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Rafa's Transfer record.

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[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42488.msg1208389#msg1208389 date=1288460163]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42488.msg1208387#msg1208387 date=1288459909]
Peter: Yes. But it remains a failed signing.
[/quote]


well alright then.
[/quote]

Your answer is probably why this bullshit discussion will be going on in 20 years.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208391#msg1208391 date=1288460253]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42488.msg1208388#msg1208388 date=1288460008]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208382#msg1208382 date=1288459285]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42488.msg1208378#msg1208378 date=1288458718]
Asbo...i have one question.

Would you be happy if we repeated a similar sequence of transfers for the next (lets say)8 transfer windows?
[/quote]

I'd be happy with 4 Cup Finals A European Cup and a FA Cup Wins, getting European Cup football in EVERY season bar one, and getting to at least the Semi Finals in most of them, and getting our best League points return in 20 years.

Give me that now and I'll bite yer hand off
[/quote]

I hope you understand why you couldn't give a straight answer to that question...
[/quote]

Would I like another Alonso Torres Pepe Macher etc etc and 5 shit players costing 1M to 5M to go with every one of them? I'd take a chance on it yeah, for a Torres Alonso Pepe and Macherano
[/quote]

113 players came in on Rafa's watch (buy, swaps, frees)

Might need to alter that ratio of good players to bad ones.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208386#msg1208386 date=1288459756]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=42488.msg1208384#msg1208384 date=1288459598]
Will we still be having these threads in 3010?
[/quote]

No 5 years from now everyone will look back on Rafa's reign happily, like we do now with Ged Houlliers, the spite he was getting was 10x worse than Rafa got.
[/quote]

Really?
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42488.msg1208395#msg1208395 date=1288460887]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42488.msg1208389#msg1208389 date=1288460163]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=42488.msg1208387#msg1208387 date=1288459909]
Peter: Yes. But it remains a failed signing.
[/quote]


well alright then.
[/quote]

Your answer is probably why this bullshit discussion will be going on in 20 years.
[/quote]


it's like the arab-israeli conflict! except i'm right and you're wrong.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42488.msg1208398#msg1208398 date=1288461278]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208391#msg1208391 date=1288460253]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42488.msg1208388#msg1208388 date=1288460008]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208382#msg1208382 date=1288459285]
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42488.msg1208378#msg1208378 date=1288458718]
Asbo...i have one question.

Would you be happy if we repeated a similar sequence of transfers for the next (lets say)8 transfer windows?
[/quote]

I'd be happy with 4 Cup Finals A European Cup and a FA Cup Wins, getting European Cup football in EVERY season bar one, and getting to at least the Semi Finals in most of them, and getting our best League points return in 20 years.

Give me that now and I'll bite yer hand off
[/quote]

I hope you understand why you couldn't give a straight answer to that question...
[/quote]

Would I like another Alonso Torres Pepe Macher etc etc and 5 shit players costing 1M to 5M to go with every one of them? I'd take a chance on it yeah, for a Torres Alonso Pepe and Macherano
[/quote]

113 players came in on Rafa's watch (buy, swaps, frees)

Might need to alter that ratio of good players to bad ones.
[/quote]


about 40-45 first-team players were brought in for significant sums, depending on what you think is significant (i'm saying £200k), including free transfers.

you moan on the one hand about 'bullshit discussions' but are happy enough to use blatant spin that's inevitably going to cause arguments, so don't get on your high horse with this 'night of the long goatee' bilge.
 
It's not spin at all.

If Asbo wants to talk about ratios of 1 good player for 5 bad ones, I think it's dishonest.

Which is something all the worshippers like you share.

I never talked about the sums.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42488.msg1208410#msg1208410 date=1288462148]
It's not spin at all.

If Asbo wants to talk about ratios of 1 good player for 5 bad ones, I think it's dishonest.

Which is something all the worshippers like you share.

I never talked about the sums.
[/quote]


it's deliberately obscuring the point, i call that spin. a good 55-60 of those players you mention are kids brought in for peanuts because our academy was useless - whether it's good or bad, it's a seperate discussion from his transfer record. and lay off with the 'worshipper' bollocks, it's beneath you.
 
Rafa is a great tactician.
Rafa was great in the transfer market for us.
When Rafa took over, We had a squad that was widely recognized as one of the top 4 clubs in the premier league.
Rafa was backed well enough to bring in 100 over players in 6 years. At least 40 of those were players above 19 years of age and therefore brought to be first team players.

Why the hell did we not win the league? Everything was perfect.

Something doesn't add up. I can agree to disagree, if this is about an opinion. But this is a fact based argument. Did he or did he not bring in those players? Did they or did they not play well for us? There is nothing to disagree here. There is a right and a wrong answer. People who have taken over the club think we have been wasteful in the transfer market, and said as much in the press. But, we still have fans on the interweb claiming everything was hunky dory.
 
Has Rafa ever won a trophy with a squad he built himself?

His squads get worse the longer he's been in charge and the more power he gets.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42488.msg1208421#msg1208421 date=1288463115]
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=42488.msg1208410#msg1208410 date=1288462148]
It's not spin at all.

If Asbo wants to talk about ratios of 1 good player for 5 bad ones, I think it's dishonest.

Which is something all the worshippers like you share.

I never talked about the sums.
[/quote]


it's deliberately obscuring the point, i call that spin. a good 55-60 of those players you mention are kids brought in for peanuts because our academy was useless - whether it's good or bad, it's a seperate discussion from his transfer record. and lay off with the 'worshipper' bollocks, it's beneath you.
[/quote]

It's obscuring the point if I pretended that all those players came in on big money, which I didnt.

Which is why I dont see why you continually accuse me of spin.

But if you think that we only need to look at players coming in on big money as counting towards his transfer record, then you're entitled to that opinion.

As for the 'worshipper bollocks' I apologize.

It's a comment I shouldnt make now, I agree.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42488.msg1208431#msg1208431 date=1288464239]
Has Rafa ever won a trophy with a squad he built himself?

His squads get worse the longer he's been in charge and the more power he gets.


[/quote]

Despite winning the league 2 out 3 years in Valencia......
 
wasteofmoey_195314a.JPG


"PHILIPP DEGEN

THE Swiss star came in on a free transfer, was given a £2m signing-on fee and £37,000 a week. Currently on loan at Stuttgart. "

"CHARLES ITANDJE

ARGUABLY the worst signing of them all. The French keeper, on £1m a year, is now down to fifth choice. "

"MILAN JOVANOVIC

BENITEZ'S last big deal, a £70,000-a-week free signing from Standard Liege. Already lost his starting place. "
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42488.msg1208431#msg1208431 date=1288464239]
Has Rafa ever won a trophy with a squad he built himself?

His squads get worse the longer he's been in charge and the more power he gets.


[/quote]


oh fucking brilliant, the mourinho line - his squads got progressively worse from 2005. honestly, i don't know whether to laugh or cry or fucking scream. i've seen you post this opinion of yours - that he was incapable of building a squad - a few times as if it was a fact, complete of course with trademark, er, 'self-confidence'. i just don't buy that at all. i think by 07/08 he'd built a balanced and strong squad, not perfect, and lacking flair on the wings, but generally good enough imo to mount some sort of challenge for the title - the fact that he didn't i accept as a valid critcism. i don't think he should have been expected to win it, but being in the hunt past christmas should have been possible. anyway, here's a 22 man version of that squad, alongside the equivalent players he inherited:

reina, 25 dudek, 31
carson, 21 kirkland, 23
finnan, 31 finnan, 28
arbeloa, 24 henchoz, 30
carragher, 29 carragher, 26
hyypia, 33 hyypia, 30
agger, 22 traore, 24
insua, 18 warnock, 22
riise, 26 riise, 23
aurelio, 27 diao, 27
sissoko, 22 hamann, 31
mascherano, 23 biscan, 26
lucas, 20 murphy, 27
alonso, 25 le tallec, 19
gerrard, 27 gerrard, 24
benayoun, 27 smicer, 31
kewell, 28 kewell, 25
babel, 21 diouf, 23
kuyt, 27 sinama-pongolle, 19
crouch, 26 cisse, 23
voronin, 28 baros, 22
torres, 23 owen, 24

of those 22 players, 21 were or were to become full internationals (aurelio's the odd one out btw), and 16 were bought by benitez; the average age is 25.1, and no player under 30 is part of the first XI. that is without doubt a better squad than the one he inherited - it's practically a fact, and it's also crystal clear that it's benitez's squad, not houllier's. so he built a good squad - i don't see any room for argument. of course, it was weakened over the next 2 years, and benitez shares some of the blame: the alonso/aquilani fuck-up, to some extent the keane transfer (although who knows what would've happened if crouch had wanted to stay or if we'd have been able to replace keane), the riise/dossena debacle. but ultimately all those mistakes would probably have been remediable given time and the money recouped, although the time lost would have been big negatives, obviously. there were also big factors beyond his control: the money drying up, and inherited players like hyypia, finnan and kewell ageing and needing replacements.



the jibe that he hasn't won a trophy with his own squad - very conveniently and questionably discounting the 10 or so players he'd signed before the FA cup win in 2006, mind you - is about as childish and deliberately petty as it gets. so trophies are the only barometer of progress in football, then? to the exclusion of everything else? never mind the CL final in 2007. never mind another semi in 2008, where we were desperately unlucky not to take at least a 1-0 lead to stamford bridge. never mind the the excellent progress and title challengein 2009. they were all teams very capable of winning trophies - they didn't, but it'd take a very special type of dickhead to try to use that as proof that they couldn't.
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=42488.msg1208448#msg1208448 date=1288465698]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42488.msg1208431#msg1208431 date=1288464239]
Has Rafa ever won a trophy with a squad he built himself?

His squads get worse the longer he's been in charge and the more power he gets.


[/quote]

Despite winning the league 2 out 3 years in Valencia......
[/quote]

He didn't build or add to that squad. It was chosen for him.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42488.msg1208518#msg1208518 date=1288494101]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=42488.msg1208431#msg1208431 date=1288464239]
Has Rafa ever won a trophy with a squad he built himself?
His squads get worse the longer he's been in charge and the more power he gets.
[/quote]

i think by 07/08 he'd built a balanced and strong squad, not perfect, and lacking flair on the wings, but generally good enough imo to mount some sort of challenge for the title - the fact that he didn't i accept as a valid critcism.

so he built a good squad - i don't see any room for argument. of course, it was weakened over the next 2 years, and benitez shares some of the blame: the alonso/aquilani fuck-up, to some extent the keane transfer (although who knows what would've happened if crouch had wanted to stay or if we'd have been able to replace keane), the riise/dossena debacle. but ultimately all those mistakes would probably have been remediable given time and the money recouped, although the time lost would have been big negatives, obviously. there were also big factors beyond his control: the money drying up, and inherited players like hyypia, finnan and kewell ageing and needing replacements.

[/quote]


I think that is a fair summary of Rafa's performance in the transfer market. But i do feel we go in circles when we are talking about this, and most people who read (see evidence in this thread) find this very tedious.

Here is what i have to say about this, and i think most of the below 5 points are just another way of putting what you posted in the above post. Point out if you disagree with anything in particular.

1. He built a good enough squad to win or at least challenge in 07/08. The Squad had some weakness on the wings, but was very very competitive otherwise.
2. But he was backed with money to address that part of the squad too -(Babel, Luis Garcia, Yossi, Pennant, Nunez, Rierra, Bellamy. Gonzales, Leto are all players he brought to primarily play on the wings)
3. He had to dismantle some of the best parts of his good squad, usually due to his own man-management issues, (Xabi, Crouch etc.), and sometimes due to those players fucking up or having personal problems (Bellamy, Riise, Arbeloa etc.)
4. When he did sell those players because of above problems, he did move them on at a good profit.
5. When he re-used that money he catastrophically failed. Because he had switched from his policy of buying a lot of good value for money players in the 6 - 12 million range to buying fewer 18 to 20 million price range players.

The problem is, he expected to work with the same success rate he had in the 6-12 million punts. The owners were right to expect a higher success rate at a higher price range. Further, not many owners other than the ones at Chelsea, City and Real can provide that kind of backing at that price range. So i will refuse to put the blame directly on the owners for Rafa's failures with the playing squad.

The end result when he left is
1. We never addressed the weakness on the wing
2. We punctured the best elements of our squad
3. Some of our home-grown star players have aged in that time
and we are left with a squad that is worse than what Houlier left Rafa.

I would say the blame for this is split (80/20) between Rafa and Owners. I would disagree with anyone who says it was all the Owner's fault.
 
It's always difficult to do these sorts of lists because we're missing so much of the detail. We don't know what signing-on fees, bonuses, agent fees, contract pay offs and so forth were handed out throughout this time, so we can't really say how frugal (or not as it were) Benitez was. For example, players like Voronin are listed as frees who were then sold on to make a supposed profit. We know that they were given bumper signing on fees though, which probably made their signing a loss making venture.

And all that is before you really assess their contribution to the side. Guys like Itandje and Degen have been paid a lot of money during their time at Liverpool and you have to say we've gotten next to no value out of any of that money. How and where is that going to be recorded?
 
ok, most of that seems fair enough, but i'll just list any points like you did:

1. of course people find this tedious. but they know what to expect so it's easy enough to ignore if they want to. also, i think you'll notice, and childish as it might be to point it out, that i very rarely start this discusson, and am generally just reacting to things i see as particularly unfair: it's not like i go out of my way to wind people up by claiming what a brilliant record benitez had in the market (not that i think that, anyway).
2. maybe this falls under the banner of pedantry, but i wouldn't say he ever switched his policy exactly - he bought cheaper players when the squad was small and he had limited funds, and more expensive players once H&G arrived and the squad had more depth. tbf, that probably is pedantic, but fuck it, i've typed it now.
3. i don't agree at all that he left a weaker squad than he inherited. i've got to say though, i find this pretty bloody irritating, because it was only a few days ago that we were having almost exactly the same discussion and i posted a very long explanation of my thoughts on this, with detailed analysis of the squads in question. IIRC you replied, but only to an unrelated specific question i asked because you seemed to have some objection to debating points not raised in quetion-form - don't ask me why. so hopefully you can see that it's a bit galling to have answered this once already, to have seen my points ignored, and then not only to have to answer the same argument again, but also to be ticked off for repeatedly clogging up the forum with the same old bickering! hopefully you can appreciate the irony.

anyway, i'm a nice chap so i've dug out that post, and here's the relevant extract about the squads (the parts that are your words quoted are blue, and i've added some further words in red):

Fact is, he took-over a good squad no he didn't (good enough to win the Champions League no it wasn't, not by any rational measure, anyway. by that logic i could say he himself left a squad good enough to win a houllier-style cup treble, or a squad bad enough to be relegated from the premier league.), and after buying about at least 30 players for the senior squad in 6 years, we are now weaker in most positions than when he first came in see below. We have absolutely no depth to top it off.

I think it is safe to put some of that blame on Rafa of course. This 'Only 58 million pound net spend for 6 years' argument does not convince me in the least bit.

< Kingjulian


2004 squad

dudek, 31
kirkland, 23
finnan, 28
henchoz, 30
hyypia, 30
carragher, 26
riise, 23
warncok, 22
diao, 27
biscan, 26
hamann, 31
murphy, 27
gerrard, 24
smicer, 31
le tallec, 19
kewell, 25
diouf, 23
sinama-pongolle, 19
mellor, 18
owen, 24
cisse, 23
baros, 22

(22 players in or close to first team squad)

first XI average age 26.5
squad average age 25


2010 squad

reina, 27
cavalieri, 27
johnson 26
kelly, 20
carragher, 32
agger, 25
skrtel, 25
kyrgiakos, 31
wilson, 18
insua, 21
mascherano, 26
lucas, 23
shelvey, 18
aquilani, 26
gerrard, 30
maxi, 29
benayoun, 30
riera, 28
babel, 23
kuyt, 30
pacheco, 19
n'gog, 21
torres, 26

(23 players in or close to first team squad)

first XI average age 26.9
squad average age 25.2


to me, those squads look fairly well matched - you certainly wouldn't immediately say houllier's was stronger. if i was to pick a 22 man squad from both, it'd be:

reina RB
dudek GH
finnan GH
johnson RB
carragher N/A
hyypia GH
agger RB
skrtel RB
riise GH
warnock GH
mascherano RB
hamann GH
murphy GH
gerrard N/A
aquilani RB
benayoun RB
kewell GH
babel RB
cisse GH
kuyt RB
owen GH
torres RB

10 each. not much to choose between a potential 1st XI, either. the one thing i think benitez's clealy wins on is the value of the players outside the first XI, the ones you could sell on to regenerate the squad. houllier left:

warnock left for £1.5m, call that £2.5m real terms
henchoz left on free 6 months later, say value july 04 £1m real terms
diao left on free a year later, say value july 04 £1m real terms
biscan left on free a year later,say value july 04 £1m real terms
smicer left on free a year later, say value £2.5m real terms
le tallec left for nominal fee a couple of years later, say value july 04 £3m real terms
sinama-pongolle left for £2.7m a couple of year later, say value july 04 real terms £3.5m
diouf left year later for £3.5m, say value july 04 real terms £5m
mellor left for £500k two years later, say value july 04 real terms £750k
baros had good euro 2004, stock high, value say £8m, perhaps £13.5m real terms

therefore rough estimate of real terms value of squad players available for transfer = £33.75m

benitez left:

kelly estimate £2.5m
wilson estimate £3.5m
skrtel estimate £8m
kyrgiakos estimate £1m
shelvey estimate £3m
aquilani estimate pre-loan £10m
maxi estimate £4m
riera £3.5m
babel estimate £7.5m
pacheco estimate £3m
n'gog estimate £3m

therefore estimate of value of squad players benitez left = £49m


anyway, it should at least be crystal clear that the squad rafa inherited was not a CL-winning squad, barring a miracle - which is what benitez delivered.
Click to expand...
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=42488.msg1208535#msg1208535 date=1288505987]
It's always difficult to do these sorts of lists because we're missing so much of the detail. We don't know what signing-on fees, bonuses, agent fees, contract pay offs and so forth were handed out throughout this time, so we can't really say how frugal (or not as it were) Benitez was. For example, players like Voronin are listed as frees who were then sold on to make a supposed profit. We know that they were given bumper signing on fees though, which probably made their signing a loss making venture.

And all that is before you really assess their contribution to the side. Guys like Itandje and Degen have been paid a lot of money during their time at Liverpool and you have to say we've gotten next to no value out of any of that money. How and where is that going to be recorded?
[/quote]

They're not going to answer you.

It doesnt fit in with their magical 'net spend and recouping of transfer fees' argument.

They only answer the easy things like 'the squad he left is weaker than the one he inherited' and 'he couldnt build a title winning side'

As for the mountain of money wasted on shit, well, that was Parry's fault.

Remember how he forced Keane down Rafa's throat and all.

Hell, Rafa probably didnt want Ijtande either.
 
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42488.msg1208538#msg1208538 date=1288506968]

3. i don't agree at all that he left a weaker squad than he inherited. i've got to say though, i find this pretty bloody irritating, because it was only a few days ago that we were having almost exactly the same discussion and i posted a very long explanation of my thoughts on this, with detailed analysis of the squads in question. IIRC you replied, but only to an unrelated specific question i asked because you seemed to have some objection to debating points not raised in quetion-form - don't ask me why. so hopefully you can see that it's a bit galling to have answered this once already, to have seen my points ignored, and then not only to have to answer the same argument again, but also to be ticked off for repeatedly clogging up the forum with the same old bickering! hopefully you can appreciate the irony.
[/quote]

I didn't mean to say i find this argument tedious mate. I was merely commenting on the general opinion/tone of the rest of the board, and i could see where some of those posts were coming from.

Regarding the value of squad Rafa inherited vs the squad Rafa left behind.

In terms of quality you say the players were well matched. I agree, there was not much between them. I'd give the strikers/wingers and full backs to Houliers team. I'd give the goal-keeper, Central Defenders and Central Midfieldsers to Rafa's team.

But to be honest i would take a Squad with a young Gerrard, Carra, and a Hyypia with four of five years left in his legs over the squad that Rafa has left any day of the week. An injury prone Torres> An injury prone Owen, but the usable depth available from Cisse, Baros, Pongolle et all was far better than the depth we have now. Reina >>>Dudek. Mascherano = Hamman and Hyypia was better than Agger/Skrtel. But beyond that we are looking at average players all round in both squads. So which squad was better is as subjective an issue as a debate on how you pronounce potatoes. I should have said we are an arguably weaker side.

I would prefer Houlier's squad mainly because of the age of our key players. Also i (also some others on this very thread) think that comparing money value of players in a squad over actual usefulness of the players to put points on the table is pretty futile accountant's exercise that we don't even want to go into. For one, it is very inaccurate, and two over 6 years transfer window fee, and wage dynamics has changed.

So i hope you don't hang on to my statement that Rafa's squad was weaker, as i'm willing to conceded that point to you, if all you say is Rafa's Squad was comparable to Houliers. But after 40 first team players coming in and going out, we are within reason to expect more than that, and it also seems a bit too easy to blame the owners who did back him well enough to see 40 players come and go in that time....whose fault is it, if we are where we are after all that?
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42488.msg1208648#msg1208648 date=1288525312]
[quote author=peterhague link=topic=42488.msg1208538#msg1208538 date=1288506968]

3. i don't agree at all that he left a weaker squad than he inherited. i've got to say though, i find this pretty bloody irritating, because it was only a few days ago that we were having almost exactly the same discussion and i posted a very long explanation of my thoughts on this, with detailed analysis of the squads in question. IIRC you replied, but only to an unrelated specific question i asked because you seemed to have some objection to debating points not raised in quetion-form - don't ask me why. so hopefully you can see that it's a bit galling to have answered this once already, to have seen my points ignored, and then not only to have to answer the same argument again, but also to be ticked off for repeatedly clogging up the forum with the same old bickering! hopefully you can appreciate the irony.
[/quote]

I didn't mean to say i find this argument tedious mate. I was merely commenting on the general opinion/tone of the rest of the board, and i could see where some of those posts were coming from.

Regarding the value of squad Rafa inherited vs the squad Rafa left behind.

In terms of quality you say the players were well matched. I agree, there was not much between them. I'd give the strikers/wingers and full backs to Houliers team. I'd give the goal-keeper, Central Defenders and Central Midfieldsers to Rafa's team.

But to be honest i would take a Squad with a young Gerrard, Carra, and a Hyypia with four of five years left in his legs over the squad that Rafa has left any day of the week. An injury prone Torres> An injury prone Owen, but the usable depth available from Cisse, Baros, Pongolle et all was far better than the depth we have now. Reina >>>Dudek. Mascherano = Hamman and Hyypia was better than Agger/Skrtel. But beyond that we are looking at average players all round in both squads. So which squad was better is as subjective an issue as a debate on how you pronounce potatoes. I should have said we are an arguably weaker side.

I would prefer Houlier's squad mainly because of the age of our key players. Also i (also some others on this very thread) think that comparing money value of players in a squad over actual usefulness of the players to put points on the table is pretty futile accountant's exercise that we don't even want to go into. For one, it is very inaccurate, and two over 6 years transfer window fee, and wage dynamics has changed.

So i hope you don't hang on to my statement that Rafa's squad was weaker, as i'm willing to conceded that point to you, if all you say is Rafa's Squad was comparable to Houliers. But after 40 first team players coming in and going out, we are within reason to expect more than that, and it also seems a bit too easy to blame the owners who did back him well enough to see 40 players come and go in that time....whose fault is it, if we are where we are after all that?

[/quote]

Rafa brought in 59 Players: I can't see 40 of them being classed as 1st Teamers though?

7 were 'Free signings'
1 was on loan
2 were player exchanges
13 cost under 1 Million
8 cost between 1-2 Million
5 cost 2-5 Million
17 cost 5-10 Million
2 cost 10-15 Million
4 cost 15-20 Million
1 alone cost 20+ Torres
 
I think this thread confirms one thing. Rafael Benitez bought an awful lot of players during his tenure which makes his complaint that we moved too slowly in the transfer market a little worrying.

I'd hate to have seen the amount of purchases if we had moved things along at the pace he wanted.
 
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208712#msg1208712 date=1288534582]
Rafa brought in 59 Players: I can't see 40 of them being classed as 1st Teamers though?

7 were 'Free signings'
1 was on loan
2 were player exchanges
13 cost under 1 Million
8 cost between 1-2 Million
5 cost 2-5 Million
17 cost 5-10 Million
2 cost 10-15 Million
4 cost 15-20 Million
1 alone cost 20+ Torres
[/quote]

If they didn't have potential to play in the first team they shouldn't have been bought. 40 was a rough guess, so it appears he boght 59 players for the senior squad in 6 years. That is 10 players for the senior squad every year. Name a club that has moved more players than that.

I really don't know what your point is.
 
[quote author=kingjulian link=topic=42488.msg1208752#msg1208752 date=1288538814]
[quote author=Asbo link=topic=42488.msg1208712#msg1208712 date=1288534582]
Rafa brought in 59 Players: I can't see 40 of them being classed as 1st Teamers though?

7 were 'Free signings'
1 was on loan
2 were player exchanges
13 cost under 1 Million
8 cost between 1-2 Million
5 cost 2-5 Million
17 cost 5-10 Million
2 cost 10-15 Million
4 cost 15-20 Million
1 alone cost 20+ Torres
[/quote]

If they didn't have potential to play in the first team they shouldn't have been bought. 40 was a rough guess, so it appears he boght 59 players for the senior squad in 6 years. That is 10 players for the senior squad every year. Name a club that has moved more players than that.

I really don't know what your point is.
[/quote]

Well if you think 21 players all costing under 2 Million and 13 OF THEM costing between 150k to 700k were for the Senior Squad, you know fuck all about football.

Theres more to a Football Club than the Senior Squad?
 
Listen dude, this is getting rather tedious.

I have no more interest in debating this. I really have got no time for this.

You carry on.....ya YOU WIN.
 
So in conclusion:

Rafa wasted the opportunity to but some quality players and bought some mediocre ones
These mediocre signings were sold at a slight profit
Rafa then bought expensive players who then turned out to be average
no one should care as he got us success, but not the success we wanted
 
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