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How Much To Spend ?

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A perfect scenario from the Mascher transfer would be;

Getting 25 mill £

Signing Khedira from Stuttgart as his replacement. Valued at around 12-13 mill £ because of 1 year left on his contract.

And then have 12-13 mill left for Turan/new left back etc.

That would be amazing.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135121#msg1135121 date=1279021289]
A perfect scenario from the Mascher transfer would be;

Getting 25 mill £

Signing Khedira from Stuttgart as his replacement. Valued at around 12-13 mill £ because of 1 year left on his contract.

And then have 12-13 mill left for Turan/new left back etc.

That would be amazing.

[/quote]

Using your example....

25 mill for Masch

13 mill for Khedira, plus 3m a year for 4 yrs

No money for Turan or new left back
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135130#msg1135130 date=1279021992]
Doesn't quite work like that, but fair enough.
[/quote]

Ummmmm, it works almost precisely like that.
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135138#msg1135138 date=1279022398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135130#msg1135130 date=1279021992]
Doesn't quite work like that, but fair enough.
[/quote]

Ummmmm, it works almost precisely like that.
[/quote]

But we're saving the wages when we sell Masher, no? It isn't like when we offer an improved contracts and this is taken out of the budget, is it?
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=40953.msg1135142#msg1135142 date=1279022720]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135138#msg1135138 date=1279022398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135130#msg1135130 date=1279021992]
Doesn't quite work like that, but fair enough.
[/quote]

Ummmmm, it works almost precisely like that.
[/quote]

But we're saving the wages when we sell Masher, no? It isn't like when we offer an improved contracts and this is taken out of the budget, is it?
[/quote]

Thats right. The only thing that would be removed from a transfer budget would be his siging on fee etc.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135146#msg1135146 date=1279023000]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=40953.msg1135142#msg1135142 date=1279022720]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135138#msg1135138 date=1279022398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135130#msg1135130 date=1279021992]
Doesn't quite work like that, but fair enough.
[/quote]

Ummmmm, it works almost precisely like that.
[/quote]

But we're saving the wages when we sell Masher, no? It isn't like when we offer an improved contracts and this is taken out of the budget, is it?
[/quote]

Thats right. The only thing that would be removed from a transfer budget would be his siging on fee etc.


[/quote]

Not true, because if he doesnt actually hand in a transfer request he gets paid a proportion of his remaining contract.
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135150#msg1135150 date=1279023522]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135146#msg1135146 date=1279023000]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=40953.msg1135142#msg1135142 date=1279022720]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135138#msg1135138 date=1279022398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135130#msg1135130 date=1279021992]
Doesn't quite work like that, but fair enough.
[/quote]

Ummmmm, it works almost precisely like that.
[/quote]

But we're saving the wages when we sell Masher, no? It isn't like when we offer an improved contracts and this is taken out of the budget, is it?
[/quote]

Thats right. The only thing that would be removed from a transfer budget would be his siging on fee etc.


[/quote]

Not true, because if he doesnt actually hand in a transfer request he gets paid a proportion of his remaining contract.
[/quote]

i thought that was tied into the money that inter would give us. If he didn't hand in a transfer request then fair enough theres a loyalty bonus, but if he handed it in, then we get that percentage off inter, or he gets it as his signing bonus
 
So you're saying that we're going to have to pay Mascher a sum for the rest of his contract, when he wants to leave and is sold to another club?

Yeah, that is a very likely scenario.. If we offered him to other clubs, sure. But when he wants to leave, regardless of a transfer request. I can assure you that a bonus or payment like this is taken quickly of the table imho.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135155#msg1135155 date=1279024109]
So you're saying that we're going to have to pay Mascher a sum for the rest of his contract, when he wants to leave and is sold to another club?

Yeah, that is a very likely scenario.. If we offered him to other clubs, sure. But when he wants to leave, regardless of a transfer request. I can assure you that a bonus or payment like this is taken quickly of the table imho.
[/quote]

i'm really confused by grjts post still. It can't work like that
 
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40953.msg1135156#msg1135156 date=1279024332]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135155#msg1135155 date=1279024109]
So you're saying that we're going to have to pay Mascher a sum for the rest of his contract, when he wants to leave and is sold to another club?

Yeah, that is a very likely scenario.. If we offered him to other clubs, sure. But when he wants to leave, regardless of a transfer request. I can assure you that a bonus or payment like this is taken quickly of the table imho.
[/quote]

i'm really confused by grjts post still. It can't work like that
[/quote]

Cant work like what?

The player has a very lucrative contract, you are looking to cash in on him and need to settle the contract he has in place - he will almost certainly take a proportion of it (as he is keen on the move) but he will seek recompense. You can try and get the buying club to cover some of this, but tit for tat they will look to reduce the buying price if they feel this is too high.

Per Hicks' interviews - Liverpools transfers are now handled in "US sport fashion" - meaning that the fully built up cost of the players contract is deducted from the transfer coffers, including any potential win bonuses, or other clauses, that the club are liable for.
 
But thats not the case here, we're not looking to cash in on him and he wants to leave.

He hasn't got much to bargain with if he's that desperate to leave. I'm guessing the same happened with Alonso, as he had a much longer contract and was on very high wages. But we still managed to buy quite expencive players last season.
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135166#msg1135166 date=1279025526]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40953.msg1135156#msg1135156 date=1279024332]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135155#msg1135155 date=1279024109]
So you're saying that we're going to have to pay Mascher a sum for the rest of his contract, when he wants to leave and is sold to another club?

Yeah, that is a very likely scenario.. If we offered him to other clubs, sure. But when he wants to leave, regardless of a transfer request. I can assure you that a bonus or payment like this is taken quickly of the table imho.
[/quote]

i'm really confused by grjts post still. It can't work like that
[/quote]

Cant work like what?

The player has a very lucrative contract, you are looking to cash in on him and need to settle the contract he has in place - he will almost certainly take a proportion of it (as he is keen on the move) but he will seek recompense. You can try and get the buying club to cover some of this, but tit for tat they will look to reduce the buying price if they feel this is too high.

Per Hicks' interviews - Liverpools transfers are now handled in "US sport fashion" - meaning that the fully built up cost of the players contract is deducted from the transfer coffers, including any potential win bonuses, or other clauses, that the club are liable for.
[/quote]

That doesn't make any sense at all. How can you build in the 'fully built up cost, including any potential win bonuses' of trophies or matches you haven't won ?

That being the case, since we performed like shite last year and lost 19 matches I assume 30M has now been put back into the transfer kitty.

Besides which if you ask for a transfer then no contract termination bonuses are payable.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135287#msg1135287 date=1279035986]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135166#msg1135166 date=1279025526]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=40953.msg1135156#msg1135156 date=1279024332]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135155#msg1135155 date=1279024109]
So you're saying that we're going to have to pay Mascher a sum for the rest of his contract, when he wants to leave and is sold to another club?

Yeah, that is a very likely scenario.. If we offered him to other clubs, sure. But when he wants to leave, regardless of a transfer request. I can assure you that a bonus or payment like this is taken quickly of the table imho.
[/quote]

i'm really confused by grjts post still. It can't work like that
[/quote]

Cant work like what?

The player has a very lucrative contract, you are looking to cash in on him and need to settle the contract he has in place - he will almost certainly take a proportion of it (as he is keen on the move) but he will seek recompense. You can try and get the buying club to cover some of this, but tit for tat they will look to reduce the buying price if they feel this is too high.

Per Hicks' interviews - Liverpools transfers are now handled in "US sport fashion" - meaning that the fully built up cost of the players contract is deducted from the transfer coffers, including any potential win bonuses, or other clauses, that the club are liable for.
[/quote]

That doesn't make any sense at all. How can you build in the 'fully built up cost, including any potential win bonuses' of trophies or matches you haven't won ?

That being the case, since we performed like shite last year and lost 19 matches I assume 30M has now been put back into the transfer kitty.

Besides which if you ask for a transfer then no contract termination bonuses are payable.
[/quote]

Dont shoot the messenger.

Its what they do in American sports, and it makes perfect sense - balance the potential income of any scenario, with what they will have to outlay - obviously with most of the significant prizes (winning prem, CL) the income will undoubtedly outstrip the payout to players re terms in their contracts, but when it comes to win bonuses etc the club will need to do its maths, and account for the money in its estimates.
 
Well as an American I guess you know well the system over there. Seems like a cockamamy idea to me, another X against Hicks & Co.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135297#msg1135297 date=1279037305]
Well as an American I guess you know well the system over there. Seems like a cockamamy idea to me, another X against Hicks & Co.
[/quote]

Im not American, but Hicks was pretty clear at the AGM or whatever it was that this was the case.

And its actually a very sensible accounting approach that ensures you dont get into the same trouble that West Ham or Newcastle have got into (basically buying a player for 10m, but only paying 5m up front, with 1m every year after that, plus contract stipulations etc - Ashley found that the entire transfer budget he could set aside for the new season was already used up on previous seasons deals, and paying wages to players that had left, bonuses to players that were there, etc). Eventually the never, never, would have bankrupted the club.

So derived from sports in the US which have some of the most complicated contract structures in world sport, and so not really an X against Hicks and co, but rather one of their very few pluses...
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135124#msg1135124 date=1279021398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135121#msg1135121 date=1279021289]
A perfect scenario from the Mascher transfer would be;

Getting 25 mill £

Signing Khedira from Stuttgart as his replacement. Valued at around 12-13 mill £ because of 1 year left on his contract.

And then have 12-13 mill left for Turan/new left back etc.

That would be amazing.

[/quote]

Using your example....

25 mill for Masch

13 mill for Khedira, plus 3m a year for 4 yrs

No money for Turan or new left back
[/quote]


Say Mascher and Khedira would be getting paid the same a week.

Therefore take the 13mil from the 25mil we'd recieve and we'd still have 12mil to spend. We dont have to pay mascherano shit as he is the one that wants to leave no the other way around
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135303#msg1135303 date=1279037830]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135297#msg1135297 date=1279037305]
Well as an American I guess you know well the system over there. Seems like a cockamamy idea to me, another X against Hicks & Co.
[/quote]

Im not American, but Hicks was pretty clear at the AGM or whatever it was that this was the case.

And its actually a very sensible accounting approach that ensures you dont get into the same trouble that West Ham or Newcastle have got into (basically buying a player for 10m, but only paying 5m up front, with 1m every year after that, plus contract stipulations etc - Ashley found that the entire transfer budget he could set aside for the new season was already used up on previous seasons deals, and paying wages to players that had left, bonuses to players that were there, etc). Eventually the never, never, would have bankrupted the club.

So derived from sports in the US which have some of the most complicated contract structures in world sport, and so not really an X against Hicks and co, but rather one of their very few pluses...
[/quote]

Of course you need to have financial forecasts - but you can account for variables in ways other than deducting all costs associated with buying a player from the transfer kitty. This was introduced quite simply because H&G loaded the debt onto the club and they needed to find funds from somewhere / anywhere / everywhere to service it. Reducing the transfer kitty helped. Still an X against Hicks.
 
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=40953.msg1135304#msg1135304 date=1279037892]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135124#msg1135124 date=1279021398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135121#msg1135121 date=1279021289]
A perfect scenario from the Mascher transfer would be;

Getting 25 mill £

Signing Khedira from Stuttgart as his replacement. Valued at around 12-13 mill £ because of 1 year left on his contract.

And then have 12-13 mill left for Turan/new left back etc.

That would be amazing.

[/quote]

Using your example....

25 mill for Masch

13 mill for Khedira, plus 3m a year for 4 yrs

No money for Turan or new left back
[/quote]


Say Mascher and Khedira would be getting paid the same a week.

Therefore take the 13mil from the 25mil we'd recieve and we'd still have 12mil to spend. We dont have to pay mascherano shit as he is the one that wants to leave no the other way around
[/quote]

Well done, and he's also a mean, mean boy thats been very nasty to the other children, so wont be able to go to the end of term cake party either.

Give me a fucking break. Until he puts in a transfer request, the same terms apply whether he's been jockeying for a move behind the scenes or not. The only thing you can hope for is that his desire to go quickly outweighs his desire to dig in for a few extra quid; but make no mistake, without a transfer request we will be paying out some amount for the pleasure of his departure.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135307#msg1135307 date=1279038221]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135303#msg1135303 date=1279037830]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135297#msg1135297 date=1279037305]
Well as an American I guess you know well the system over there. Seems like a cockamamy idea to me, another X against Hicks & Co.
[/quote]

Im not American, but Hicks was pretty clear at the AGM or whatever it was that this was the case.

And its actually a very sensible accounting approach that ensures you dont get into the same trouble that West Ham or Newcastle have got into (basically buying a player for 10m, but only paying 5m up front, with 1m every year after that, plus contract stipulations etc - Ashley found that the entire transfer budget he could set aside for the new season was already used up on previous seasons deals, and paying wages to players that had left, bonuses to players that were there, etc). Eventually the never, never, would have bankrupted the club.

So derived from sports in the US which have some of the most complicated contract structures in world sport, and so not really an X against Hicks and co, but rather one of their very few pluses...
[/quote]

Of course you need to have financial forecasts - but you can account for variables in ways other than deducting all costs associated with buying a player from the transfer kitty. This was introduced quite simply because H&G loaded the debt onto the club and they needed to find funds from somewhere / anywhere / everywhere to service it. Reducing the transfer kitty helped. Still an X against Hicks.
[/quote]

Fair point, you can account for it elsewhere in the accounts, but given that the transfer kitty/ player contracts pot is essentially the most fluid area it makes sense for it to sit here.
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135124#msg1135124 date=1279021398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135121#msg1135121 date=1279021289]
A perfect scenario from the Mascher transfer would be;

Getting 25 mill £

Signing Khedira from Stuttgart as his replacement. Valued at around 12-13 mill £ because of 1 year left on his contract.

And then have 12-13 mill left for Turan/new left back etc.

That would be amazing.

[/quote]

Using your example....

25 mill for Masch

13 mill for Khedira, plus 3m a year for 4 yrs

No money for Turan or new left back
[/quote]

You are forgetting that Masher's salary over the next 2 years has already been accounted for and would be in the credit column.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135311#msg1135311 date=1279038424]
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135124#msg1135124 date=1279021398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135121#msg1135121 date=1279021289]
A perfect scenario from the Mascher transfer would be;

Getting 25 mill £

Signing Khedira from Stuttgart as his replacement. Valued at around 12-13 mill £ because of 1 year left on his contract.

And then have 12-13 mill left for Turan/new left back etc.

That would be amazing.

[/quote]

Using your example....

25 mill for Masch

13 mill for Khedira, plus 3m a year for 4 yrs

No money for Turan or new left back
[/quote]

You are forgetting that Masher's salary over the next 2 years has already been accounted for and would be in the credit column.

[/quote]

Think that was clarified a bit higher up - but youre right, however it would be any difference between the allocated amount and the increase....

Previously they would have simply said the wage bill is £XXXmillion pounds (which is per season rather than contracted amount). Now they would say our wage commitment is £XXXXmillion pounds over so many years, and manage it as a total, as well as tracking the per season cost.
 
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=40953.msg1135317#msg1135317 date=1279038947]
Got it. Thanks for the clarification.
[/quote]

No problem, its a dull but robust process!
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=40953.msg1134999#msg1134999 date=1279008462]
We may not HAVE to but if a player is unhappy you tend to sell them.[/quote]

True, but generally players that are unhappy start playing shit.

Mascher's been as committed on the field as ever, if he's performing like that then fuck it, he (and his linguistically challenged wife)can be as unhappy as they like, it's loadsamoney or nothing
 
[quote author=grjt link=topic=40953.msg1135138#msg1135138 date=1279022398]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=40953.msg1135130#msg1135130 date=1279021992]
Doesn't quite work like that, but fair enough.
[/quote]

Ummmmm, it works almost precisely like that.
[/quote]

I'd be quite surprised if it did. People have made a massive fuss of something that is a simple arithmetic problem.

If you've got 120m to spend on your football team in a year and you add 10m to a 100m wage bill that then I think it's only logical that the transfer kitty is 10m in order to balance the books. (all hypothetical figures)
 
Yeah, 'transfer kitty' always includes wages, and or contract re-negotiations. Maybe add in interest repayments while you're fucking at it
 
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