Max, is that you?
Hart on loan?
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Max, is that you?
Well, this is a Hart to Hart thread
Hart's reported this morning to have said he's willing to take a pay cut to join us (by contrast with the absence of any such statement in respect of joining the bitters).
I don't share what appears to be the general view on this. While I agree that Ming isn't our biggest concern, IMO it's clear that he's not going to get better than he is now in a Liverpool shirt, he's still saleable, Hart will have a major point or two to prove and he appears to want the move. Incidentally he and Milner are bezzies. I say go for it.
I don't share what appears to be the general view on this. While I agree that Ming isn't our biggest concern, IMO it's clear that he's not going to get better than he is now in a Liverpool shirt, he's still saleable, Hart will have a major point or two to prove and he appears to want the move. Incidentally he and Milner are bezzies. I say go for it.
Ming back to Sunderland and Hart in I reckon.... just heard Sunderland need a keeper.
I don't think he's stupid, but he does stupid things - don't we all - and he does them too often.
This is Capello talking about him five years ago:
"He has to understand when you play with your team you have to be focused every game. He has made mistakes, but he is young. It is important for England that he is able to remain focused in every moment of the game. It is difficult to play in a team that spends a lot of money and needs to win. You have to understand that when you play against other teams who are in the middle of the table or lower, this team will play against you and give 110% to beat you. For this reason he has to play every time at the top because he has to be focused only on the game."
He doesn't look to have improved in this sense to me. And he's not young any more. He's nearly 30, and keepers don't suddenly start improving their all round game at that stage in their careers.
And it's not just the David Jame-style lapses in concentration. It's also the out and out stupid decisions he makes. Take choosing to have a wall for that Bale free kick in the Euros. I can't imagine any other keeper of that age and status doing that. So you can say that managers and coaches should have improved him (like Mignolet, presumably?), but they can only do so much. If a keeper just fails to improve on his problem areas, it's down to him.
This is Capello talking about him five years ago:
"He has to understand when you play with your team you have to be focused every game. He has made mistakes, but he is young. It is important for England that he is able to remain focused in every moment of the game. It is difficult to play in a team that spends a lot of money and needs to win. You have to understand that when you play against other teams who are in the middle of the table or lower, this team will play against you and give 110% to beat you. For this reason he has to play every time at the top because he has to be focused only on the game."
He doesn't look to have improved in this sense to me. And he's not young any more. He's nearly 30, and keepers don't suddenly start improving their all round game at that stage in their careers.
And it's not just the David Jame-style lapses in concentration. It's also the out and out stupid decisions he makes. Take choosing to have a wall for that Bale free kick in the Euros. I can't imagine any other keeper of that age and status doing that. So you can say that managers and coaches should have improved him (like Mignolet, presumably?), but they can only do so much. If a keeper just fails to improve on his problem areas, it's down to him.
Wouldn't dispute any of that. However, in my judgment being discarded by Guardiola has given him two things he hasn't had before, namely (i) a massive jolt and (ii) not merely a professional but now also a very personal stake in working to improve. Of course it's true that he should have had that anyway, but he's hardly alone among pro footballers in needing a succession of boots up the fundament. When Karius is back he'll also provide competition of a standard which Hart has never really had before, not for his club (or arguably for England until recently). Last but not least, as I indicated above I have no belief left that Ming - an intelligent lad and a willing worker - has it in him to improve further even with the best of intentions.
I'd rather develop Karius in all honesty. He seems to have been forgotten despite looking good in pre season.
After spending 3 seasons at Mainz as their first choice GK he's ready for a step up.
"Three seasons as the O-Fives’ number one, Karius has been voted the second best goalkeeper in the league by his fellow Bundesliga peers.
German football magazine Kicker has conducted their annual end-of-season poll designed to ask 235 Bundesliga players to vote on the league’s best players.
Bayern Munich’s Manuel Neuer picked up 23.8% of the vote for best ‘keeper while Karius, who will complete his £4.7m move this week, came in second with 13.6%.
A fine compliment for the Germany Under-21 international considering the league boasts the likes of Bernd Leno, Ralf Fährmann, René Adler and Timo Horn."
The above tells me that I'd rather let this guy continue to develop for us instead of getting in Hart on big wages, a big fee and a very large question mark about how much he actually will improve us.
I don't think anyone's forgotten Karius TBH, but he's (a) still young and (b) injured. I'm happy we signed him but I would not be happy with making him our regular no.1 yet. As for the question whether Hart would improve us, at his best (and I admit he'd need to be) he's a clear improvement on Ming IMO.
Valid points mate, but he's back just after the international break if there arent any complications.
I'm not to concerned about his age. He's 23 and the likes of Hart/De Gea etc were starting goalkeepers for City/Utd at the age of 20/21.
If he's good enough he's old enough IMO.
It looked like in pre season that Klopp wanted him to be our starting goalkeeper when the season kicked off.
Hart is an upgrade on Ming, no question about it, but Karius will be that aswell and confirmed in pre season that his distribution was very good.
Which is Harts biggest issue and there are also a big question mark about how much he has regressed in the last few seasons.
Lol isn't that Hart to Hart?
I guess so. But let's not forget he's had enough jolts in the past - Mancini dropped him, Capello dropped him, and Pellegrini dropped him. And he came back without any real sign that he'd responded positively and thoughtfully. His default mode for responding to challenges to his technique is to return shouting louder and clenching his fist even harder.
We probably would have a strong bargaining position if we did want him, though. I can't see him learning another language, and of all players in a side you don't want a keeper who doesn't understand the others and can't communicate. So I find a loan move abroad doubtful. And of the top clubs, Chelski, the mancs, Arsenal, Spurs all have pretty decent keepers. We're the ones who might consider him. But he'd need us even more than we need him.
Pretty simple choice for me, who would you prefer to have as your two keepers Karius and Mignolet or Karius and Hart. So long as the fee is reasonable then it is the later pairing for me simply because it makes us stronger when our #1 keeper (whoever that may be) is out.
It Karius was signed with a view to being number one in the short-medium term; signing Hart would make little sense.
I don't really think the outlay - regardless of any talk of pay cuts, he's likely to still end up on higher wages than Mignolet - and the benefits of signing Hart truly outweigh the negatives of blocking Karius' development, Hart will only move for first team assurances.
Besides which, Hart is a bit of a plonker (to put it mildly). Let him stay on City's bench or go elsewhere, at least if he's second choice somewhere he'll have more time for washing his hair.
I don't really think the outlay - regardless of any talk of pay cuts, he's likely to still end up on higher wages than Mignolet - and the benefits of signing Hart truly outweigh the negatives of blocking Karius' development, Hart will only move for first team assurances.
Besides which, Hart is a bit of a plonker (to put it mildly). Let him stay on City's bench or go elsewhere, at least if he's second choice somewhere he'll have more time for washing his hair.
See where you're coming from, but I'm not at all sure we did sign Karius with a view to his becoming no.1 any time soon - and I hope we didn't, because I wouldn't be happy about that position going to a keeper (any keeper) in his early 20s. My bet is that the plan was to sign a very good young keeper whom we could groom to take the no.1 slot eventually, but who would be good enough in his own right to push the current incumbent meanwhile (the contract extension given to Mignolet would tend to back that up IMHO), and I don't reckon signing Hart now would interfere with such a plan.
You could well be right. We would have found out Klopp's intentions already had Karius not been injured, as it is we'll have to wait until he's fit. My guess is that Karius may well be the starting keeper sooner than we think .
As to a keeper's age, while there are some attributes that are either unique to or more important in that position (experience for one); the old adage "if you are good enough, your are old enough" still holds true. I doubt you would have been averse to Courtois or De Gea as first choice either now or when they made their respective debuts. That's not to say Karius is at their level, obviously.
You seem to have an issue with Karius being such a young keeper yet he is aged twenty three.
That is not some pimply teenager still wet between the years.
It might be different if he was just making the break through to top flight football but he was been a top rated goalkeeper in the bundesliga for the last three seasons and there is every chance that he is going to, or at least could, improve. I think it is less likely that Hart is going to improve going into his thirties.
For reference, Pepe Reina who in his first four seasons was the best keeper we have had since Ray Clemence in my opinion, was also twenty three when he arrived.
Clem was twenty two when he became the Lverpool number one.
If Karius is good enough he is old enough and there are plenty of examples to prove it
Truth bombs
We need to get a keeper and cement him in the squad for years. Our lack of consistency comes from a lack of certainty across our defense
Solid organization and consistent selections are what we need
Karius should have been bought to be number one now, and for years to come
Hart was a better goalkeeper at 23 than he is now.
Its not a position that requires years of experience these days
I like the look of Karius and am happy with the signing, but IMHO the Count's description overstates the case for him - last season he was voted joint third best keeper in the Bundesliga and I'm not aware that he topped the poll in previous seasons. Nor does this career history, decent though it certainly is, establish that we've got a budding Clem or even Pepe on our hands. We might have, and I take the point about age mattering less than it did, but I don't see that as reason enough not to play the percentages and go after a top experienced alternative who's become available. Incidentally I saw Clem play live two or three times in his early days and he was a long way from the finished article at that stage.
There seems to be an underlying suggestion in some of the posts above that we should keep Ming because it'll be easier for Karius to get past him in the pecking order when Karius is fit again. I don't agree with that line of reasoning. Ming's given it his best shot and IMHO has fallen short - not as far short as some would have you believe, and we have bigger holes to fill, but he's not going to get better. Hart on the other hand has now had a massive kick up the @rse and will be on a mission to prove Guardiola wrong. I know whom I'd rather see in our goal.
There seems to be an underlying suggestion in some of the posts above that we should keep Ming because it'll be easier for Karius to get past him in the pecking order when Karius is fit again. I don't agree with that line of reasoning. Ming's given it his best shot and IMHO has fallen short - not as far short as some would have you believe, and we have bigger holes to fill, but he's not going to get better. Hart on the other hand has now had a massive kick up the @rse and will be on a mission to prove Guardiola wrong. I know whom I'd rather see in our goal.
From the Echo;
Liverpool are not interested in signing unsettled Manchester City goalkeeper Joe Hart.
The Reds have repeatedly been linked with a move for the England shot-stopper since it emerged last week that he was free to leave the Etihad.
Hart, who has lost his place since the arrival of Pep Guardiola, is expected to secure a loan deal away from City over the coming days following their £15.4million signing of Claudio Bravo from Barcelona.
However, Anfield won’t be his destination as Jurgen Klopp isn’t looking for another keeper.
Liverpool bought Loris Karius from Mainz for £4.7million this summer to compete with Simon Mignolet for the No 1 spot.
Klopp also snapped up veteran Alex Manninger on a free transfer in order to provide further.
Karius has yet to feature due to the broken hand he suffered in pre-season but the Germany Under-21s international is making good progress.
He hopes to return to full training shortly after the international break and could be back in action before the end of September.
Mignolet has made a solid start to the season and Klopp believes Liverpool already boast sufficient quality in the keeping department for the campaign ahead.
Liverpool are not interested in signing unsettled Manchester City goalkeeper Joe Hart.
The Reds have repeatedly been linked with a move for the England shot-stopper since it emerged last week that he was free to leave the Etihad.
Hart, who has lost his place since the arrival of Pep Guardiola, is expected to secure a loan deal away from City over the coming days following their £15.4million signing of Claudio Bravo from Barcelona.
However, Anfield won’t be his destination as Jurgen Klopp isn’t looking for another keeper.
Liverpool bought Loris Karius from Mainz for £4.7million this summer to compete with Simon Mignolet for the No 1 spot.
Klopp also snapped up veteran Alex Manninger on a free transfer in order to provide further.
Karius has yet to feature due to the broken hand he suffered in pre-season but the Germany Under-21s international is making good progress.
He hopes to return to full training shortly after the international break and could be back in action before the end of September.
Mignolet has made a solid start to the season and Klopp believes Liverpool already boast sufficient quality in the keeping department for the campaign ahead.
Pfffffffffffffffffffttt. 😀
On loan or to buy ?
He's off to Torino on loan. No fee and City paying 90 grand a week still.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-hart-set-to-join-serie-a-side-torino-on-loa/
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...-hart-set-to-join-serie-a-side-torino-on-loa/
Yeah, 'about his level'
Thnak God the fucking genius Guardiola was there to rescue City from his shitty goalkeeping, before he could add any more accolades and trophies to go with his two league titles, FA Cup, two League cups, four Golden Glove awards, two appearances in the PFA team of the season and 60 odd England Caps.
Fucking state of this
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