Liverpool related transfer speculation

[rurikbird]

Salah was scoring one in two for back to back seasons in Italy. He subsequently exploded in England but your language suggests he was plucked from the playing fields in Egypt. He was already a established proven winger and goalscorer.

Yeah, but at the time people still called him a Chelsea reject or Egyptian Pennant. Same with Mane - he was called inconsistent. I think the Edwards sweet spot is seeing players who have the requisite talent and experience to blossom at the very top level, but not quite the media hype for whatever reason. Most of his best transfers seemed to be on the pricey side at the time for the profile of the player we’re getting, only later revealed to be bargains.

 

[binomial]

It's undeniable that Edward and his scouting team deserve significant credit for discovering Mohamed Salah and bringing him to prominence. Their ability to identify untapped talent in seemingly obvious places is a testament to their skill.

Given the immense impact Salah has had on Liverpool, there's undoubtedly pressure on Edward and his team to replicate that success. Finding a player of similar caliber is a daunting task, but it's one that could solidify their legacy.

We need to get back to doing the business we did in Klopp's early years, both coming and going. The times we've been busiest was when big money players left.

Not sure how we can freshen the squad with enough quality to get back competing for the big prizes given the owners we have. This is why I worry for the future if we're happy to let Salah Virg Robbo etc go for nothing.

 

[Modo]

Gordon is decent, but apart from pace, nothing to warrant the sums mentioned.

We should prioritise a left footed player to take over from Salah.

I honestly believe that none of us here even thought about signing him before it was reported in the media.
Now we're in August and everyone's so desperate for us to sign someone so suddenly Gordon is a viable option.

 

[Glen C]

Lol, being English doesn't help his case 😉.
But honestly I just don't like his antics, he's cheating cunt.

Granted Gordon has more goals and assists than Diaz but the difference is marginal.

Does he have a higher ceiling than Diaz?
Can't say for sure.

Definitely not, and not a game changer either. Diaz has a lot more to his game apart from end product. Gordon is not even that clinical in front of goal himself. I've seen him miss some big chances.

 

[Frogfish]

Definitely not, and not a game changer either. Diaz has a lot more to his game apart from end product. Gordon is not even that clinical in front of goal himself. I've seen him miss some big chances.

I've seen Gerd Muller, Kane, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Maradona miss big chances too!

 

[rubans]

We need to get back to doing the business we did in Klopp's early years, both coming and going. The times we've been busiest was when big money players left.

Not sure how we can freshen the squad with enough quality to get back competing for the big prizes given the owners we have. This is why I worry for the future if we're happy to let Salah Virg Robbo etc go for nothing.

Which big money players left in Klopp’s early years?

 

[binomial]

Which big money players left in Klopp’s early years?

We raised/recouped 160m for Coutinho Sakho and Benteke.

& we sold Sterling for 50m just 3 months before Klopp joined.

Plus we were busy moving a lot of other squad players on which accumulates to big money.

Thankfully the Saudi's have come calling because last couple years we haven't sold a soul.

Arsenal have just sold both Smith Rowe to Fulham and Nketiah to Marseille for 60m. That's outrageous. 2 forward players that've scored about 10 goals between them in 2 years.

 

[KopRed]

You’re probably right, but I still have a small bit of hope that Diaz can be better than what we saw last season - I think the injuries slowed him down and he needed time to find himself again and then the whole kidnapping saga happened.

More than anything, I’m disappointed by how his passing game has deteriorated - early in his LFC career I saw signs in him of a Di Maria like winger-playmaker, he could thread a difficult pass through and try audacious flicks, but lately he all but stopped trying to pass the ball and started relying on his dribbling in every situation. I don’t know if it’s too late to change his game, but if he could be forced to play short passing game again, he would be twice the player.

Now that you have mentioned it...

Indeed, his passes were always driven out of necessity (when he dribbles until he has nowhere to go) rather than a well thought-out pass.

I have never understood why bad habits are so hard to cut out for top players. What do the coaches even do in training?

 

[rubans]

We raised/recouped 160m for Coutinho Sakho and Benteke.

& we sold Sterling for 50m just 3 months before Klopp joined.

Plus we were busy moving a lot of other squad players on which accumulates to big money.

Thankfully the Saudi's have come calling because last couple years we haven't sold a soul.

We sold Coutinho 2yrs into Klopp’s reign.
Benteke and Sakho was sold for about 60m but we did buy them for big money so assume we broke even if at all on them. We sold Sterling in the summer of 2015 and we pretty much spent all that in the same window including Benteke and Ings. I don’t think we have really had ever of selling model of selling big just to buy. Coutinho was an anomaly and I’m not we even wanted to ever sell him but he forced out hand.

 

[KopRed]

We raised/recouped 160m for Coutinho Sakho and Benteke.

& we sold Sterling for 50m just 3 months before Klopp joined.

Plus we were busy moving a lot of other squad players on which accumulates to big money.

Thankfully the Saudi's have come calling because last couple years we haven't sold a soul.

Arsenal have just sold both Smith Rowe to Fulham and Nketiah to Marseille for 60m. That's outrageous. 2 forward players that've scored about 10 goals between them in 2 years.

Klopp was just too loyal to some of his players.

We should have sold Ox, Keita and maybe Thiago long ago.

You are right, we would have never gotten any money off Hendo and Fab if not for the Saudis.

Though to be fair we did also get some good dough off fringe players like Solanke, Brewster, Grujic, Wilson, Minamino, Neco Williams etc.

 

[moron]

I've seen Gerd Muller, Kane, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Maradona miss big chances too!

Dam it, you should have added Darwin Nunez to that list, and it would have made everyone feel good !!!

 

[moron]

I honestly believe that none of us here even thought about signing him before it was reported in the media.
Now we're in August and everyone's so desperate for us to sign someone so suddenly Gordon is a viable option.

This is the actual truth, but you have to show some cultural sensitivity to this, he is a white scoucer, a local boy, someone the kids can aspire to, with a great story, ... dumped out of his boyhood club at a young age, only to be adopted as a slave to the blueshite, then sold like a slave to those barbaric Geordie Arabians, and finally the story could have a decent end for him where he returns home to and fights with everything he has for his beloved reds, winning the quad in his first season ..... its like a hollywood script innit ?

 

[Modo]

This is the actual truth, but you have to show some cultural sensitivity to this, he is a white scoucer, a local boy, someone the kids can aspire to, with a great story, ... dumped out of his boyhood club at a young age, only to be adopted as a slave to the blueshite, then sold like a slave to those barbaric Geordie Arabians, and finally the story could have a decent end for him where he returns home to and fights with everything he has for his beloved reds, winning the quad in his first season ..... its like a hollywood script innit ?

I'd see that movie.

 

[rurikbird]

Isn’t the whole idea of “moneyball” in precisely AVOIDING these “feel-good stories” and the inevitable biases they create?

 

[Modo]

Isn’t the whole idea of “moneyball” in precisely AVOIDING these “feel-good stories” and the inevitable biases they create?

I don't know about you but Moneyball was definitely a feel good story.

Did we watch the same movie?

 

[rurikbird]

I don't know about you but Moneyball was definitely a feel good story.

Did we watch the same movie?

At the core it’s about trusting raw numbers above human “intangibles,” both good and bad. In the iconic “Replacing Matt Damon in the aggregate” meeting, the old-school scouts suggest a player based on how aesthetically nice their swing looks or that their girlfriend is hot “which shows confidence” and dismiss a player like Jeremy Giambi because he has character flaws (in which they were proven right, BTW), to which Billy Beane’s response was invariably - “because he gets on base.” So essentially moneyball is about eliminating the fluff and the human biases and focusing on just a few factors that truly matter - like consistently getting on base in baseball or a number of quality shots generated as an attacker in football.

So applied to football, as I understand it, it means that if a kid from a favela or Slovenia or Indonesia is 1% better than a blue eyed local lad with great smile and famous footballer father, Moneyball principle is that you sign the favela/Slovenian/Indonesian kid, because that extra 1% multiplied across the whole squad will be the difference between winning and not.

 

[tomasjj]

Quant is fine if you acknowledge its limitations, same with qual, so use both.

 

[Modo]

At the core it’s about choosing raw numbers above human “intangibles,” both good and bad. In the iconic “Replacing Matt Damon in the aggregate” meeting, the old-school scouts suggest a player based on how aesthetically nice their swing looks or that their girlfriend is hot “which shows confidence” and dismiss a player like Giambi because he has character flaws (in which they were proven right, BTW), to which Billy Beane’s response was invariably - “because he gets on base.” So essentially moneyball is about eliminating the fluff and the human biases and focusing on just a few factors that truly matter - like getting on base in baseball or a number of quality shots generated as an attacker in football.

Brad Pitt portrays Billy Beane a divorced father and the general manager of the Oakland Athletics. His story arc is centered around his innovative approach to building a competitive baseball team on a limited budget.

Despite initial setbacks and skepticism, Beane’s persistence pays off.

Throughout the film, Beane’s journey is also one of personal growth. He reflects on his own failed playing career and finds redemption in his success as a manager.

By the end of the film, Beane’s methods have not only transformed the Oakland A’s but also revolutionised the way baseball teams are built, leaving a lasting impact on the sport

 

[moron]

Moneyball, applied to football is far more complex than baseball, metrics associated with a player need to be measured against their environment in terms national league, types of opposing teams.

In baseball the metrics associated with players will be more accurate and consistent because each games environment has limited variables compared to football.

@rurikbird , @Modo - the key variable to calculate for each player to determine impact in a team, is how much they impact the goal difference of a team. So if we consider based on what we have seen of both Diaz and Gordon last season.... I think Gordons contributions to Newcastle is more than what Diaz did for us. But lets not forget something about Diaz:

1) when he joined in quad challenge season his contributions to GD was huge.

2) 2nd season hampered by a major injury

3) last season form and games affected by kidnapping of his father, and having to recover mentaly from that.

So in my view to judge him for his time at LFC the real sample is games played in (1), and maybe a maximum of 25 games collectively from his 2nd and 3rd season.

 

[Modo]

 

[Hansern]

Brad Pitt portrays Billy Beane a divorced father and the general manager of the Oakland Athletics. His story arc is centered around his innovative approach to building a competitive baseball team on a limited budget.

Despite initial setbacks and skepticism, Beane’s persistence pays off.

Throughout the film, Beane’s journey is also one of personal growth. He reflects on his own failed playing career and finds redemption in his success as a manager.

By the end of the film, Beane’s methods have not only transformed the Oakland A’s but also revolutionised the way baseball teams are built, leaving a lasting impact on the sport

Is that from a school assignment?

 

[Modo]

Is that from a school assignment?

Copilot 🤣

 

[StevieM]

We need to get back to doing the business we did in Klopp's early years, both coming and going. The times we've been busiest was when big money players left.

Not sure how we can freshen the squad with enough quality to get back competing for the big prizes given the owners we have. This is why I worry for the future if we're happy to let Salah Virg Robbo etc go for nothing.

You’re talking like we have a shit squad that can’t compete - we don’t.

Comparing us now to early Klopp years is just plain loopy - we’ve got a big squad with an ideal blend of youth & experience - sure a couple of new faces would be handy, but it’s not critical.

You’ve also got to let go of this desire for money - we don’t need to be spending gazillions every season - we’re in incoming mode.

 

[Glen C]

I've seen Gerd Muller, Kane, Pele, Messi, Ronaldo and Maradona miss big chances too!

Yeah but they more than made up for it delivering when it matters(apart from kane), gordon doesn't. i don't see what gordon offers that gakpo couldn't do as good from that position.

 

[peekay]

At the core it’s about trusting raw numbers above human “intangibles,” both good and bad. In the iconic “Replacing Matt Damon in the aggregate” meeting, the old-school scouts suggest a player based on how aesthetically nice their swing looks or that their girlfriend is hot “which shows confidence” and dismiss a player like Jeremy Giambi because he has character flaws (in which they were proven right, BTW), to which Billy Beane’s response was invariably - “because he gets on base.” So essentially moneyball is about eliminating the fluff and the human biases and focusing on just a few factors that truly matter - like consistently getting on base in baseball or a number of quality shots generated as an attacker in football.

So applied to football, as I understand it, it means that if a kid from a favela or Slovenia or Indonesia is 1% better than a blue eyed local lad with great smile and famous footballer father, Moneyball principle is that you sign the favela/Slovenian/Indonesian kid, because that extra 1% multiplied across the whole squad will be the difference between winning and not.

Johny Damon, not Matt

 

[binomial]

You’re talking like we have a shit squad that can’t compete - we don’t.

Comparing us now to early Klopp years is just plain loopy - we’ve got a big squad with an ideal blend of youth & experience - sure a couple of new faces would be handy, but it’s not critical.

You’ve also got to let go of this desire for money - we don’t need to be spending gazillions every season - we’re in incoming mode.

It's not a shit squad no but it's being broken up year by year as players leave or get older, we're distancing ourselves away which isn't helped by the poor choices we've made since the quadruple chase....not signing players when it was needed, it will catch up to us. How else do you see us being able to match the likes of City and Madrid again? How else do you see us being able to call ourselves the best club in world football again?

You need owners who push boundaries every once in a while if the infrastructure in front of them isn't perfect like Klopp and the recruiting were between 2017-2020.

We're almost 2 months in since the window opened and the only player I've seen us strongly linked to is Gordon for 70-80m+ and I'm not sure what the plan is anymore if we're prepared to waste our entire budget on him & what's worst is you have fans out there hyping him up and banking on him taking over from Diaz as if he's gonna take us to the heights we were at all because they have their forced agendas against him and Gakpo and overlook the necessity of the team, I can tell you for free that won't happen.

 

[My_Blood_Bleeds_Red]

Trent, arguably the best right back on the planet, didn't play a single minute in that position at the Euros, yet you're using the same selection criteria as a means to write off Gordon. I couldn't give two shits about signing him or not, but Gareth Southgates idiocy shouldn't ever be used as a justification of anything.

I know but he stil didn’t get any minutes. 🤪

 

[dee]

Salah was scoring one in two for back to back seasons in Italy. He subsequently exploded in England but your language suggests he was plucked from the playing fields in Egypt. He was already a established proven winger and goalscorer.

Yepp the competition we faced signing him was immense, we were lucky to fight it off. Especially given the 'one or two' of our fan base who considered him a failed Chelsea reject incapable in the EPL

 

[dee]

I know but he stil didn’t get any minutes. 🤪

"... but Gareth Southgate's idiocy shouldn't ever be used as a justification of anything."

I had to insert the apostrophe in the quote as my eyes burnt but the point is well made and ignored

 

[Zlate]

View: https://x.com/daveockop/status/1819469482764784098?s=46


I hope we don’t sell him, a loan instead.