"I've Got Enough" - Rafa

[ibromurph]

I'd like to think i'm a balanced poster, and whilst i'm always up for fair criticism (i.e. Rafa & money/transfers) i have to admit, some of the tiresome tirades against Rafa is frankly annoying. Certain posters bash the man with anything they can, however ridiculous. You honestly wouldn't be suprised if they came out tomorrow and said, "Hey, i'm really a Manc".
Personally, i'd like to see their posts deleted or better moderated. But it's like Pavlov's dog, some people only learn when forced.
Now whilst i'm certainly not calling for Nazi-type oversight, it would be nice if good threads didn't always fall into the same old tired shite. I think what's worse is these posters drown out the fair criticism from honest posters.
To be fair to Rafa4PM, for all the Pro-Rafa threads, in the last few months he's shown a fairness that he can be critical of Rafa at certain times. In fact, i think he'd be more honest & more critical if he didn't feel the need to defend Rafa against those who show no-quit in the endless bashing of our manager.
A couple of months ago i made a post about how Rafa4PM (+a few others) was at one end of the scale & how Le chal (+a few others) were at the other end. Since then, i've had to reassess my view. Whilst it's clear that Rafa4PM is Pro-Rafa, generally, i don't think i can honestly say that he & others are part of a RCDNW brigade.. Rafa's faults are there for all to see.. However, Le Chal and his ilk fall off the bloody scale when it comes to RCDNR.. It's actually got beyond the point of embarrassing. If the man the Premier league they'd probably say "meh.. about time". At first, i thought it was honest criticism (truth hurts, right?), but now it's just got so repetitive & so predictable that these posters are just charicatures of themselves & their participation in a thread has a similar effect to that of a grenade: It just ruins it for all (because they know someone will pick up on their remark).

 

[Judge Jules]

Well said.

 

[KopKing]

Good post Ibro It wont happen though, sadly

 

[David Byrne]

Apparently Rafa has said on a Spanish radio station that he's selling Masch to Barca for 30 million euros as it's too much to turn down. I have to say, as long as Xabi stays and we have a quality replacement lined up which leaves us with enough to put towards the rest of our targets, I'd take it.

You never know with these dogdy Spanish sources though, could just be Barca trying to unsettle us.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34073.msg885156#msg885156 date=1244566490]
But that always appears second, mark, once the diehard Rafa-bashers (among whom I don't include you) have had a go. You won't see a thread, or a discussion within a thread, started by someone who wants to give Rafa a real rimming. A pound to a penny says that, if the naysayers quit looking for every last reason (real or, often, imagined) to aim a kick in Rafa's direction, this would rapidly become a non-issue.
[/quote]

Bit chicken and egg, if you ask me.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=David Byrne link=topic=34073.msg885104#msg885104 date=1244562561]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=34073.msg885089#msg885089 date=1244561538]
each to their own but I'm only concerned with a league challenge. so I'm looking at rafa exceeding 86 points (progress) anything above and beyond that in the cup competitions is neither here nor there to me.
[/quote]

I'm sure the fans who pay good money and follow us home and away and expect us to at least try and win every comp we enter will disagree.

2nd in the league is neither here nor there to me, and the minimum expectation every season should be a trophy as it breeds a winning mentality.


[/quote]

Agree with this.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885185#msg885185 date=1244569759]
[quote author=Mamma Mia link=topic=34073.msg885183#msg885183 date=1244569700]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34073.msg885155#msg885155 date=1244565855]
Some do go over the top mate, I've probably been guilty of it too, but that's not his 'irk'.

Critical and well justified posts have repeatedly been the subject of this kind of attitude by Rafa4pm and a few others too in the past, it's not just about posters calling Rafa a cunt, it's often been the issue when fair criticism has been thrown Rafa's way.

For however extreme some of the name calling and disrespect can be, there's some really over the top, blinkered Rafa-love in equal measure.
[/quote]

I honestly don't see how you can perceive it as equal measure. Anyway, I suppose the Liverpool fan in me will always find more of an affinity to those who praise, respect and support my club. I'd take that extreme over the other any day of the week.
[/quote]

Our club and the manager of our club are not the same thing.

[/quote]

And this.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=34073.msg885189#msg885189 date=1244570917]
I'd like to think i'm a balanced poster, and whilst i'm always up for fair criticism (i.e. Rafa & money/transfers) i have to admit, some of the tiresome tirades against Rafa is frankly annoying. Certain posters bash the man with anything they can, however ridiculous. You honestly wouldn't be suprised if they came out tomorrow and said, "Hey, i'm really a Manc".
Personally, i'd like to see their posts deleted or better moderated. But it's like Pavlov's dog, some people only learn when forced.
Now whilst i'm certainly not calling for Nazi-type oversight, it would be nice if good threads didn't always fall into the same old tired shite. I think what's worse is these posters drown out the fair criticism from honest posters.
To be fair to Rafa4PM, for all the Pro-Rafa threads, in the last few months he's shown a fairness that he can be critical of Rafa at certain times. In fact, i think he'd be more honest & more critical if he didn't feel the need to defend Rafa against those who show no-quit in the endless bashing of our manager.
A couple of months ago i made a post about how Rafa4PM (+a few others) was at one end of the scale & how Le chal (+a few others) were at the other end. Since then, i've had to reassess my view. Whilst it's clear that Rafa4PM is Pro-Rafa, generally, i don't think i can honestly say that he & others are part of a RCDNW brigade.. Rafa's faults are there for all to see.. However, Le Chal and his ilk fall off the bloody scale when it comes to RCDNR.. It's actually got beyond the point of embarrassing. If the man the Premier league they'd probably say "meh.. about time". At first, i thought it was honest criticism (truth hurts, right?), but now it's just got so repetitive & so predictable that these posters are just charicatures of themselves & their participation in a thread has a similar effect to that of a grenade: It just ruins it for all (because they know someone will pick up on their remark).
[/quote]

Sieg Heil.

Anyway, I think it's a bit difficult to pigeon-hole posters here.

There are some posters who are very critical of Rafa but are still willing to point out and praise Rafa when he's done well.

And whilst some may disagree, Lech is one of them.

And there are those who are extremely militant and pretty much just want Rafa out; but there's only one name I can think of for that one.

In fairness, some posters who're pro-Rafa are just as scary.

Many seem to think that we're basically a few notches above Nottingham Forest, and that we should thank our lucky stars if we're able to come close to the title and enjoy decent Cup runs (even if we're knocked out in the quarters).

Oh yes, and a regular 3rd or 4th place finish every year is all that we can reasonably expect.

Well, I for one cannot accept that.

If that makes me a Manc, or a relic reminiscing about some golden period in the past, well, so be it.

(Having said that, I think Rafa is on the right track. Hopefully that gets me off some of the hit-lists. ;D )

 

[Tinto]

Lech is the most extreme in what he posts on here and I've never seen him ever praise Rafa but it doesn't mean he's not a Liverpool fan though. I just don't think he ever posts anything when things goes well and become much more vocal, like a big majority, when things goes wrong. I wouldn't ever want people's views about the football club or Rafa to be moderated.

I grew up with it being the norm that Liverpool were top of the pile and that is where I would like to see us be again.

If I were born in the late 80s (or later) and have no recollection of us winning league title after league title, and of us not just constantly being in United's shadow but in Arsenal's too, then I would pretty much consider Rafa's reign so far as a little golden period. Whilst we are still under United's shadow, we're slowly edging out of it and have overtaken Arsenal. Rafa's has made us one of the top 5 teams in Europe... probably one of the top 4, out punching teams like Real Madrid.

We all want to be back where Liverpool were 20 years ago, but it's important for those that often call for Rafa's head to remember where we were just 5 or 10 years ago.

 

[keniget]

Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.

 

[the count]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

Ross has had his moments recently.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

There are a few people who only seem to come on when we've lost or drawn. Tal is one. There's another, but I can't remember his name. Rosco has also been pretty consistent in his hatred of Rafa lately.

On the whole, though, I think you're right: the majority on this site are not biased one way or the other.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885227#msg885227 date=1244576907]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

There are a few people who only seem to come on when we've lost or drawn. Tal is one. There's another, but I can't remember his name. Rosco has also been pretty consistent in his hatred of Rafa lately.

On the whole, though, I think you're right: the majority on this site are not biased one way or the other.

[/quote]

Let's not forget Rashid aswell, but he's another who only rears his head when things go wrong..

 

[keniget]

He's buggered off back to TLW though, hasn't he?

I think there is far more 6CM bashing than there is Rafa bashing. Yeah.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34073.msg885229#msg885229 date=1244577177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885227#msg885227 date=1244576907]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

There are a few people who only seem to come on when we've lost or drawn. Tal is one. There's another, but I can't remember his name. Rosco has also been pretty consistent in his hatred of Rafa lately.

On the whole, though, I think you're right: the majority on this site are not biased one way or the other.

[/quote]

Let's not forget Rashid aswell, but he's another who only rears his head when things go wrong..
[/quote]

Rash isn't peculiar to 6CM though, is he? He's like an LFC internet virus.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885231#msg885231 date=1244577254]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34073.msg885229#msg885229 date=1244577177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885227#msg885227 date=1244576907]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

There are a few people who only seem to come on when we've lost or drawn. Tal is one. There's another, but I can't remember his name. Rosco has also been pretty consistent in his hatred of Rafa lately.

On the whole, though, I think you're right: the majority on this site are not biased one way or the other.

[/quote]

Let's not forget Rashid aswell, but he's another who only rears his head when things go wrong..
[/quote]

Rash isn't peculiar to 6CM though, is he? He's like an LFC internet virus.

[/quote]

Yup, Rash by name...

 

[Skullflower]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885231#msg885231 date=1244577254]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=34073.msg885229#msg885229 date=1244577177]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885227#msg885227 date=1244576907]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

There are a few people who only seem to come on when we've lost or drawn. Tal is one. There's another, but I can't remember his name. Rosco has also been pretty consistent in his hatred of Rafa lately.

On the whole, though, I think you're right: the majority on this site are not biased one way or the other.

[/quote]

Let's not forget Rashid aswell, but he's another who only rears his head when things go wrong..
[/quote]

Rash isn't peculiar to 6CM though, is he? He's like an LFC internet virus.

[/quote]

hahahaha

 

[Rosco]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=34073.msg885227#msg885227 date=1244576907]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=34073.msg885220#msg885220 date=1244576475]
Apart from Lech and Rage - who is consistently Anti-Rafa on this site?

I honestly can't think of anyone.
[/quote]

There are a few people who only seem to come on when we've lost or drawn. Tal is one. There's another, but I can't remember his name. Rosco has also been pretty consistent in his hatred of Rafa lately.

On the whole, though, I think you're right: the majority on this site are not biased one way or the other.

[/quote]

If he stops signing players I hate (e.g. Keane) and trying to sell players I love (e.g. Alonso), I'll have no reason to complain about hi

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=34073.msg885202#msg885202 date=1244572948]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34073.msg885156#msg885156 date=1244566490]
But that always appears second, mark, once the diehard Rafa-bashers (among whom I don't include you) have had a go. You won't see a thread, or a discussion within a thread, started by someone who wants to give Rafa a real rimming. A pound to a penny says that, if the naysayers quit looking for every last reason (real or, often, imagined) to aim a kick in Rafa's direction, this would rapidly become a non-issue.
[/quote]

Bit chicken and egg, if you ask me.
[/quote]

For once I have to disagree. There may be extremes on both sides of the debate but I'm in no doubt which of them always goes on the attack first.

 

[rage]

i like to think of myself as pro liverpool rather than anti-rafa.

all said and done its about expectations, i expect us to win everything.

whilst i am critical of rafa i always try to give reason to this. great managers are remembered for their achievements, great clubs like ours measure achievement through the trophies they win.

as for this interview very early on in this thread i was positive, i'd rather rafa fall flat on his face and say he gave it his all rather than shift blame elsewhere, this interview has that about it and i give him credit for it.

 

[mark1975]

Fair play Rage.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=34073.msg885088#msg885088 date=1244561470]
I'll fight every inch of way to make Liverpool FC champions - Rafa Benitez

Jun 9 2009 by James Pearce, Liverpool Echo

RAFA BENITEZ today promised supporters he is up for the “fight†as he looks to turn Liverpool from Premier League challengers into champions.

The Reds boss admits it will be a testing summer with only a limited transfer kitty at his disposal.

But the buoyant Spaniard, who signed a new five-year deal back in March, is relishing the challenge.

“When I decided to sign a new contract I did it because Liverpool Football Club is more than a club,†he said.

“It is the heart of the city. It is our life and for the people here it means so much.

“I thought I had to sign. We have to fight. We have to do it.

“The people in this city are always fighting and have been fighting all their lives. We want to do the same.

“We know the situation is not fantastic but I have a lot of confidence in our squad and we want to fight like we did this year.â€

Liverpool’s summer spending is expected to be dwarfed by a number of their rivals with Manchester City having already beaten the Reds in the battle to sign Gareth Barry for £12million.

However, Benitez believes his transfer kitty is big enough to land his main targets.

And he insists he only needs “one or two†players to ensure the Reds build on the progress they made during a memorable campaign.

“It has been a terrific season for us,†he said.

“We came very close and we were competing on all fronts. We want to repeat the same next season.

“I won’t talk about any figures and I can’t say how much we have.

“Clearly we don’t have too much to spend but I think we have enough money to add the one or two players that we need.

“I’m very happy with the squad we’ve got.

“If we can sign one or two players then I’m really positive that we can improve.â€

Benitez believes there is much more to come from the current crop, who pushed Manchester United so close in the race for the title.

“I’m also positive because we were talking recently about how Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard didn’t play together for a long time this season,†he added.

“Hopefully they will play together more next season.

“We’ve also got good young players like David Ngog, Nabil El Zhar, Ryan Babel and Emiliano Insua, who was playing really well, coming through.

“We have a very good squad but we can still improve a little bit.

“How much can we improve? Enough to the win the title? I’m sure it will be enough to compete.

“Like this year we will try to compete on all fronts until the end.â€

Benitez’s focus in recent months has been on ensuring the club keep hold of their star names.

Daniel Agger, Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard and Dirk Kuyt have all followed their manager’s lead by agreeing new deals.

“Clearly we knew the situation in the world would be difficult this summer,†he said.

“Some clubs were asking for our players so the priority was to extend the contracts of our key players. Those players who are the spine of the team.

“We spent some money to guarantee this and now we just have to improve a little bit because we are in a very good position.â€

Benitez will celebrate five years in the Anfield hotseat next week and he admits the support of the fans continues to inspire him.

“Every single year, every single week and every single day when you talk with a fan he is supporting you and supporting the team,†he said.

“You can see the passion and it makes a massive difference.

“This city has passion. When we talk about Evertonians they have passion for their club that is really good.

“Our fans are amazing and when I talk with people in Spain they all say the same.

“We will see it again when we go to Asia in pre-season.

“I receive a lot of letters from people talking about the club. And as I said before this is more than a club. It is the heart of the city.â€
[/quote]

For all the (often warranted) criticism of Rafa's moaning and complaining to the press, it's only fair we acknowledge articles like this one.

That's exactly the sort of positive, upbeat message you want to send out to the fans. Fantastic comments from Benitez there, who - it must be said - has been excellent in everything he's said over the last month or so.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34073.msg885255#msg885255 date=1244578618]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=34073.msg885202#msg885202 date=1244572948]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=34073.msg885156#msg885156 date=1244566490]
But that always appears second, mark, once the diehard Rafa-bashers (among whom I don't include you) have had a go. You won't see a thread, or a discussion within a thread, started by someone who wants to give Rafa a real rimming. A pound to a penny says that, if the naysayers quit looking for every last reason (real or, often, imagined) to aim a kick in Rafa's direction, this would rapidly become a non-issue.
[/quote]

Bit chicken and egg, if you ask me.
[/quote]

For once I have to disagree. There may be extremes on both sides of the debate but I'm in no doubt which of them always goes on the attack first.
[/quote]

Happening a bit recently ;D

Anyway, this will all be water under the bridge, hopefully.

If we sign well this window, I think we'll be flying in August and all the RCDNW's can exult all they like; coz nothing would make me happier.

 

[Avmenon]

For all the (often warranted) criticism of Rafa's moaning and complaining to the press, it's only fair we acknowledge articles like this one.

That's exactly the sort of positive, upbeat message you want to send out to the fans. Fantastic comments from Benitez there, who - it must be said - has been excellent in everything he's said over the last month or so.
[/quote]

Agreed.

It's a great statement he's making.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=34073.msg885464#msg885464 date=1244601432]

For all the (often warranted) criticism of Rafa's moaning and complaining to the press, it's only fair we acknowledge articles like this one.

That's exactly the sort of positive, upbeat message you want to send out to the fans. Fantastic comments from Benitez there, who - it must be said - has been excellent in everything he's said over the last month or so.
[/quote]

Agreed.

It's a great statement he's making.
[/quote]

It is, and that air of defiance is pretty important right now with the speculation surrounding the amounts Chelsea, Madrid and City are willing to fork out this Summer. All three could get massive leg-ups during this transfer window, but we'll hold our great little unit together and tweak it to hopefully give us the edge.

 

[Judge Jules]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=34073.msg885404#msg885404 date=1244588726]
[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=34073.msg885088#msg885088 date=1244561470]
I'll fight every inch of way to make Liverpool FC champions - Rafa Benitez

Jun 9 2009 by James Pearce, Liverpool Echo

RAFA BENITEZ today promised supporters he is up for the “fight†as he looks to turn Liverpool from Premier League challengers into champions.

The Reds boss admits it will be a testing summer with only a limited transfer kitty at his disposal.

But the buoyant Spaniard, who signed a new five-year deal back in March, is relishing the challenge.

“When I decided to sign a new contract I did it because Liverpool Football Club is more than a club,†he said.

“It is the heart of the city. It is our life and for the people here it means so much.

“I thought I had to sign. We have to fight. We have to do it.

“The people in this city are always fighting and have been fighting all their lives. We want to do the same.

“We know the situation is not fantastic but I have a lot of confidence in our squad and we want to fight like we did this year.â€

Liverpool’s summer spending is expected to be dwarfed by a number of their rivals with Manchester City having already beaten the Reds in the battle to sign Gareth Barry for £12million.

However, Benitez believes his transfer kitty is big enough to land his main targets.

And he insists he only needs “one or two†players to ensure the Reds build on the progress they made during a memorable campaign.

“It has been a terrific season for us,†he said.

“We came very close and we were competing on all fronts. We want to repeat the same next season.

“I won’t talk about any figures and I can’t say how much we have.

“Clearly we don’t have too much to spend but I think we have enough money to add the one or two players that we need.

“I’m very happy with the squad we’ve got.

“If we can sign one or two players then I’m really positive that we can improve.â€

Benitez believes there is much more to come from the current crop, who pushed Manchester United so close in the race for the title.

“I’m also positive because we were talking recently about how Fernando Torres and Steven Gerrard didn’t play together for a long time this season,†he added.

“Hopefully they will play together more next season.

“We’ve also got good young players like David Ngog, Nabil El Zhar, Ryan Babel and Emiliano Insua, who was playing really well, coming through.

“We have a very good squad but we can still improve a little bit.

“How much can we improve? Enough to the win the title? I’m sure it will be enough to compete.

“Like this year we will try to compete on all fronts until the end.â€

Benitez’s focus in recent months has been on ensuring the club keep hold of their star names.

Daniel Agger, Fernando Torres, Steven Gerrard and Dirk Kuyt have all followed their manager’s lead by agreeing new deals.

“Clearly we knew the situation in the world would be difficult this summer,†he said.

“Some clubs were asking for our players so the priority was to extend the contracts of our key players. Those players who are the spine of the team.

“We spent some money to guarantee this and now we just have to improve a little bit because we are in a very good position.â€

Benitez will celebrate five years in the Anfield hotseat next week and he admits the support of the fans continues to inspire him.

“Every single year, every single week and every single day when you talk with a fan he is supporting you and supporting the team,†he said.

“You can see the passion and it makes a massive difference.

“This city has passion. When we talk about Evertonians they have passion for their club that is really good.

“Our fans are amazing and when I talk with people in Spain they all say the same.

“We will see it again when we go to Asia in pre-season.

“I receive a lot of letters from people talking about the club. And as I said before this is more than a club. It is the heart of the city.â€
[/quote]

For all the (often warranted) criticism of Rafa's moaning and complaining to the press, it's only fair we acknowledge articles like this one.

That's exactly the sort of positive, upbeat message you want to send out to the fans. Fantastic comments from Benitez there, who - it must be said - has been excellent in everything he's said over the last month or so.
[/quote]

For me things really came together when we played Real in the CL. It was around that time that Rafa finally got his way over Parry. The team then went out and hammered Real at Anfield, and played some superb stuff for what was left of the season. If things keep on the way they're going, my hope is we'll look back on that as a pivotal point in our recent history.

 

[TheBunnyman]

Plus let's not forget that we murdered Real Madrid 5-0 in the CL and finished 36 pts ahead of Man City. Even Kaka, Tevez and Ronaldo might not be enough to bridge those gaps. As for Chelski... well, they'll be a threat. But they're starting over with a new manager AGAIN, so we've got stability and continuity on our side.

As long as we hold on to our best players, we'll challenge seriously for the PL and the CL again, I think, irrespective of who we sign.

 

[Buddha]

[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=34073.msg885464#msg885464 date=1244601432]

For all the (often warranted) criticism of Rafa's moaning and complaining to the press, it's only fair we acknowledge articles like this one.

That's exactly the sort of positive, upbeat message you want to send out to the fans. Fantastic comments from Benitez there, who - it must be said - has been excellent in everything he's said over the last month or so.
[/quote]

Agreed.

It's a great statement he's making.
[/quote]

It'll be even better if he backs it up by signing one or two top class players with his budget as he's suggested.

I'm really hoping for at least one genuinely exciting signing for our front 4.