14 league games and we have got 34 points from. that is just slightly better than our current points average this season and 20% better than the points average we managed last season over a bigger sample, so he is not a negative factor. when we play Lucas instead of Alonso, Masher or whoever our points average does not suffer in the league
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731769#msg731769 date=1227456064]
Please. Mercy.
[/quote]

what's wrong, you dont like to hear facts?

for the record here's the games he started. I might have missed some because i've been doing it quickly but i think i got them all

0 - 0 Fulham
1 - 0 Portsmouth
Newcastle United 0 - 3 Liverpool
Liverpool 4 - 0 Bolton Wanderers
Liverpool 3 - 0 Sunderland
0 - 0 Chelsea
Liverpool 3 - 2 Middlesbrough
Liverpool 3 - 0 Newcastle United
Liverpool 1 - 0 Everton
Arsenal 1 - 1 Liverpool
Liverpool 3 - 1 Blackburn Rovers
Fulham 0 - 2 Liverpool
Birmingham City 2 - 2 Liverpool
Liverpool 1 - 0 Manchester City
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731768#msg731768 date=1227456010]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=28950.msg731761#msg731761 date=1227455401]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731753#msg731753 date=1227455082]
if several of them are not up for it (or tired) then you get the kinds of results yesterday
[/quote]

But if one or more of them is not as good at a number of attributes, (such as passing, tackling, running, heading, & shooting, in Lucas case) than the person who they have been chosen ahead of then it doesnt reduce the teams chance of winning?!

Aaarrrrrrrggghhhh.
[/quote]

well this is simple, a quick scan of LFChistory.net shows that Lucas has started 14 league games and we have got 34 points from. that is just slightly better than our current points average this season and 20% better than the points average we managed last season over a bigger sample, so he is not a negative factor. when we play Lucas instead of Alonso, Masher or whoever our points average does not suffer in the league


[/quote]

And of those games, how many times was he playing alongside either Steven Gerrard or Xabi Alnso?
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=28950.msg731771#msg731771 date=1227456180]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731768#msg731768 date=1227456010]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=28950.msg731761#msg731761 date=1227455401]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731753#msg731753 date=1227455082]
if several of them are not up for it (or tired) then you get the kinds of results yesterday
[/quote]

But if one or more of them is not as good at a number of attributes, (such as passing, tackling, running, heading, & shooting, in Lucas case) than the person who they have been chosen ahead of then it doesnt reduce the teams chance of winning?!

Aaarrrrrrrggghhhh.
[/quote]

well this is simple, a quick scan of LFChistory.net shows that Lucas has started 14 league games and we have got 34 points from. that is just slightly better than our current points average this season and 20% better than the points average we managed last season over a bigger sample, so he is not a negative factor. when we play Lucas instead of Alonso, Masher or whoever our points average does not suffer in the league


[/quote]

And of those games, how many times was he playing alongside either Steven Gerrard or Xabi Alnso?
[/quote]

mostly with Masher and Gerrard when Alonso was injured last season I think but there are games in there where he's played with everyone
 
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
 
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731773#msg731773 date=1227456331]
So, spacker, we have a better chance of winning the league with lucas in the team?
[/quote]

it's entirely possible based on these stats, for what its worth he isnt a bad 4th choice CM and if he had to play some league games in a row due to an injury, assuming we got him in better form, we should be able to maintain a league winning points average like we have when Torres has been injured and Keane has been playing instead. it certainly gives Rafa one less thing to worry about, doesn't it?
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731782#msg731782 date=1227456712]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=28950.msg731771#msg731771 date=1227456180]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731768#msg731768 date=1227456010]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=28950.msg731761#msg731761 date=1227455401]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731753#msg731753 date=1227455082]
if several of them are not up for it (or tired) then you get the kinds of results yesterday
[/quote]

But if one or more of them is not as good at a number of attributes, (such as passing, tackling, running, heading, & shooting, in Lucas case) than the person who they have been chosen ahead of then it doesnt reduce the teams chance of winning?!

Aaarrrrrrrggghhhh.
[/quote]

well this is simple, a quick scan of LFChistory.net shows that Lucas has started 14 league games and we have got 34 points from. that is just slightly better than our current points average this season and 20% better than the points average we managed last season over a bigger sample, so he is not a negative factor. when we play Lucas instead of Alonso, Masher or whoever our points average does not suffer in the league


[/quote]

And of those games, how many times was he playing alongside either Steven Gerrard or Xabi Alnso?
[/quote]

mostly with Masher and Gerrard when Alonso was injured last season I think but there are games in there where he's played with everyone

[/quote]

How many times has he played with neither Gerrard and Alonso?
 
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?
 
obviously I'd have perferred alonso to start rather than lucas, failing that start the second half, but laying the blame for dropped points at the feet of one individual is harsh especially when that individual created the best chance of the game. I thought masherano was equally poor yesterday with a sea of wayward passes.

no I don't rate lucas
I'd rather not see him start games
but all the blame for the draw can't (or rather shouldn't be laid at the feet of lucas' door alone).
want someone to blame, how about the manager who STILL has one eye on the CL.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?

[/quote]

He's fucking shite and shouldn't be starting a game ahead of Alonso when Gerrard is out injured?
 
He's fucking rubbish, and you seem to be the only person that cant see that.

Oh, and Rafa too.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=28950.msg731795#msg731795 date=1227457059]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?

[/quote]

He's fucking shite and shouldn't be starting a game ahead of Alonso when Gerrard is out injured?
[/quote]

against teams that will come for a point alonso should start ahead of every midfielder with the exception of gerrard.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731759#msg731759 date=1227455315]
[quote author=FoxForceFive link=topic=28950.msg731748#msg731748 date=1227454870]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731740#msg731740 date=1227454589]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=28950.msg731738#msg731738 date=1227454470]
The point, you infuriatingly dense cunt, is that there is no such thing as a guaranteed win, but the percentage chance of winning increases the more good players you have on the pitch

Fuck me, it isn't that cunting complicated
[/quote]

and what is this based on?

i'd like to see the facts i.e take what are considered are 'best' players at the start of every season and see what our points average is in the league when they dont play compared to as when they do. only when you have the evidence can you say that with any degree of certainity.


[/quote]

It based on simple common sense.

The better the players you have, the more chance you have of winning. Otherwise it really wouldnt matter what players you bought or played, & every year we'd have a different winner of the FA Cup.

Strangely enough, the FA Cup is almost exclusively won by the "top 4" in the Premiership, who, obviously by complete coincidence, have better players than all of the other clubs involved.
[/quote]

Pompey beat a full strength manc team in the FA cup last season 1-0 at Old Trafford, how did that happen? 'just one of those days'


[/quote]

Because its another tinpot cup that means fuck all if you win the title.

Are you saying the reason we drew yesterday was because we didn't want to win the league?
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=28950.msg731795#msg731795 date=1227457059]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=28950.msg731792#msg731792 date=1227456984]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731786#msg731786 date=1227456818]
How to win the title, by Rebel23.

PART ONE

Sell Gerrard and Torres and buy Ricardo Fuller and Robbie Savage.

We make an 80 Million pound profit, and we can still win the league because, and I quote (3.44pm.42secs) "changing one or two shouldn't make a big difference to an outcome of a random football match."
[/quote]

in the context of a top club like Liverpool. as I have proven, when Lucas plays we have a points average of 2.42 points per game, which is exactly our current average. he isnt letting the side down when he starts and he's not making errors leading to bad losses, so what's the problem?

[/quote]

He's fucking shite and shouldn't be starting a game ahead of Alonso when Gerrard is out injured?
[/quote]

all he's doing is fulfilling a role as a squad player, it's not unusual and it'll happen again in the future. hopefully with a better outcome
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=28950.msg731797#msg731797 date=1227457192]

against teams that will come for a point alonso should start ahead of every midfielder with the exception of gerrard.
[/quote]

aaha yes but guess what, it's no guarantee of anything.. that's the whole point im trying to make.
 
Reb, do you think we can win the league with Lucas starting say, in a quarter of our Prem games?
 
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=28950.msg731807#msg731807 date=1227457388]
Reb, do you think we can win the league with Lucas starting say, in a quarter of our Prem games?
[/quote]

if he had to due to an injury to someone which in all likelyhood will happen at some point, yeah I think we can
 
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