Liverpool related transfer speculation

[Modo]

Yeah - Doak has a bit of the *Jay Spearing* aura about him. I.e., never gonna be good enough. I'm almost certain he will never make it at an elite level.

Something like that. It's an exciting kid, low center of gravity, quick, good dribbler.

You know who he reminds me of?
Ryan Fraser.
Doak is basically his clone.
So he can look good here and there. He might make it in the Prem but not as RW. He should go somewhere where they'll play him on the LW.
I don't know, maybe the old coaching staff were purposely playing him on the RW so he could improve on his left foot.

 

[Modo]

I think the biggest issue Curtis has is staying fit. That and probably that nobody knows what his best position is.

Very talented and good player which is great to have in the squad. Not a starter but squad.

Jones would be more than a squad player if he released the ball quicker.

 

[Fabio]

So, question is; what's Clark's best position? He seems decent but other than pressing like a maniac I've not seen the most to know what his strengths are.

Would people rather we kept Clark to block nyoni? Or are we actually being sensible and streamlining paths to the first team?

 

[Frogfish]

IMO Nyoni has already shown more potential and has a higher ceiling.

This maybe what sealed the deal as far as Clark is concerned.

 

[Modo]

IMO Nyoni had already shown more potential and has a higher ceiling.

Totally agree. To reference an older post I think you made, "good isn't good enough for LFC".
You notice the difference in quality when you compare certain youth players.
It's not a coincidence that Bajcetic and Nyoni were on the bench for the Seville game.
Slot knows.

 

[bluebell]

I would keep Morton and sell CJ... Morton has a higher ceiling and CJ will fetch a greater price

 

[Fabio]

IMO Nyoni has already shown more potential and has a higher ceiling.

This maybe what sealed the deal as far as Clark is concerned.

Exactly. And its also why I'm not bothered if doak goes; as there's also that Rio kid who we might be trying to fast track as well

 

[Buddha]

Exactly. And its also why I'm not bothered if doak goes; as there's also that Rio kid who we might be trying to fast track as well

That’s a good point well made. It’s not beyond the realms of possibility that we’ve taken a look at Rio and prioritised his track into the first team in a year or two…you might argue similarly regards Clark and Nyoni etc?

 

[Modo]

I would keep Morton and sell CJ... Morton has a higher ceiling and CJ will fetch a greater price

That's an interesting take. Morton isn't the dribbler CJ is ( he was a winger before) but imo he's a smarter player.
The issue with Morton is that he's built like McManaman. I'm afraid he'll get bullied in midfield in the Prem.

 

[Frogfish]

That's an interesting take. Morton isn't the dribbler CJ is ( he was a winger before) but imo he's a smarter player.
The issue with Morton is that he's built like McManaman. I'm afraid he'll get bullied in midfield in the Prem.

As far as physical contact is concerned the Championship is probably worse!

 

[singlerider]

It’s just his face, isn’t it?

Doak has the face of a centre half, not a tricky winger

 

[StevieM]

Totally agree. To reference an older post I think you made. Good, isn't good enough for LFC.
You notice the difference in quality when you compare certain youth players.
It's not a coincidence that Bajcetic and Nyoni were on the bench for the Seville game.
Slot knows.

Clark’s been injured, so it’s impossible to tell whether he might have made more of the same opportunities that Nyoni got this pre-season.

Badger has exactly sparkled in pres-season - not that he’s looked poor, like.

If Mr Intensity wants Clark do much, let him take him on loan - bollocks to selling him on the cheap (if at all).

 

[Hansern]

Clark could be pushing for a move for all that we know.

 

[Modo]

Clark’s been injured, so it’s impossible to tell whether he might have made more of the same opportunities that Nyoni got this pre-season.

Badger has exactly sparkled in pres-season - not that he’s looked poor, like.

If Mr Intensity wants Clark do much, let him take him on loan - bollocks to selling him on the cheap (if at all).

I haven't seen him do what Bajcetic and Nyoni has done for the first team even when Clark wasn't injured. Bajcetic actually started for us befor he got injured.
Yeah I agree Bajcetic hasn't been great but he also hasn't played competitive football for a year.

 

[keniget]

If Mr Intensity wants Clark do much, let him take him on loan - bollocks to selling him on the cheap (if at all).

My understanding is that the model for those clubs is to develop players and sell on for a profit... and they do it well. There is probably less of an inclination to take a player and develop him for nothing. We can cover ourselves by asking for a sell-on clause.

I might be wrong but I can't imagine there is a queue of English clubs willing to pay huge sums for him. And the alternative is likely a loan move to some Championship club, which is tough and a bit hit and miss. Even if he smashes it out of the park on loan, like Morton did, it'll be exactly the same situation as now a year on.

 

[Hansern]

Newcastle were offered the chance to re-sign Bobby Clark after Liverpool sanction a permanent departure. RB Salzburg current lead the race with a fee north of £12m being discussed
@lee_ryder

 

[tomasjj]

That would be a good fee

 

[bluebell]

That's an interesting take. Morton isn't the dribbler CJ is ( he was a winger before) but imo he's a smarter player.
The issue with Morton is that he's built like McManaman. I'm afraid he'll get bullied in midfield in the Prem.

I wouldn't have minded CJ so much, but the fella is so injury prone. Morton can sit deep, we have others in Sob, Elliot and Mac who can play a bit more advance.
@moron is gonna hate all of you liking my post on selling CJ

View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NSpCGFobqTA

 

[Hyena]

I think we smell an opportunity with Clark. We know Ljinders can't resist a good spunking when he rates a player.

 

[Zlate]

View: https://x.com/daveockop/status/1822968547141709915?s=46

 

[StevieM]

My understanding is that the model for those clubs is to develop players and sell on for a profit... and they do it well. There is probably less of an inclination to take a player and develop him for nothing. We can cover ourselves by asking for a sell-on clause.

I might be wrong but I can't imagine there is a queue of English clubs willing to pay huge sums for him. And the alternative is likely a loan move to some Championship club, which is tough and a bit hit and miss. Even if he smashes it out of the park on loan, like Morton did, it'll be exactly the same situation as now a year on.

I disagree.

We shouldn’t be letting them have one of our valuable youngsters on the cheap because of their business model.

What will we get, a 20% sell on - so we sell for say £15m and to make another £5m, RBS would need to sell at £40m if, as usual, the sell on applies to the amount above the original sell price.

If he develops to a £40m player why did we sell him?

We should be loaning Morton to Leicester, Southampton, Palace, Fulham, etc

Clark can go to Leeds or someone like that.

This strategy isn’t showing a pathway into the first team for youths - it’s showing a “you should have signed elsewhere” vibe.

Also… as good as Nyoni is - we need to not over play him - I wouldn’t be expecting to see much of him this year.

 

[Hansern]

Sounds like Clark and Lijnders were pretty close then. 10-12 mill is a great fee.

 

[peterhague]

Exactly. And its also why I'm not bothered if doak goes; as there's also that Rio kid who we might be trying to fast track as well

Yeah and when Rio gets his chance and beats defenders for fun but hasn't quite got his final ball down yet or learned not to take on that extra man he's spent about 10 years being able to beat with his eyes closed, we can fuck him off too and open the path to the next 16 year old.

 

[keniget]

I disagree.

We shouldn’t be letting them have one of our valuable youngsters on the cheap because of their business model.

What will we get, a 20% sell on - so we sell for say £15m and to make another £5m, RBS would need to sell at £40m if, as usual, the sell on applies to the amount above the original sell price.

If he develops to a £40m player why did we sell him?

We should be loaning Morton to Leicester, Southampton, Palace, Fulham, etc

Clark can go to Leeds or someone like that.

This strategy isn’t showing a pathway into the first team for youths - it’s showing a “you should have signed elsewhere” vibe.

Also… as good as Nyoni is - we need to not over play him - I wouldn’t be expecting to see much of him this year.

Firstly, we're not really sure of offers, valuations or to what degree there is interest in our players so it's hard to determine what "on the cheap" is as things stand or the extent to which someone is valuable. For all we know, the interest in Clark stems entirely from the fact that Ljinders knows him and it's a one off opportunity to extract a higher price than we might get otherwise.

Secondly, sure, a players value could go up if he does well but it could also drop if he doesn't. There is an element of risk. It's a bit of a gamble. It is what it is, you have to make a judgement call.

Look at what happened with Phillips at the more extreme end of things - we could've sold while his value was high for some money but instead signed him up to a long term contract and he's still here at 27 (wow!) doing nothing. Morton is 21 and has been on loan two years running. Perhaps he doesn't want to go on loan again or if he is willing, wants some reassurances - can we give them to him? Not really.

Lastly, Quansah and Bradley established themselves as first team players last season. Clark, Dann and others got significant minutes. Doak would've been given opportunities had he not gotten injured. I don't know in what world a young player would look at Liverpool - of all the top clubs in the Premier League - and go yeah, no pathway to the first team there. We'll see how things go with Slot but I can't imagine we'll suddenly start abandoning youth promotion as a key strategy. We can already see that a path is being laid out for Nyoni.

 

[peterhague]

I disagree.

We shouldn’t be letting them have one of our valuable youngsters on the cheap because of their business model.

What will we get, a 20% sell on - so we sell for say £15m and to make another £5m, RBS would need to sell at £40m if, as usual, the sell on applies to the amount above the original sell price.

If he develops to a £40m player why did we sell him?

We should be loaning Morton to Leicester, Southampton, Palace, Fulham, etc

Clark can go to Leeds or someone like that.

This strategy isn’t showing a pathway into the first team for youths - it’s showing a “you should have signed elsewhere” vibe.

Also… as good as Nyoni is - we need to not over play him - I wouldn’t be expecting to see much of him this year.

Exactly. A youth recruitment strategy based on enhanced first team opportunities isn't very sustainable if "opportunity" means 6 months of occasional sub appearances at 18 years old and then out the door if you're not Jude Bellingham.

Patience is a non-negotiable part of a healthy youth system. Why even fucking bother otherwise.

 

[keniget]

Exactly. A youth recruitment strategy based on enhanced first team opportunities isn't very sustainable if "opportunity" means 6 months of occasional sub appearances at 18 years old and then out the door if you're not Jude Bellingham.

Patience is a non-negotiable part of a healthy youth system. Why even fucking bother otherwise.

Because clubs who want to challenge / win have to find a balance between being competitive and managing youth.

We could go into this season with Kelleher, Quansah, Gomez, Trent, Bradley, Jones, Bajcetic and Elliot in the squad. Players who either came through the youth system or were bought cheaply at a young age and developed.

The lack of perspective here is odd.

 

[Modo]

Firstly, we're not really sure of offers, valuations or to what degree there is interest in our players so it's hard to determine what "on the cheap" is as things stand or the extent to which someone is valuable. For all we know, the interest in Clark stems entirely from the fact that Ljinders knows him and it's a one off opportunity to extract a higher price than we might get otherwise.

Secondly, sure, a players value could go up if he does well but it could also drop if he doesn't. There is an element of risk. It's a bit of a gamble. It is what it is, you have to make a judgement call.

Look at what happened with Phillips at the more extreme end of things - we could've sold while his value was high for some money but instead signed him up to a long term contract and he's still here at 27 (wow!) doing nothing. Morton is 21 and has been on loan two years running. Perhaps he doesn't want to go on loan again or if he is willing, wants some reassurances - can we give them to him? Not really.

Lastly, Quansah and Bradley established themselves as first team players last season. Clark, Dann and others got significant minutes. Doak would've been given opportunities had he not gotten injured. I don't know in what world a young player would look at Liverpool - of all the top clubs in the Premier League - and go yeah, no pathway to the first team there. We'll see how things go with Slot but I can't imagine we'll suddenly start abandoning youth promotion as a key strategy. We can already see that a path is being laid out for Nyoni.

Clark Sr was on Talksport after the league cup win last season and spoke highly of Liverpool's academy and the clear path to the first team.
It was one of the reasons they left Newcastle (for those who didn't follow the Prem in the 90s, Sr is a former player and NUFC superfan).

 

[Modo]

Exactly. A youth recruitment strategy based on enhanced first team opportunities isn't very sustainable if "opportunity" means 6 months of occasional sub appearances at 18 years old and then out the door if you're not Jude Bellingham.

Patience is a non-negotiable part of a healthy youth system. Why even fucking bother otherwise.

Well some of them get a case of the "Bobby Duncan's" and think they're better than what they are and then get found out.

 

[peterhague]

Because clubs who want to challenge / win have to find a balance between being competitive and managing youth.

We could go into this season with Kelleher, Quansah, Gomez, Trent, Bradley, Jones, Bajcetic and Elliot in the squad. Players who either came through the youth system or were bought cheaply at a young age and developed.

The lack of perspective here is odd.

Right, and is that balance not best served by giving a year or so's credit to any half-decent prospect ie sending them on loan, seeing how they get on, and then reappraising next summer?

How exactly does that hurt the primary goal of being competitive? The potential loss of £10m or so in fees?

I tell you, if £10m in fee income is that important to us, we ain't gonna be competitive EITHER way.

 

[Fabio]

Yeah and when Rio gets his chance and beats defenders for fun but hasn't quite got his final ball down yet or learned not to take on that extra man he's spent about 10 years being able to beat with his eyes closed, we can fuck him off too and open the path to the next 16 year old.

And if rio by the age of 20 doesn't know when to shoot, then yeah, i'd probably suggest getting rid of him as well. Like we did suso, pacheco, yesil, morgan, polish messi, etc etc. All hyped to fuck, all binned off when it was clear they weren't good enough.

Whats your hope? Stop buying players until the last player officially isn't good enough? Should we give Doak until he's 24, as thats when wingers tend to reach their peak? He has to wait another year before getting consistent minutes as thats Salahs position, so thats another dead year of development. Or loan him out? Where he doesn't have our training regimen or our tactics to work through? Then we need to hope he can come back and play in our system.

Either you develop quick, or you miss out. Everyone isn't good enough to play for Liverpool, and it's the job of the people who see them day in day out to make that assessment. Decision making isn't something you can develop. You can improve it, sure; but more often that not the cream of the crop has that ability from a very young age. Look at bradley. A couple of loans and he's been fucking excellent on them. Decision making has never really been an issue for him.