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Liverpool vs fulham post match thread

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Ooops! I did read it. Just didn't count the Everton game...

Anyway, 13-15 looks tough but doable. Hope we can do even better than that which will put us in a really strong position before the christmas games.


Four wins (Hull, Norwich, WHU & Cardiff) + two draws (Everton and Spurs) = 14

That would be awesome but we'd need no injuries in six games (+ internationals) which is fantasy land stuff.

Still wouldn't it be incredible to be in with a shout at Xmas? Only twice have we managed that in the last 15 or so years
 
sadly there are haters out there. Johnson provides so much, tis true,


I would say it's still somewhat justified as he's usually liable over the course of a season for a few dropped points, and he's on ridiculous wages as well. When he performs like yesterday, he's totally worth it, but there are matches where he's awful.

If he can do this for a few months consistently, I'll say he's worth it, but I just haven't seen the consistency in his play.
 
I'd like to think signing someone young who could become a viable contender for the RB spot would push him forward and keep his levels consistent
 
Don't see too many people talking about Henderson's pass to Luis for the third... It was magnificent. Perfectly weighted and somewhat reminiscent of Stevie's magnificent pass to Spud at Old Trafford all those years ago. He has improved in leaps and bounds in the past 12 months or so.
 
Well that was worth staying up til 4am for.

Suarez really is a different class and the best player ability wise I've ever seen play live for Liverpool. He really is a world beater all on his own.

His workrate is 2nd to none. I really hope he rubs off on everyone else.

Gerrard had a better game but still was poor defensively compared with Lucas and Henderson.

On that point Henderson has to start every game from now on for me. He simply works harder than anyone else at closing down the opposition at speed. He is a joy to watch.

If we had 3 of him in the middle against Arsenal they'd never have walked through us as often as they did.

Johnson was a massive plus and showed what you can get out of a full back if you pay top dollar.

Skrtel again didn't put a foot wrong, scored a great goal and his passing improved (granted against a shite side)

My only concery was at how greedy Sturridge gets once Suarez has a goal.

Hopefully that doesn't continue.
 
Don't see too many people talking about Henderson's pass to Luis for the third... It was magnificent. Perfectly weighted and somewhat reminiscent of Stevie's magnificent pass to Spud at Old Trafford all those years ago. He has improved in leaps and bounds in the past 12 months or so.
Great pass but wasn't perfectly weighted as it took a nick off the defender which took the pace off it completely.

He had a superb game though.
 
Well that was worth staying up til 4am for <FOOTBALL CLICHE.

Suarez really is a different class <FOOTBALL CLICHE and the best player ability wise <FOOTBALL CLICHE I've ever seen play live for Liverpool. He really is a world beater <FOOTBALL CLICHE all on his own.

His workrate is 2nd to none <FOOTBALL CLICHE. I really hope he rubs off on everyone else <FOOTBALL CLICHE.

Gerrard had a better game but still was poor defensively compared with Lucas and Henderson.

On that point Henderson has to start every game from now on <FOOTBALL CLICHE for me. He simply works harder than anyone else at closing down the opposition at speed. He is a joy to watch <FOOTBALL CLICHE.

If we had 3 of him in the middle against Arsenal they'd never have walked through us <FOOTBALL CLICHE as often as they did.

Johnson was a massive plus <FOOTBALL CLICHE and showed what you can get out of a full back if you pay top dollar <MASSIVE FOOTBALL CLICHE.

Skrtel again didn't put a foot wrong <FOOTBALL CLICHE, scored a great goal and his passing improved (granted against a shite side)

My only concery was at how greedy Sturridge gets once Suarez has a goal.

Hopefully that doesn't continue.
 
I would say it's still somewhat justified as he's usually liable over the course of a season for a few dropped points, and he's on ridiculous wages as well. When he performs like yesterday, he's totally worth it, but there are matches where he's awful.

If he can do this for a few months consistently, I'll say he's worth it, but I just haven't seen the consistency in his play.

That, Whirly, can apply to virtually every player on the pitch though. CBs, FBs, GK, DM who mess up and it leads to a goal, MF and attackers who fail to take their opportunities (e.g Suarez and Sturridge at Arsenal) and it changes the course of the match or the result.

You have to look at the balance of outstanding/good/poor matches throughout the season. I think for most people Johnson would fall in the top echelon of performers at the club and is therefore worth his pennies.
 
That, Whirly, can apply to virtually every player on the pitch though. CBs, FBs, GK, DM who mess up and it leads to a goal, MF and attackers who fail to take their opportunities (e.g Suarez and Sturridge at Arsenal) and it changes the course of the match or the result.

You have to look at the balance of outstanding/good/poor matches throughout the season. I think for most people Johnson would fall in the top echelon of performers at the club and is therefore worth his pennies.


Small sample size or not, if you compare Glenjo and Enrique, I would take Enrique every time because he checks more of the boxes that I look for in a fullback. For me, your fullbacks just need to be capable players, not world beaters to be a good side. Everybody likes a sexy attacking fullback, but if you look at a player like Enrique, he's rarely responsible for us conceding when compared to our RBs, but still manages to do enough in the final third. There's certainly more to their play than the goals and assists figures, but where Johnson uses his agility to get into attacking positions and put in a cross or cut in and shoot, Enrique typically links up with Suarez/Coutinho. You get roughly the same end product, but I think Enrique fits our play style much better considering crosses aren't our preferred way of scoring, and we have many other players who should be shooting before our fullbacks are.

If you add in that Glenjo is one of our top paid players, on a wage close to as much as double as what Enrique costs, and is also so injury prone, it's a fairly skewed setup. Glenjo is awesome when he's on his day, and is worth every penny, but it definitely feels about 2/3 of the time that he's either nowhere to be found, or seriously lacking in defense. If you look at it on the balance as you say, he's very average, but as a player he's definitely well above average. And as you said, strikers failing to take their chances, and so on also need to be looked at on on a holistic level, but if you're going to have a fullback who contributes directly to say 5 goals an year, and then directly leads to us conceding just as many, which is about the kind of player Johnson is, I don't know if that's the ideal setup, especially when compared to a player like Enrique who plays a role in the same number of goals, but absolutely leads to us conceding fewer.

It doesn't really help that he gets injured so frequently, leaving us in a situation where we have to play youth players, or a CB at RB either. It's definitely a trend at this point, which is another concern. If he can play the rest of this season, at this clip, without getting hurt, then he's worth what he's paid on the balance of his injury/form plagued seasons of late, but until then I remain to be convinced.
 
Whirly, I can't believe that you think Enrique is a better full-back than Johnson. I wasn't convinced of Enrique when he joined but he won me over and I'm a fan. I love the strength - bull like - in protecting the ball. He has an understanding with Suarez and he can often get out of tight situations.

He's not Johnson's standard though - particularly now he's slowing down and can't recover from a bad position as easily.

There's actually very little that Johnson can't cover. He's quick, agile, got a great motor, can cross, shoot and dribble.

He could be inconsistent but then Enrique wasn't exactly a model of consistency either.


Sent from my HTC One XL
 
Whirly, I can't believe that you think Enrique is a better full-back than Johnson. I wasn't convinced of Enrique when he joined but he won me over and I'm a fan. I love the strength - bull like - in protecting the ball. He has an understanding with Suarez and he can often get out of tight situations.

He's not Johnson's standard though - particularly now he's slowing down and can't recover from a bad position as easily.

There's actually very little that Johnson can't cover. He's quick, agile, got a great motor, can cross, shoot and dribble.

He could be inconsistent but then Enrique wasn't exactly a model of consistency either.


Sent from my HTC One XL


I think we've reached a point now where we're better off with defenders that can defend than attack, just because we have top class strikers, as well as a midfield that seems to prefer attack to defense, and provides very little cover. The attacking threat is sometimes lacking and having another option is great, I agree, but having a consistent defender seems to be the ideal way to go. Enrique had his issues towards the beginning of last season and the end of the season before that, but as a body of work he's been consistently better, not to mention significantly cheaper.

As an individual player Johnson is probably better for most sides, but as far as our needs, I think we need someone who can defend first, and also provide enough in the attack, not the other way around. To me, he's almost a luxury player at times.
 
That's not quite the way it works though.

If we had a very strong midfield I'd partly agree, cos we'd have an outlet to reduce pressure & keep possession that way.

As it is we don't, so the wingbacks /full backs need to provide that outlet & width that helps sas find more space, reduces pressure in the defence & keeps momentum.

If we had a Johnson either side we'd be a far greater team. He is a vastly underrated player imo.
 
That's not quite the way it works though.

If we had a very strong midfield I'd partly agree, cos we'd have an outlet to reduce pressure & keep possession that way.

As it is we don't, so the wingbacks /full backs need to provide that outlet & width that helps sas find more space, reduces pressure in the defence & keeps momentum.

If we had a Johnson either side we'd be a far greater team. He is a vastly underrated player imo.

His support play is great and he gives us balance and width - he's a very good player, but when we play better sides that's when he often gets found wanting, when he's asked to hold his position and defend first and foremost. He was excellent on Saturday though, he gave Richardson a torrid time offensively and defensively.

He's shown alot more consistency though over the last 18 months, but his moments of indecision and the mistakes that occasionally creep into his game are frustrating for a player of his experience.
 
My only concery was at how greedy Sturridge gets once Suarez has a goal.

This part has been worrying me for the last few weeks too. I think @keniget mentioned it earlier, but there is a competitiveness forming between Suarez and Sturridge. Now that's good if it's the right kind of competitive, but I'm not sure it is. Luckily we've only seen Sturridge be selfish when we've been comfortably winning, however I worry it will get worse as time goes on, especially when Suarez moves ahead of him in the top scorers chart. That little verbal exchange between Sturridge and Suarez at the end of the Arsenal game worried me a bit, I just get the impression that Sturridge doesn't like Suarez, it's hardly like they're that happy for each other when they score.

Or I'm just reading into things too much.
 
That's not quite the way it works though.

If we had a very strong midfield I'd partly agree, cos we'd have an outlet to reduce pressure & keep possession that way.

As it is we don't, so the wingbacks /full backs need to provide that outlet & width that helps sas find more space, reduces pressure in the defence & keeps momentum.

If we had a Johnson either side we'd be a far greater team. He is a vastly underrated player imo.

I thought you were one of Johnson's being skeptics?
 
Agreed, however I'll gladly take those occasional mistakes for the amount of forward play he offers.

He plays the ball out more than any other player we have (now Lucas & Gerrard aren't firing onall cylinders), even when there is no real option for him he gets forward, retaining possession more often than not, & creates space & time.

If he isn't doing that then the ball is coming back again & again, now if we had masher & alonso in the centre we could happily play with just one outlet as they could retain possession & release pressure that way.
 
His support play is great and he gives us balance and width - he's a very good player, but when we play better sides that's when he often gets found wanting, when he's asked to hold his position and defend first and foremost. He was excellent on Saturday though, he gave Richardson a torrid time offensively and defensively.

He's shown alot more consistency though over the last 18 months, but his moments of indecision and the mistakes that occasionally creep into his game are frustrating for a player of his experience.

To be honest, mark, I've often felt that, when it came to Johnson, you nit-picked for any potential error. His mistakes have never been that frequent and rarely as glaring as our CB's or our keeper would make. They didn't get a free ride from you but they never seemed to be a target for you as Johnson is.

Whirly, surely you see that one of the main reasons our strikers carry such threat is because our FB's create so much space for them. If Johnson wasn't continually marauding up the touch line they'd be struggling for anything like the goals they've scored.

Sent from my HTC One XL
 
To be honest, mark, I've often felt that, when it came to Johnson, you nit-picked for any potential error. His mistakes have never been that frequent and rarely as glaring as our CB's or our keeper would make. They didn't get a free ride from you but they never seemed to be a target for you as Johnson is.

Whirly, surely you see that one of the main reasons our strikers carry such threat is because our FB's create so much space for them. If Johnson wasn't continually marauding up the touch line they'd be struggling for anything like the goals they've scored.

Sent from my HTC One XL

I've always said I think he's a top "player", I do think his concentration levels at times can be poor, I don't think that's an exaggeration, but we saw how much we miss him recently, he's an important part of our play and our attacking setup when he's fit and playing well.
 
Nope. The opposite! I would argue that he's one of the few world class players we have.

Hmm, I must have had my wires crossed, maybe it was Mark *points the accusational finger*

But yes, he definitely is, he's the perfect winger for this system, I'd argue with him at RB instead of Flanagan, we'd have got a result against Arsenal.
 
Johnson is ace and although Enrique has been suspect for a while he completely shits on Cissokho.

Them two, and you can then argue about who to partner Skrtel with our the other three centre halves and we look strong defensively. We should stick with a four because the midfield has been crap lately and it looked a lot better with the extra man on Saturday.
 
Johnson is ace and although Enrique has been suspect for a while he completely shits on Cissokho.

Them two, and you can then argue about who to partner Skrtel with our the other three centre halves and we look strong defensively. We should stick with a four because the midfield has been crap lately and it looked a lot better with the extra man on Saturday.

Quite. I really like Sakho, but Agger looked class on Saturday.
 
Quite. I really like Sakho, but Agger looked class on Saturday.

Yup, I think the only argument for Sakho at the minute is that he's better in the air than the other two and a bit more rugged and physical. In games where we're going to boss possession we can easily get by with Agger & Skrtel, it's more the type of sides that will expose us from set pieces that we need to have a rethink about.
 
Brave decision again anyway by Rodgers, to bench a few of his buys for the good of the side. It'll be interesting to see how we shape up against Everton. He reverted to three at the back against them last year, part way through the game (though that was because we were struggling with Wisdom at right back).
 
Brave decision again anyway by Rodgers, to bench a few of his buys for the good of the side. It'll be interesting to see how we shape up against Everton. He reverted to three at the back against them last year, part way through the game (though that was because we were struggling with Wisdom at right back).

We have to play 4 at the back, so that we can get as many in midfield as possible. Otherwise they'll stroll through us, cos their midfield shits all over ours.

Personally I'd play Suarez behind Sturridge, effectively playing a stilted 4-5-1 so that Coutinho & Suarez can bring the ball out when possible, I doubt he will though.
 
We have to play 4 at the back, so that we can get as many in midfield as possible. Otherwise they'll stroll through us, cos their midfield shits all over ours.

Personally I'd play Suarez behind Sturridge, effectively playing a stilted 4-5-1 so that Coutinho & Suarez can bring the ball out when possible, I doubt he will though.

Yup, it'll be typical in midfield with them having alot more physical players in there in McCarthy, Barkley & Barry.
 
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