Klopp's Reaction

[KopRed]

With VVD and Gomez losing their 1v1s and full backs who go AWOL, our defence gets dragged all over the place slipping, falling and diving into desperate challenges. Even the reliable Ali can't do much when opposing players are given so much time on the ball - think Sancho's goal, he was given at least 3 seconds to pick his spot, our defenders were just standing around.

We have to stop playing the high line. Our defenders have lost all confidence. It's back to basics, huddle up, keep it tight and simple. It's not as if our high line are yielding us many goals anymore to mask over the deficiency in defence.

 

[refugee]

Just look at the state of this. Gomez is rightfully getting a lot of criticism, but freeze at one second on this clip. Gomez has to watch the wide player (cause Trent is standing in the middle doing nothing). The one-two is played, and Fabinho rushes out of centre back and presses up, so the runner is completely unopposed. Why did he press up, to play him offside. However VVD is on the edge of the goalkeepers area which Fabinho can't see, playing everyone onside. Neither Gomez nor Fabinho can see it.

 

[Hansern]

How is that team a 'reinvention'?
You've just selected the same team that looked they weren't able to compete with Fulham for large chunks of the game.
Trent needs to drop - I don't care if it's Ramsay or GOmez, give him a second to realize he needs to earn his spot back.
Same with Robbo.
Jota should be our #9 (or Nunez) - Bobby is a bench player.
We need to tweak the system to ensure Salah has chances to get shots on goal - the current set up is keeping him way too isolated and I think that's driving his bad form this year.

Its not the same team. Jota/Nunez didnt start and Thiago went off injured.
Thats exactly what a 4-2-2-2 will do. Full backs are wider, our wide attackers are playing more narrow and hopefully be more infront of goal and a Thiago/Fabinho would ensure we are more compact and leave less space inbetween.

Isnt that reinventing our approach?

 

[Judge Jules]

I know the title of the thread is "Klopp's reaction" but there's another factor nobody's mentioned which IMO plays strongly into all the above, and that's the owners' apparent inflexibility over their financial/strategic model, which has served us well thus far but can't simply continue as before if they want the team to remain successful. Clubs which maintain success over a prolonged period strengthen when they're already strong - it freshens up the squad and ensures that plans and personnel don't simply get re-used until their effectiveness runs out. Klopp clearly feels we needed to bring more quality in during the summer and has equally clearly not been allowed to do so.

I'm not among FSG's habitual critics. They turned the lights on again after the darkness which fell around the club under the two cowboys, many of their choices - chief among them the appointment of Klopp himself - have been spot on and they've done really well to bring the club back into the big league. If they want us to stay there - and you'd think they would given the scale of their investment in the club - they have to face the fact that they'll need to tweak their approach for us to do so.

 

[i_rushie]

I disagree. Klopp conceded that he was wrong to insist on just the one right player (who he had implied was either not ready to move or priced beyond our budget), only to then settle for a 26 year old bombed out of two of the poorest Barca and Juve teams for years while agreeing to an option price that would have seen us compete for highly rated players who had just completed moves.

It's true the money wasn't there for the right player in Klopp's mind, but judging by the last minute move for Caicedo, it was there for Mr Right here Right now.

 

[Judge Jules]

I disagree. Klopp conceded that he was wrong to insist on just the one right player (who he had implied was either not ready to move or priced beyond our budget), only to then settle for a 26 year old bombed out of two of the poorest Barca and Juve teams for years while agreeing to an option price that would have seen us compete for highly rated players who had just completed moves.

It's true the money wasn't there for the right player in Klopp's mind, but judging by the last minute move for Caicedo, it was there for Mr Right here Right now.

We'll have to agree to differ then. A pound to a penny says that that "admission" from Klopp was for public consumption, so he wouldn't be seen openly criticising the owners as that would be Route 1 to alienating them, and that his approach has been very much the product of the limits they imposed on him and on the club's transfer activity generally.

 

[MomoWASright]

I disagree. Klopp conceded that he was wrong to insist on just the one right player (who he had implied was either not ready to move or priced beyond our budget), only to then settle for a 26 year old bombed out of two of the poorest Barca and Juve teams for years while agreeing to an option price that would have seen us compete for highly rated players who had just completed moves.

It's true the money wasn't there for the right player in Klopp's mind, but judging by the last minute move for Caicedo, it was there for Mr Right here Right now.

He didn’t have to spend £65 million on Benteke. We had cash and spunked it on the wrong person.

 

[Hansern]

Isnt that a bit early to say? He has played 235 mins of football for us. Thats roughly 2,5 games.
We used to give players a season, if not half a season. Now its 1 month or 3 odd games.

 

[MomoWASright]

No. He’s shit. We’ve seen it all before. Buy player who plays well against us and they turn out crap. Buy a player who doesn’t have the technical skills to play for us turns out turd. Buy a player and play him elsewhere on the pitch than his previous club did ends up being a shit show.

Shit. Shit. Shit.

 

[mark1975]

No. He’s shit. We’ve seen it all before. Buy player who plays well against us and they turn out crap. Buy a player who doesn’t have the technical skills to play for us turns out turd. Buy a player and play him elsewhere on the pitch than his previous club did ends up being a shit show.

Shit. Shit. Shit.

I rarely make a judgement on a player this early, and he does need time. But the warning signings are as obvious as our current tactical weaknesses. He looks like a square peg in a round hole. And I sort of felt it in the Community Shield too. Felt the hype was going overboard and the dissing of Haaland equally so. Now look.

He looks a bad fit and, I don't know. Maybe it's because we've seen our transfer policy go off the rails a million times before, but it smacks of Carroll/Benteke/Mario, a bit of a desperate punt based on performances against us and stats that were always going to be difficult to translate to the Premiership. The sending off didn't help, but I've been more fucked off with his basic footballing skills which have been lacking. City fans must be laughing their tits off.

Like I say, I'm loathed to write players off early, but there are some fairly obvious worrying signs that are sticking out like a sore thumb.

 

[MomoWASright]

You articulated it better than me. I just went full on Tourette’s.

 

[Hansern]

Yeah, the City fans are laughing at having the possibility to do a 400 mill deal for a player.
Shame no one else can do that in the Premier league.

 

[ibromurph]

Just look at the state of this. Gomez is rightfully getting a lot of criticism, but freeze at one second on this clip. Gomez has to watch the wide player (cause Trent is standing in the middle doing nothing). The one-two is played, and Fabinho rushes out of centre back and presses up, so the runner is completely unopposed. Why did he press up, to play him offside. However VVD is on the edge of the goalkeepers area which Fabinho can't see, playing everyone onside. Neither Gomez nor Fabinho can see it.

That goal is mainly the fault of Fabinho.

But TAA certainly did nothing to help (which is why all this talk of him playing in midfield is a nonsense). It's not the position that's the problem right now. It's his mentality/work-rate, regardless of position.

He's playing like how I'd expect Pogba to play at right back. Essentially a hipster FB who looks pretty on the ball, spraying passes, but has no desire to do any sort of defending in whatever position he plays. It's not even a case of cannot defend, it's a case of does not want to defend.

 

[rurikbird]

 

[LeTallecWiz]

That last bit is *really* worrying ... realy really worrying.
Klopp has his work cut out for him ...

 

[mark1975]

Yeah, the City fans are laughing at having the possibility to do a 400 mill deal for a player.
Shame no one else can do that in the Premier league.

That doesn't justify the difference in quality between the two players and us buying a player that on the face of it, looks a bad fit. The spending is a separate issue, you don't buy shite because you can't buy anyone else. Not when we're talking about these sorts of transfer fees.

 

[ibromurph]

That doesn't justify the difference in quality between the two players and us buying a player that on the face of it, looks a bad fit. The spending is a separate issue, you don't buy shite because you can't buy anyone else. Not when we're talking about these sorts of transfer fees.

Off the back of last night, Oshimen looks a better player than Nunez.

I have no problem with no competing for Haaland (he's been an overglorified tap in merchant). There's no guarantees he's get the service here, he gets from KDB/Foden/Silva at City.

We need less of a goalscorer and more of an all rounder who can play across the front line and has the ability to link up play. Mane could do this at number 9 (see Salah goal against United).

I have doubts whether Nunez or even Jota can do the same. In which case we need to play a 10 behind them.

 

[Donavan Ried]

Just look at the state of this. Gomez is rightfully getting a lot of criticism, but freeze at one second on this clip. Gomez has to watch the wide player (cause Trent is standing in the middle doing nothing). The one-two is played, and Fabinho rushes out of centre back and presses up, so the runner is completely unopposed. Why did he press up, to play him offside. However VVD is on the edge of the goalkeepers area which Fabinho can't see, playing everyone onside. Neither Gomez nor Fabinho can see it.

He has been doing this and getting away with it for far too long

 

[Hyena]

I would trade Nunez for Ivan Toney

 

[mark1975]

I would trade Nunez for Ivan Toney

I'd trade Trent for Neil Ruddock right now. At least if Ruddock couldn't break a sweat, he'd break legs.

 

[Hansern]

That doesn't justify the difference in quality between the two players and us buying a player that on the face of it, looks a bad fit. The spending is a separate issue, you don't buy shite because you can't buy anyone else. Not when we're talking about these sorts of transfer fees.

This isnt the same transfer team that bought Nunez, so comparing it to Carroll/Benteke/Mario is a lazy argument.
Our transfer dealings arent done in that way anymore.
We cant praise our recruitment team for the brilliant job they are doing and then claim they get one wrong after 1 month. It doesnt work like that.

Klopp has described it as something that will take time to get right in terms of adapting. Giving him effectively 3 games is ridiculous, and so is calling it buying shite for the sake of buying someone.
We've just had this discussion about the right type of midfielder. Why on earth would we buy someone just for the sake of it in a forward position?

Anyway, the Trent and Nunez discussions are getting really tiresome already. We'll see where we and them end up during the season in terms of success or not.

 

[Mystic]

Salah and Trent are the two obvious culprits, but I'm also hugely concerned about the form and application of VVD and Fabinho, they've not be anywhere near good enough.

When the hell does Konate return? If he was fit I'd be tempted to start he and Matip next match, also who the hell replaces Trent, I'd put a single cell amoeba there at the moment, the casual manner hes been defending recently ain't on.

I don't care how good you are, the first requirement is always working your arse off for the team, and I've not seen that at all from Trent recently.

 

[tomasjj]

Salah and Trent are the two obvious culprits, but I'm also hugely concerned about the form and application of VVD and Fabinho, they've not be anywhere near good enough.

When the hell does Konate return? If he was fit I'd be tempted to start he and Matip next match, also who the hell replaces Trent, I'd put a single cell amoeba there at the moment, the casual manner hes been defending recently ain't on.

I don't care how good you are, the first requirement is always working your arse off for the team, and I've not seen that at all from Trent recently.

Defending is done as a team, together and is about about organisation, so even the best in the world will be exposed when the wheels have come off.

 

[peekay]

I rarely make a judgement on a player this early, and he does need time. But the warning signings are as obvious as our current tactical weaknesses. He looks like a square peg in a round hole. And I sort of felt it in the Community Shield too. Felt the hype was going overboard and the dissing of Haaland equally so. Now look.

He looks a bad fit and, I don't know. Maybe it's because we've seen our transfer policy go off the rails a million times before, but it smacks of Carroll/Benteke/Mario, a bit of a desperate punt based on performances against us and stats that were always going to be difficult to translate to the Premiership. The sending off didn't help, but I've been more fucked off with his basic footballing skills which have been lacking. City fans must be laughing their tits off.

Like I say, I'm loathed to write players off early, but there are some fairly obvious worrying signs that are sticking out like a sore thumb.

Cant disagree with that. I also worry about whether he has the mentality to handle the pressure of the 85 million pound transfer. I pointed out a month ago about my concern when he started talking openly about the pressure and misplacing simple passes. The best ones - Torres, Suarez - had a killer mentality - strutted onto the Anfield pitch like they owned it. Nunez seems a bit on the emotional side. He seems more interested in getting into stupid and physical verbal battles than do his job which is to score goals. He has made it obvious to everyone in England that it is easy to trigger him. At that time, posters on here pointed that he is not experienced, etc. But if that is the case, we should not have spent 85 million pounds on him.

In his defense, we are not using him correctly. When he is on the pitch, sometimes our fullbacks treat him like Peter Crouch and punt slow crosses in his general direction and expect him to control and bring others into play. When he is in the channels and the ball is played to his feet and he attacks the opposition defenses, he looks more comfortable. @dmishra pointed this out in his other thread.

 

[localny]

I know the title of the thread is "Klopp's reaction" but there's another factor nobody's mentioned which IMO plays strongly into all the above, and that's the owners' apparent inflexibility over their financial/strategic model, which has served us well thus far but can't simply continue as before if they want the team to remain successful. Clubs which maintain success over a prolonged period strengthen when they're already strong - it freshens up the squad and ensures that plans and personnel don't simply get re-used until their effectiveness runs out. Klopp clearly feels we needed to bring more quality in during the summer and has equally clearly not been allowed to do so.

I'm not among FSG's habitual critics. They turned the lights on again after the darkness which fell around the club under the two cowboys, many of their choices - chief among them the appointment of Klopp himself - have been spot on and they've done really well to bring the club back into the big league. If they want us to stay there - and you'd think they would given the scale of their investment in the club - they have to face the fact that they'll need to tweak their approach for us to do so.

One Million %. What they did to get us here was brilliant. But now. it requires a little more.

 

[tombrown]

Klopp's reaction was to kill the monarch ... fair play to him

 

[Irishanfield]

Already got a trophy and there’s still retaining the milk cup and the FA cup.

Looks like the PL and CL would be harder to win though but we have time.

It’s just the first CL game so there’s a small chance we salvage something to get through the group stages with the injured crew coming back.

Also, slim chance but the top team are dropping points in the PL.

The charity shield /community shield isn't a trophy ffs

 

[Irishanfield]

I liked Klopps reaction and think he'll reinvent us for the Wolves game. Not sure what he'll cook up but I think this Napoli game will be the one that changes our approach and gets us going again.
We wont see a shitshow like that were the team doesnt seem to function.

Then we'll be saying it'll be that the wolves game will be the game Thst changes things. Them the ajax then Chelsea....

Klopp will fix it indeed but there seems to be a lot to fix. It just seemsto me that when klopp's tactics work we can wear teams down and eventually score but the problem is we need the whole team working as one unit but as soon as a few of those cogs don't work properly then the whole tactic disintegrates and we become embarrassingly easy to play against. We create nothing even against poor sides and will eventually give up massive chances

 

[Irishanfield]

We needed open heart surgery this summer and all we've done is get a very expensive facelift

That may well have been a botched job

 

[Irishanfield]

No. He’s shit. We’ve seen it all before. Buy player who plays well against us and they turn out crap. Buy a player who doesn’t have the technical skills to play for us turns out turd. Buy a player and play him elsewhere on the pitch than his previous club did ends up being a shit show.

Shit. Shit. Shit.

Its not even That he hasn't hit the ground running but actually he's been so poor that it's not even funny. It's things like his absolute terrible first touch. One example springs to mind, I think it was the Everton game where a long ball played up to him on the left and we have 2 lads busting a gut running through from in midfield with no Everton defenders so 3 v 1 and he struggles to control the ball which allows the tackle to come in. That control is a. On going thing. Positive fans will only remember him being unlucky with That shot but that miscontrol was the big tske away in my eyes. Surely a 65m-85m player should be able to have better ball control than that at 23. Look at Elliott and carvalho.. This is something we have seen a few times with him already so like it's not a one off