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Inside the H&G Regime

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Parry doesn't cover himself or Moores in glory. GG told us it would be alright so that was that.

Rafa comes across as being really nice but a bit mental, I couldn't disagree with Shelvey more. The only job Rafa should have at Liverpool is as a cheer leader, he had his go at it, did well but ultimately he failed to deliver and blamed everybody else.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318667#msg1318667 date=1303282485]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=45012.msg1318195#msg1318195 date=1303233737]
All of these are just trivial details. The fact that two idiots were mismanaging everything and poisoning the club is secondary to the fact that we have to reduce our spending on wages. That's what I've learned on here.
[/quote]

I think you're lying Fark. You've always given the impression you know everything already.

There were three idiots managing and poisoning the club btw. Good things occured under all three even though they were incompetent and ill suited for the task at hand.
[/quote]

Are you suggesting Rafa was "incompetent and ill suited for the task"?
 
Over a period of five or so years he was able to outspend all but city and chelsea and consistently had a top four wage bill yet bought us to seventh in the league.

I would argue that makes him, at best , a poor manager. He consistently failed to make the most out of the resources to hand.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318714#msg1318714 date=1303287500]
Over a period of five or so years he was able to outspend all but city and chelsea and consistently had a top four wage bill yet bought us to seventh in the league.

I would argue that makes him, at best , a poor manager. He consistently failed to make the most out of the resources to hand.
[/quote]

On the one hand you champion this detached, almost purely economic analysis. On the other, you have an incredibly obvious and completely blinkered bias against Rafa.

So absurd is the bias that at times you overextend your argument so far that you seem to be defending two thoroughly detestable cunts, and at all times you are eager to apportion equal blame to Rafa for our failings over the period of time.

Rafa had his heart in the right place and failed after significant success. The other two cunts were cunts.

I'm sorry if my ability to recognize that plain truth strikes you as being a know it all. I find putting Rafa in the same category as H&G thoroughly repulsive and wrong.
 
So you have no defence of Rafa, you're just having a go at me?

I think that says enough. He was a good at coaching, awful at managing is my opinion. Thats why under his watch we declined massively. His decision making is the main reason we entered the doldrums. Kenny and Commolis decision making is the,reason we'll leave the doldrums soon.

And as for cunts and who had their hearts in the right place, rape and pillage of the club etc etc the very simple irony is that the one man to take more money out of the club than anyone else was the one who "cares about the club".

I think Rafa is as much of a cunt as G&H so I see no reason, to read them differently. They were all in it to feather their own nests, only Rafa succeeded.
 
We did not "decline massively" on Rafa's watch. We took one step back for every two steps forward, but that's a very different matter.

And Rafa could have taken the club for a lot more if he'd gone to law, whereas the fact that H and G didn't wind up trousering millions themselves wasn't for want of trying.
 
He wouldnt have because he would have had duty to mitigate his losses, which he did by taking the Inter job. He negotiated a settlement in the knowledge that he had already lined up that job.

His loss would have been negligible. A pittance.

We were a Champions League club when he took over, last year we werent good enough to qualify on merit for the Europa.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318714#msg1318714 date=1303287500]
Over a period of five or so years he was able to outspend all but city and chelsea and consistently had a top four wage bill yet bought us to seventh in the league.

I would argue that makes him, at best , a poor manager. He consistently failed to make the most out of the resources to hand.
[/quote]

rafa spent a lot of money but the decline started when we were making a profit in transfer windows. just because rafa has spent a lot of money you don't stop giving him money, that biting off your nose to spite your face. 3 transfer windows where we spent next to no money (nett) what the fuck did the owners THINK was going to happen?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318764#msg1318764 date=1303291951]
He wouldnt have because he would have had duty to mitigate his losses, which he did by taking the Inter job. He negotiated a settlement in the knowledge that he had already lined up that job.

His loss would have been negligible. A pittance.

We were a Champions League club when he took over, last year we werent good enough to qualify on merit for the Europa.
[/quote]
We didn't qualify for the champions league the season before he took over, I realise we did qualify season after that but we weren't really pulling up any trees before Rafa in Champions league anyway. Rafa despite his faults was the first manager in 25 yrs to make us a true European Powerhouse and even Cruyff was admiring our peformances in 2009.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318764#msg1318764 date=1303291951]
He wouldnt have because he would have had duty to mitigate his losses, which he did by taking the Inter job. He negotiated a settlement in the knowledge that he had already lined up that job.

His loss would have been negligible. A pittance.

We were a Champions League club when he took over, last year we werent good enough to qualify on merit for the Europa.
[/quote]

He'd have had a powerful argument, namely the welfare of his kids, on which to base a refusal to leave home and go to Inter.

We were a Champions League club without a realistic hope of ever making it count. Rafa gave us Istanbul and another CL final two years later. The fact that things have stalled since then is certainly partly down to him, but by no means exclusively so.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318764#msg1318764 date=1303291951]
He wouldnt have because he would have had duty to mitigate his losses, which he did by taking the Inter job. He negotiated a settlement in the knowledge that he had already lined up that job.

His loss would have been negligible. A pittance.

We were a Champions League club when he took over, last year we werent good enough to qualify on merit for the Europa.
[/quote]

A 'Champions League club'? Where were we ranked in Europe at the time Rafa took over? Where were we ranked 4 years later?
Did Rafa negotiate all player wages and transfer fees, signing on bonuses, etc? Because the quote from that article above would suggest he didn't.
But the wage bill was his fault? Apart from his final season and his first (where he won the CL), he consistently kept Liverpool in the top 4, not to mention a club record haul of points. So was it such a horrible thing to have a wage bill that was amongst the top 4 highest in the league?
 
Are we really going to do this again?

Some on here think H&G are to blame for everything, some think Rafa is to blame for everything.

Most think both are to blame for how shit we became, but between the parties I think most can agree that whilst Rafa ultimately failed, he did appreciate the club and did value it. As opposed to the scum owners who just make everyone sick.

I knew this thread would descend into farce.
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318803#msg1318803 date=1303293759]
Are we really going to do this again?

Some on here think H&G are to blame for everything, some think Rafa is to blame for everything.

Most think both are to blame for how shit we became, but between the parties I think most can agree that whilst Rafa ultimately failed, he did appreciate the club and did value it. As opposed to the scum owners who just make everyone sick.

I knew this thread would descend into farce.
[/quote]

rafa certainly made his fair share of mistakes but if you are spending next to nothing in several transfer windows and your rivals are all improving then you are going fall behind (arsenal aside).

you only have to look at our league position pre/post the reduction in spending. sure, rafa spent loads but is that a reason to cut off his supply, who does that help? certainly not LFC.
 
I'm not going to defend those owners.

I think they were scum and nearly destroyed this club for the sake of their profits.

But what do you think would have happened had Rafa bought the same players over the same number of bad windows and we were owned by FSG?

That's right.
 
I know i have a go at Rafa alot, but reading this shit makes me feel sorry for what he had to deal with. Im starting to warm to the thought of giving him another shot after we win all those titles with kenny. Just imagine Rafa signed the players he asked for instead, where would we be now?

Barry instead of Keane
Dani Alves instead of Pennant
Malouda instead of Babel
Jovetic

Yeah he signed some shit players, but how many of them were because we couldnt afford better or we just wouldnt pay the extra few mil
 
Quite. There is an argument that he shouldn't have signed anybody if he couldn't get the ones he really wanted, but I can just imagine the furore on here if THAT had happened.
 
What a lot of posters don't realise is that if you want to win things, you have to have everybody in the club committed to sporting success. With the ownership we had (and the MD) we never stood a chance and the fact that Rafa kept us in the elite with that pair of clowns, shows the he did a sterling job. Kenny and the club are benefiting from the foundations that Rafa laid down. He was a excellent manager for us and his win ratio supports that. We were never really geared up to win anything of note, sadly. FSG are a breath of fresh air. Smart guys committed to bringing success at the club. That with a good manager should turn things around.
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318803#msg1318803 date=1303293759]

Most think both are to blame for how shit we became, but between the parties I think most can agree that whilst Rafa ultimately failed, he did appreciate the club and did value it. As opposed to the scum owners who just make everyone sick.

[/quote]

Most would accept that, but Ross has such a one dimensional black and white take on this that he needs to cast Rafa as a diabolical villain, always self serving, with no love for the club. I've no doubt that if Rosco were to give you his real opinion on Rafa's charitable work in the city, he would tell you it was a cynical way of currying favour with the fanbase.

The subject of Rafa converts Rosco into a complete looney-tune.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=45012.msg1318764#msg1318764 date=1303291951]
He wouldnt have because he would have had duty to mitigate his losses, which he did by taking the Inter job. He negotiated a settlement in the knowledge that he had already lined up that job.

His loss would have been negligible. A pittance.

We were a Champions League club when he took over, last year we werent good enough to qualify on merit for the Europa.
[/quote]

We were a shit occasional champions league club Rosco... actually why bother.... it was rafas fault the owners were tip top and really helped the place along. You win.
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=45012.msg1318838#msg1318838 date=1303296534]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318803#msg1318803 date=1303293759]

Most think both are to blame for how shit we became, but between the parties I think most can agree that whilst Rafa ultimately failed, he did appreciate the club and did value it. As opposed to the scum owners who just make everyone sick.

[/quote]


The subject of Rafa converts Rosco into a complete looney-tune.
[/quote]

And "Keano".

Don't forget about "Keano".

They are to him what Lucas was to Brendan.

It really is bananas !
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=45012.msg1318838#msg1318838 date=1303296534]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318803#msg1318803 date=1303293759]

Most think both are to blame for how shit we became, but between the parties I think most can agree that whilst Rafa ultimately failed, he did appreciate the club and did value it. As opposed to the scum owners who just make everyone sick.

[/quote]

Most would accept that, but Ross has such a one dimensional black and white take on this that he needs to cast Rafa as a diabolical villain, always self serving, with no love for the club. I've no doubt that if Rosco were to give you his real opinion on Rafa's charitable work in the city, he would tell you it was a cynical way of currying favour with the fanbase.

The subject of Rafa converts Rosco into a complete looney-tune.
[/quote]

I wouldnt call it looney-tune.

I used to be quite cynical about it as well, but I do now think that Rafa appreciates the club a great deal.
 
I know it might seem fun to pick on Rosco, but I personally think his views on Rafa the manager were a lot more accurate than many on here give him credit for. I do think he's a bit harsh on Rafa the man.

*us lawyers gotta stick together*
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318877#msg1318877 date=1303300814]
I know it might seem fun to pick on Rosco, but I personally think his views on Rafa the manager were a lot more accurate than many on here give him credit for. I do think he's a bit harsh on Rafa the man.

*us lawyers gotta stick together*
[/quote]

The majority of Liverpool fans don't share that view. Did you see the reception he had at the Hillsborough memorial? Maybe you're out of touch being so far away
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45012.msg1318884#msg1318884 date=1303301224]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318877#msg1318877 date=1303300814]
I know it might seem fun to pick on Rosco, but I personally think his views on Rafa the manager were a lot more accurate than many on here give him credit for. I do think he's a bit harsh on Rafa the man.

*us lawyers gotta stick together*
[/quote]

The majority of Liverpool fans don't share that view. Did you see the reception he had at the Hillsborough memorial? Maybe you're out of touch being so far away
[/quote]

Aww...would it help if I accused you of being racist too?


That's one of your favourite pastimes, isn't it?
 
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318887#msg1318887 date=1303301327]
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45012.msg1318884#msg1318884 date=1303301224]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318877#msg1318877 date=1303300814]
I know it might seem fun to pick on Rosco, but I personally think his views on Rafa the manager were a lot more accurate than many on here give him credit for. I do think he's a bit harsh on Rafa the man.

*us lawyers gotta stick together*
[/quote]

The majority of Liverpool fans don't share that view. Did you see the reception he had at the Hillsborough memorial? Maybe you're out of touch being so far away
[/quote]

Aww...would it help if I accused you of being racist too?


That's one of your favourite pastimes, isn't it?
[/quote]

As a pasttime it's infinitely preferable to being one, don't you think?
 
I wouldn't know, since I rarely make that accusation.

Aren't you going to play the 'when was the last time you went to Anfield' card?
 
[quote author=KopKing link=topic=45012.msg1318884#msg1318884 date=1303301224]
[quote author=Avvy link=topic=45012.msg1318877#msg1318877 date=1303300814]
I know it might seem fun to pick on Rosco, but I personally think his views on Rafa the manager were a lot more accurate than many on here give him credit for. I do think he's a bit harsh on Rafa the man.

*us lawyers gotta stick together*
[/quote]

The majority of Liverpool fans don't share that view. Did you see the reception he had at the Hillsborough memorial? Maybe you're out of touch being so far away
[/quote]

That's an absolute cunt of a post
 
Avvy, I don't think anyone is disagreeing with the criticism, the problem is that Rosco seems to be saying that Rafa has been as bad for the club as the former owners.

It's absolutely mental to suggest that.
 
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