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France V Rep of Ireland - part deux

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[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=37257.msg992856#msg992856 date=1258677012]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992808#msg992808 date=1258673513]
[quote author=H link=topic=37257.msg992802#msg992802 date=1258672498]
I like the Irish in General, just not the majority on here, or the IRA for that matter! I dont have a racist bone in me, BUT I hate anything even slightly PC & love to play devils advocate. I would be quite happy for my son to marry a 'Darkie' or my Daughter (not my son to marry my daughter.....), I've dated Sri Lankans and Indians in the past.

Amazing what a few posts can lead people to believe. Ho Hum.

P.S. I FUCKING LOVE HENRY 🙂
[/quote]

Can I have Moderator approval to reply to this the way I'd like to?
[/quote]

It'll be worth the one day ban.


[/quote]

One day? Ross might plump for a week.
 
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=37257.msg992856#msg992856 date=1258677012]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992808#msg992808 date=1258673513]
[quote author=H link=topic=37257.msg992802#msg992802 date=1258672498]
I like the Irish in General, just not the majority on here, or the IRA for that matter! I dont have a racist bone in me, BUT I hate anything even slightly PC & love to play devils advocate. I would be quite happy for my son to marry a 'Darkie' or my Daughter (not my son to marry my daughter.....), I've dated Sri Lankans and Indians in the past.

Amazing what a few posts can lead people to believe. Ho Hum.

P.S. I FUCKING LOVE HENRY 🙂
[/quote]

Can I have Moderator approval to reply to this the way I'd like to?
[/quote]

It'll be worth the one day ban.


[/quote]

Well, I rarely post here over the weekends, so I might as well just let it all out on Friday evening, then by the time I return on Monday - I won't have been affected, ban or not!

Great idea!
 
Thinking about it, I'm starting to get worried about Ross and his sky dive.

He's tandem diving, right? Well if it's a, let's say ample instructor, and Ross, do they need a special extreme xxxl chute?
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=37257.msg992868#msg992868 date=1258677693]
Premeditated abuse is worthy of a lengthy ban.
[/quote]

you're only taking his side cos you hate the IRA too though.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992872#msg992872 date=1258678108]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=37257.msg992868#msg992868 date=1258677693]
Premeditated abuse is worthy of a lengthy ban.
[/quote]

you're only taking his side cos you hate the IRA too though.
[/quote]

Without disputing that, I did pin my colours to the mast and say I hoped the ROI beat the French.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992860#msg992860 date=1258677170]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=37257.msg992856#msg992856 date=1258677012]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992808#msg992808 date=1258673513]
[quote author=H link=topic=37257.msg992802#msg992802 date=1258672498]
I like the Irish in General, just not the majority on here, or the IRA for that matter! I dont have a racist bone in me, BUT I hate anything even slightly PC & love to play devils advocate. I would be quite happy for my son to marry a 'Darkie' or my Daughter (not my son to marry my daughter.....), I've dated Sri Lankans and Indians in the past.

Amazing what a few posts can lead people to believe. Ho Hum.

P.S. I FUCKING LOVE HENRY 🙂
[/quote]

Can I have Moderator approval to reply to this the way I'd like to?
[/quote]

It'll be worth the one day ban.


[/quote]

Well, I rarely post here over the weekends, so I might as well just let it all out on Friday evening, then by the time I return on Monday - I won't have been affected, ban or not!

Great idea!
[/quote]

It's like the time Beckham went out of his way to pick up a yellow card cause he knew he would serve his ban during the Azerbaijan game.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=37257.msg992874#msg992874 date=1258679151]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992860#msg992860 date=1258677170]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=37257.msg992856#msg992856 date=1258677012]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992808#msg992808 date=1258673513]
[quote author=H link=topic=37257.msg992802#msg992802 date=1258672498]
I like the Irish in General, just not the majority on here, or the IRA for that matter! I dont have a racist bone in me, BUT I hate anything even slightly PC & love to play devils advocate. I would be quite happy for my son to marry a 'Darkie' or my Daughter (not my son to marry my daughter.....), I've dated Sri Lankans and Indians in the past.

Amazing what a few posts can lead people to believe. Ho Hum.

P.S. I FUCKING LOVE HENRY 🙂
[/quote]

Can I have Moderator approval to reply to this the way I'd like to?
[/quote]

It'll be worth the one day ban.


[/quote]

Well, I rarely post here over the weekends, so I might as well just let it all out on Friday evening, then by the time I return on Monday - I won't have been affected, ban or not!

Great idea!
[/quote]

It's like the time Beckham went out of his way to pick up a yellow card cause he knew he would serve his ban during the Azerbaijan game.


[/quote]

I'd say Becks uses StyleForum too.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992875#msg992875 date=1258679237]
[quote author=ILD link=topic=37257.msg992874#msg992874 date=1258679151]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992860#msg992860 date=1258677170]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=37257.msg992856#msg992856 date=1258677012]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992808#msg992808 date=1258673513]
[quote author=H link=topic=37257.msg992802#msg992802 date=1258672498]
I like the Irish in General, just not the majority on here, or the IRA for that matter! I dont have a racist bone in me, BUT I hate anything even slightly PC & love to play devils advocate. I would be quite happy for my son to marry a 'Darkie' or my Daughter (not my son to marry my daughter.....), I've dated Sri Lankans and Indians in the past.

Amazing what a few posts can lead people to believe. Ho Hum.

P.S. I FUCKING LOVE HENRY 🙂
[/quote]

Can I have Moderator approval to reply to this the way I'd like to?
[/quote]

It'll be worth the one day ban.


[/quote]

Well, I rarely post here over the weekends, so I might as well just let it all out on Friday evening, then by the time I return on Monday - I won't have been affected, ban or not!

Great idea!
[/quote]

It's like the time Beckham went out of his way to pick up a yellow card cause he knew he would serve his ban during the Azerbaijan game.


[/quote]

I'd say Becks uses StyleForum too.
[/quote]

He's probably a mod there.
 
[quote author=ILD link=topic=37257.msg992874#msg992874 date=1258679151]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992860#msg992860 date=1258677170]
[quote author=livvy185 link=topic=37257.msg992856#msg992856 date=1258677012]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992808#msg992808 date=1258673513]
[quote author=H link=topic=37257.msg992802#msg992802 date=1258672498]
I like the Irish in General, just not the majority on here, or the IRA for that matter! I dont have a racist bone in me, BUT I hate anything even slightly PC & love to play devils advocate. I would be quite happy for my son to marry a 'Darkie' or my Daughter (not my son to marry my daughter.....), I've dated Sri Lankans and Indians in the past.

Amazing what a few posts can lead people to believe. Ho Hum.

P.S. I FUCKING LOVE HENRY 🙂
[/quote]

Can I have Moderator approval to reply to this the way I'd like to?
[/quote]

It'll be worth the one day ban.


[/quote]

Well, I rarely post here over the weekends, so I might as well just let it all out on Friday evening, then by the time I return on Monday - I won't have been affected, ban or not!

Great idea!
[/quote]

It's like the time Beckham went out of his way to pick up a yellow card cause he knew he would serve his ban during the Azerbaijan game.


[/quote]

Thats strange. Becks has come out and said that Henry didnt cheat. I suppose he has a different explanation for the word "cheat" than most of us
 
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=37257.msg992873#msg992873 date=1258678212]
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=37257.msg992872#msg992872 date=1258678108]
[quote author=doctor_mac link=topic=37257.msg992868#msg992868 date=1258677693]
Premeditated abuse is worthy of a lengthy ban.
[/quote]

you're only taking his side cos you hate the IRA too though.
[/quote]

Without disputing that, I did pin my colours to the mast and say I hoped the ROI beat the French.
[/quote]

And the sentiment was well appreciated Doc, at least in certain quarters anyhow.
 
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg993003#msg993003 date=1258712544]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg993000#msg993000 date=1258712306]
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg992990#msg992990 date=1258712018]
http://www.jeu-de-main.com/
[/quote]

Ouch !

34-1.
[/quote]

a miserable 56-1 for me
[/quote]

*fights the urge to get sucked in*
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg992995#msg992995 date=1258712175]
FIFA have just ruled that the game will NOT be replayed.
[/quote]

well, THERE'S a surprise :🙂
 
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg993005#msg993005 date=1258712728]
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg993003#msg993003 date=1258712544]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg993000#msg993000 date=1258712306]
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg992990#msg992990 date=1258712018]
http://www.jeu-de-main.com/
[/quote]

Ouch !

34-1.
[/quote]

a miserable 56-1 for me
[/quote]

*fights the urge to get sucked in*
[/quote]

Dont bother youll never beat my record (sucked in yet?)
 
Roy Keane is more pissed off that the Irish defence didn't clear the ball/let Henry in behind than the handball.

He's also just slagged off John Delainey and questioned his "honesty and integrity" - "What goes around, comes around".

He wouldn't call Henry a cheat.

You've GOT to see it !
 
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg993019#msg993019 date=1258713239]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg993005#msg993005 date=1258712728]
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg993003#msg993003 date=1258712544]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg993000#msg993000 date=1258712306]
[quote author=Vanbasten84 link=topic=37257.msg992990#msg992990 date=1258712018]
http://www.jeu-de-main.com/
[/quote]

Ouch !

34-1.
[/quote]

a miserable 56-1 for me
[/quote]

*fights the urge to get sucked in*
[/quote]

Dont bother youll never beat my record (sucked in yet?)
[/quote]

Nope.
 
I don't think the game should be replayed.. over 180 minutes, you can't replay the game on 1 incident.. but in a clear case of cheating like this.. one of two things NEEDS to happen to protect the integrity of the game:

1) Prospective action - Video technology should be be brought in, to stop cheating like this in the future.

OR

2) Retrospective action - Henry should be banned for the next 5-10 international competitive matches. He clearly cheated, made a sacrifice for his country (in that his reputation has been tarnished) but should be suspended for the World Cup. If FIFA are so against video technology, why don't they just punish players who clearly cheat retrospectively with heavy bans. Then, if a player like Henry wishes to sacrifice himself for his team/country for the next 5-10 games by cheating, good luck to him.
 
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37257.msg993036#msg993036 date=1258714262]
I don't think the game should be replayed.. over 180 minutes, you can't replay the game on 1 incident.. but in a clear case of cheating like this.. one of two things NEEDS to happen to protect the integrity of the game:

1) Retrospective action - Henry should be banned for the next 5-10 international competitive matches. He clearly cheated, made a sacrifice for his country (in that his reputation has been tarnished) but should be suspended for the World Cup.

2) Prospective action - Video technology should be be brought in, to stop cheating like this in the future.
[/quote]

A 5-10 match ban! That would be ridiculous. It was a handball - at worst a red-card offence, more likely a yellow. The only reason it's caused such a fuss is the circumstances and the fact that the referee missed it. Why should the player be blamed for that? Even one of the Irish players (Doyle, I think) admitted they would have done exactly the same in that situation. It's just instinct. Morally, he should have admitted it afterwards - but, again, most players wouldn't.

It would make much more sense to replay the game, but clearly it's not going to happen. Scapegoating Henry, however, is not the solution.
 
I think it is true to say that the handball, wasn't in itself, a major transgression of the rules. It has just been magnified out of all proportion because of the consequences.
Robbie Keane deliberately handled the ball on a number of occasions during the match.
Are we to take it that he is less of a cheat than Thierry Henry purely because his actions were penalised and therefore didn't accrue any advantage for his team?

As for John Delaney (FAI President) and all the politicians calling for a replay/whatever, for once, painful though it is I am in agreement with Roy Keane, they are a bunch of bandjumping media whores toying with the emotions of Irish football fans and playing the populist card.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37257.msg993047#msg993047 date=1258714589]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37257.msg993036#msg993036 date=1258714262]
I don't think the game should be replayed.. over 180 minutes, you can't replay the game on 1 incident.. but in a clear case of cheating like this.. one of two things NEEDS to happen to protect the integrity of the game:

1) Retrospective action - Henry should be banned for the next 5-10 international competitive matches. He clearly cheated, made a sacrifice for his country (in that his reputation has been tarnished) but should be suspended for the World Cup.

2) Prospective action - Video technology should be be brought in, to stop cheating like this in the future.
[/quote]

A 5-10 match ban! That would be ridiculous. It was a handball - at worst a red-card offence, more likely a yellow. The only reason it's caused such a fuss is the circumstances and the fact that the referee missed it. Why should the player be blamed for that? Even one of the Irish players (Doyle, I think) admitted they would have done exactly the same in that situation. It's just instinct. Morally, he should have admitted it afterwards - but, again, most players wouldn't.

It would make much more sense to replay the game, but clearly it's not going to happen. Scapegoating Henry, however, is not the solution.

[/quote]

I'm not scapegoating Henry. I'd say the same for any player. Considering the circumstances, and the importance/timing of the goal, I think the punishment is appropriate (a ban, that is perhaps not length). Henry clearly cheated to get his country to the World Cup.
In a way, I think it was actually a selfless act of cheating in that he sacrificed his reputation for his country. But equally, he cheated a whole nation out of seeing their side possibly getting to the World Cup. For that, I think he should be forced to sit on the sidelines and watch the World Cup much like the Irish players. 5-10 games is extreme. Basically, however long France are in the World Cup.

I think there should be a panel that decide these things. The punishment should fit the crime (or damage it has caused to the integrity/result of the game). If Henry knew he'd be punished retrospectively if his cheating affected the end result of the game, I dare say he would have gone up to the referee and admitted his guilt. Instead, it's all too easy just to say "well, I'm not the referee". That's just passing off the blame for your own actions to someone else. The ref needs to be helped by the players, in that, they should be looking to play the game fairly and not looking to con him whenever they see a chance. A referee, is just that, a referee. He's not supposed to be a detective or police man. The players have a responsibility to play fairly and uphold the integrity of the game just as much as the officials do.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37257.msg993047#msg993047 date=1258714589]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37257.msg993036#msg993036 date=1258714262]
I don't think the game should be replayed.. over 180 minutes, you can't replay the game on 1 incident.. but in a clear case of cheating like this.. one of two things NEEDS to happen to protect the integrity of the game:

1) Retrospective action - Henry should be banned for the next 5-10 international competitive matches. He clearly cheated, made a sacrifice for his country (in that his reputation has been tarnished) but should be suspended for the World Cup.

2) Prospective action - Video technology should be be brought in, to stop cheating like this in the future.
[/quote]

A 5-10 match ban! That would be ridiculous. It was a handball - at worst a red-card offence, more likely a yellow. The only reason it's caused such a fuss is the circumstances and the fact that the referee missed it. Why should the player be blamed for that? Even one of the Irish players (Doyle, I think) admitted they would have done exactly the same in that situation. It's just instinct. Morally, he should have admitted it afterwards - but, again, most players wouldn't.

It would make much more sense to replay the game, but clearly it's not going to happen. Scapegoating Henry, however, is not the solution.

[/quote]

I think the only reason it caused such a fuss is the fact that it eliminated Ireland for the world cup finals and allowed France to go.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37257.msg993086#msg993086 date=1258716718]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37257.msg993047#msg993047 date=1258714589]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37257.msg993036#msg993036 date=1258714262]
I don't think the game should be replayed.. over 180 minutes, you can't replay the game on 1 incident.. but in a clear case of cheating like this.. one of two things NEEDS to happen to protect the integrity of the game:

1) Retrospective action - Henry should be banned for the next 5-10 international competitive matches. He clearly cheated, made a sacrifice for his country (in that his reputation has been tarnished) but should be suspended for the World Cup.

2) Prospective action - Video technology should be be brought in, to stop cheating like this in the future.
[/quote]

A 5-10 match ban! That would be ridiculous. It was a handball - at worst a red-card offence, more likely a yellow. The only reason it's caused such a fuss is the circumstances and the fact that the referee missed it. Why should the player be blamed for that? Even one of the Irish players (Doyle, I think) admitted they would have done exactly the same in that situation. It's just instinct. Morally, he should have admitted it afterwards - but, again, most players wouldn't.

It would make much more sense to replay the game, but clearly it's not going to happen. Scapegoating Henry, however, is not the solution.

[/quote]

I think the only reason it caused such a fuss is the fact that it eliminated Ireland for the world cup finals and allowed France to go.
[/quote]

Don't get me wrong.

When I say what I think *should* happen to Henry, I mean what should have happened to Thierry if Fifa had their house in order. These rules should have been in place 10 years ago, and to make an example of just him would be scapegoating. Obviously nothing can happen to Henry now, but if Fifa were really concerned about fairplay and the integrity of the game they would put such rules in place just before the start of next season or the World cup.. and start punishing players from then onwards.
 
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=37257.msg993086#msg993086 date=1258716718]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37257.msg993047#msg993047 date=1258714589]
[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=37257.msg993036#msg993036 date=1258714262]
I don't think the game should be replayed.. over 180 minutes, you can't replay the game on 1 incident.. but in a clear case of cheating like this.. one of two things NEEDS to happen to protect the integrity of the game:

1) Retrospective action - Henry should be banned for the next 5-10 international competitive matches. He clearly cheated, made a sacrifice for his country (in that his reputation has been tarnished) but should be suspended for the World Cup.

2) Prospective action - Video technology should be be brought in, to stop cheating like this in the future.
[/quote]

A 5-10 match ban! That would be ridiculous. It was a handball - at worst a red-card offence, more likely a yellow. The only reason it's caused such a fuss is the circumstances and the fact that the referee missed it. Why should the player be blamed for that? Even one of the Irish players (Doyle, I think) admitted they would have done exactly the same in that situation. It's just instinct. Morally, he should have admitted it afterwards - but, again, most players wouldn't.

It would make much more sense to replay the game, but clearly it's not going to happen. Scapegoating Henry, however, is not the solution.

[/quote]

I think the only reason it caused such a fuss is the fact that it eliminated Ireland for the world cup finals and allowed France to go.
[/quote]

Which is precisely what I meant by 'the circumstances'.

Ibro, you can't give players different-length bans etc based on the consequences of their actions. If Ireland had equalised and gone through on penalties, that wouldn't lessen Henry's 'crime' in handling the ball. Equally, the fact that it led to a goal which eliminated Ireland from the WC is not directly the player's fault.

What if his goal had led to riots in the Irish section of the stand, during which someone was killed? Would Henry be charged with accessory to murder?
 
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