High line

[Stevesquash]

Whilst we are scrutinising every aspect of our play, to work out what's going wrong, why are we playing such a highline when it's causing us so much trouble?

Apart from the fact it's being exploited by the opposition and creating havoc in Our back line, it gives us less space further up the field to create.

Why are we persisting with this tactic? What's the benefit/perceived benefit?

 

[Farkmaster]

Whilst we are scrutinising every aspect of our play, to work out what's going wrong, why are we playing such a highline when it's causing us so much trouble?

Apart from the fact it's being exploited by the opposition and creating havoc in Our back line, it gives us less space further up the field to create.

Why are we persisting with this tactic? What's the benefit/perceived benefit?

I think it's because our entire system of play relies on it.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Yeah, why are we persisting with things that are clearly causing us so much trouble?

Madness that we aren't shaking things up after our current approach has proved to be such a disaster.

 

[tombrown]

Madness that we are persisting with things that won us 26 out of the first 27 matches in the season with the best defensive record and most clean sheets in the league, leaving us on the verge of winning the league for the first time in 30 years.

Utter fucking madness

 

[Mamma Mia]

Madness that we are persisting with things that won us 26 out of the first 27 matches in the season with the best defensive record and most clean sheets in the league, leaving us on the verge of winning the league for the first time in 30 years.

Utter fucking madness

I just don't get it. What is the benefit/perceived benefit?

 

[Stevesquash]

Thanks for the constructive comments guys.

We seem to be playing higher than previous, no? If it's such a stupid question why are we being torn apart? When as you rightly point out we were keeping clean sheet after clean sheet.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Thanks for the constructive comments guys.

We seem to be playing higher than previous, no? If it's such a stupid question why are we being torn apart?

I honestly don't understand, and it was easier to poke fun at your hyperbolic turn of phrase.

Are you suggesting that we've started playing a higher than usual line in the past few games?

 

[moron]

This High Line is definitely recent, during our winning run it was stated by someone or maybe a few that we have a High Line and are less defensive - I don't think that has been the case - much of our play has been based on:

1) Not keeping the current high line
2) Condensing the midfield and fighting for the ball
3) Taking advantage of spaces that open up for our full-backs, and front men.

I think the idea behind Klopp's winter break has been to turn our team more attacking for the rest of the season, and that is why the High Line is very much on view now, and is proving to be a gift for the opposition. Also what has changed is that the opposition have decided to get anything from us - there has to be a midfield battle and they will have to really fight for the ball, and right now - they are beating our players at doing that so the attacking intent we seem to want to implement is failing.

Now I could be completely wrong and it is a case of us having a high line like City do to overload the opposition because they are "parking the bus" BUT our passing and ball retention has been piss poor since the break, and Salah does not seem to take on his opposite number, and Mane is also not getting too involved in fights (although there was some effort yesterday night). There is also a case for us to maybe try something different like changing to a traditional 4-4-2 system with Salah and Firminio up front, sometimes it appears we are in a straight line against the opposition back-line and we cannot hold the ball up due to the opposition pressing.

Finally - if there is one ultimate truth about this season - it is that our players have been programmed to WIN and try and WIN every-game as a means to ensure that City don't gain an advantage. Perhaps against the likes of Watford where none of the players seemed up for it, it would have been better to have a defensive approach and not go all out against them, and wait for the transitional periods to break at pace when they cannot park the bus quick enough thus increasing our chances of scoring. Also we are so far away from being caught in the league that we can afford to draw games rather go all out and try and keep winning every game especially when up against determined opposition who are fighting for their survival to stay in the PL.

 

[Stevesquash]

I honestly don't understand, and it was easier to poke fun at your hyperbolic turn of phrase.

Are you suggesting that we've started playing a higher than usual line in the past few games?

Yes I think we are. Happy to stand corrected, but we are definitely getting caught 1 on 1 with the keeper regularly, and I don't remember it happening as much before.

 

[Mamma Mia]

Maybe you're right, but personally I'd put it down to a combination of fatigue, form, the fact that a run like we've had over the last 70+ games has to come to an end sometime, and maybe even a touch of complacency.

 

[mark1975]

Yes I think we are. Happy to stand corrected, but we are definitely getting caught 1 on 1 with the keeper regularly, and I don't remember it happening as much before.

Probably partly because we're not plugging the gaps as well as before. Our system has always been reliant on not so much a sitting midfielder, as one (or two) that cover across the midfield, pressing anything that threatens to progress into our half and covering Infront of the backline.

Fabinho sits so he can drop between the centre halves when needed, but he's not as agile as others, so it works best in tandem with Henderson, Gini and/or Milner, as those three will cover ground and hound the opposition more, while Fabs would mop up and generally read the game exceptionally well.

We've lost Milner for a while, we've lost Hendo, Gini is what he is but without the others he's not going to take control, while Fabs has obviously struggled after his injury.

Maybe this has forced a higher line/press because the midfield is lacking, I don't know.

 

[Frogfish]

Yes I think we are. Happy to stand corrected, but we are definitely getting caught 1 on 1 with the keeper regularly, and I don't remember it happening as much before.

Until I see Binny/Rurik stats I'm not convinced of any even higher line being played.

Although Id' say any downturn in form is likely due to other factors (such as already having the league wrapped up) than a high line.

 

[King Binny]

Home

Away

 

[hmmmmm1]

The high level works if everyone is in line. For the last few games this hasn’t been the case. Lazy defending

the high line works much better with var, as you you likely to get more decisions going your way, assuming everyone is in line.

 

[gene hughes]

I think that graph tells us everything we need to know. We’re playing more away than home matches and they’re on much smaller pitches.

 

[Modo]

Don't mean to sidetrack this thread but aren't you guys investing too much thought into all the tactical stuff?
From what I've seen in the three recent losses, the tactics weren't the problem. Our opponents just wanted it more. They ran more, they were tougher, they won the 2nd balls, they played with confidence basically.
We will lose against Bournemouth if Klopp can't get the lads "hungry" again. We just need to find the same grit our opponents have.

 

[Frogfish]

I think that graph tells us everything we need to know. We’re playing more away than home matches and they’re on much smaller pitches.

Hahaha!!!

 

[moron]

Don't mean to sidetrack this thread but aren't you guys investing too much thought into all the tactical stuff?
From what I've seen in the three recent losses, the tactics weren't the problem. Our opponents just wanted it more. They ran more, they were tougher, they won the 2nd balls, they played with confidence basically.
We will lose against Bournemouth if Klopp can't get the lads "hungry" again. We just need to find the same grit our opponents have.

You are partly right, but what is worrying was the inability to score against some of these teams - complete lack of creativity, and I actually think the tactical approach is new since we got back from the winter break and it is not working well.

 

[FoxForceFive]

There is not a new tactical approach at all.

I swear to fuck some people don't actually watch us.

When we play, our midfield does the job of 4, sometimes even 5, players, it does this by covering ground so effectively & managing intensive & rigorously practiced routines.

Remove Henderson from the equation, add in the fact his closest substitute player, in, Milner, being unavailable, & then factor in a massively out of form just returning Fabinho, & you have an entire side that is completely our of shape, with the centre backs forced to push high, not all the time, or more than usual, but at different times than usual, the forwards dropping back more than usual, & the full backs either unable to push on as much, or being massively exposed when they do as the cover they normally get from the midfield isn't there.

That's it. That's why VVD looks more exposed & has more to do, that's why passes are going astray when passing from the back, that's why the attack isn't as sharp, & that's why the full backs are less effective.

It's not simply a coincidence that our midfield has suffered these issues at the exact same time our form has dropped, & it isn't down to any new tactic.

Without trying to hammer this into place too much, we are a machine. Not some creative masterclass where players simply turn up & blow teams away (not that they don't have their own individual moments). We grind teams into the ground & 90% of what we do is pre drilled. I'd go as far as to say that the majority of our play is dependent on the midfield being exactly where they should be & pressing when & where they should. Changing that is like replacing the cogs in the middle of a machine with some that have different gaps between the the teeth, everything else just stops working effectively.

This shouldn't need to be explained, it's been evident in our play for two fucking years.

 

[Piedro]

/ END THREAD

 

[Mamma Mia]

Hmm, maybe @FoxForceFive is right, but also, we've been getting progressively worse since the moment Blackpool approached Nigel Critchley, and we haven't won a single game since he left.

This is Paco all over again, except we didn't even end up with a hill.

 

[mwake]

It's funny how Klopp has managed to fashion a midfield to be the least glamorous part a team, less glamorous than the defence even, but that is exactly what he wants! They are the engine/boiler/coal room of the team, it's all about blood, oil and sweat in that midfield and if we lose intensity and organisation in that midfield then everything else gets affected. However, I also agree that Klopp should have tweaked tactics a little to accommodate the loss of Henderson/Milner and form of fabinho and keita.