France V Rep of Ireland - part deux

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=37257.msg994008#msg994008 date=1258758771]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg993985#msg993985 date=1258758046]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg993969#msg993969 date=1258757684]

...why is the uproar predominantly at Henry?

[/quote]

Ali, if your car is stolen tonight, will you absolve the thief of the blame and curse the police who didn't catch him in the act?
[/quote]

What a shit analogy.

[/quote]

Why?

People are saying the the blame lies with the referee or the linesman... It fucking doesn't, though he certainly should have seen both offenses. The blame lies with the fucking cheater who fucking cheated.

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg994015#msg994015 date=1258758949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg993985#msg993985 date=1258758046]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg993969#msg993969 date=1258757684]

...why is the uproar predominantly at Henry?

[/quote]

Ali, if your car is stolen tonight, will you absolve the thief of the blame and curse the police who didn't catch him in the act?
[/quote]

1) I didn't absolve the thief, I said "people should be disgusted with him"

But, to use your (shit) analogy, if I lived in an area that had car after car after car after car after fucking car stolen, by a succession of different thieves, and every time each incident occured the response was to say "I can't believe people nowadays thieving from their fellow man, how will our society survive" I'd be furious. If the response was simply to try to punish that particular thief, I'd be furious. I'd want authorities to try and actually provide easily available resources to stop a predictable immoral behavior by monitoring the area!
[/quote]

Jesus, and MY effort was shit..?

So, becuase he's not the only thief, his crime is somehow lessened, that doesn't warrant outrage, and somehow he's not as much to blame as others "in society"?

And if the police said to you "Sorry mate, happens all the time so we're not going to bother to do anything about it", you'd be ok with that?

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37257.msg994075#msg994075 date=1258762439]
Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, Sean.

Arguing some of the sentiments being expressed in the aftermath...

 

[Sheik Yerbouti]

*Looks round*

He's in Orlando mate.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994077#msg994077 date=1258762595]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg994015#msg994015 date=1258758949]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg993985#msg993985 date=1258758046]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg993969#msg993969 date=1258757684]

...why is the uproar predominantly at Henry?

[/quote]

Ali, if your car is stolen tonight, will you absolve the thief of the blame and curse the police who didn't catch him in the act?
[/quote]

1) I didn't absolve the thief, I said "people should be disgusted with him"

But, to use your (shit) analogy, if I lived in an area that had car after car after car after car after fucking car stolen, by a succession of different thieves, and every time each incident occured the response was to say "I can't believe people nowadays thieving from their fellow man, how will our society survive" I'd be furious. If the response was simply to try to punish that particular thief, I'd be furious. I'd want authorities to try and actually provide easily available resources to stop a predictable immoral behavior by monitoring the area!
[/quote]

Jesus, and MY effort was shit..?

So, becuase he's not the only thief, his crime is somehow lessened, that doesn't warrant outrage, and somehow he's not as much to blame as others "in society"?

And if the police said to you "Sorry mate, happens all the time so we're not going to bother to do anything about it", you'd be ok with that?
[/quote]

You aren't reading my posts very carefully. I'll try one more time.

Again, I didn't say his crime is lessened, but Henry's act isn't new, or unique, cheating is now endemic in football. In my expansion of your analogy, regardless of the punishment to the thief, I'm not assured that when I park my new car, it's not going to get stolen as well.

Again, I didn't say I'd be ok with the police doing nothing. Fine, punish the offender, he deserves it, but given that it's persistent and predictable behavior, done by a whole host of players, affecting game after game after game, I also want them to use ways of stopping the entirely predictable behavior which have been available for years now.

 

[Whaddapie]

Read them just fine, thank you.

I know what you're saying, and though I agree that football should be doing more to eliminate all cheating, the fact that they're not, and that cheating happens doesn't somehow make anybody but Henry 100% responsible for HIS cheating. He didn't have to grab that ball with his hand, just because Rivaldo feined a headshot 8 years ago or because Ronaldo and Drogba are dispicable cheats.

The choice was his, the action was his and the blame is his. That's my argument.

The fact that it happens more than it should and no action similar to that for which the Irish called for has happend before (even though there IS precedent) doesn't mean that it should be acceptable. SOMETHING has to be the catalist that effects positive change - Why not this?

The linesman shouldn't have missed it. But that doesn't make it his fault. He's not to blame.

 

[Farkmaster]

Henry is to blame, the linesman fucked up, but the fact that the linesman will miss decisions is predictable and unavoidable, and the fact that there are people like Henry who will cheat given reffing which cannot possibly monitor their behavior is also unavoidable. The various cheaters of every stripe get rewarded for cheating more than they get hurt.

This is all unavoidable because the current reffing system is broken.

You can be angry at whoever you want, but if you want public anger to be productive, it should be directed at the system that is broken, because rest assured there are more cheaters, there are more linesmen/refs that can't possibly see everything, and this will come up again and again and again.

Yes it's true, if everyone who was cheating decided not to, this wouldn't be in issue. That's a simple, stupid thing to think about as far as I'm concerned, because it just isn't going to happen.

 

[themn]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994079#msg994079 date=1258762648]
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37257.msg994075#msg994075 date=1258762439]
Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, Sean.

Arguing some of the sentiments being expressed in the aftermath...
[/quote]

That's not his name, that's not his name etc....

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg994145#msg994145 date=1258765331]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994079#msg994079 date=1258762648]
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37257.msg994075#msg994075 date=1258762439]
Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, Liam.

Arguing some of the sentiments being expressed in the aftermath...
[/quote]

That's not his name, that's not his name etc....
[/quote]

Oh yes it is..

 

[themn]

[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg994145#msg994145 date=1258765331]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994079#msg994079 date=1258762648]
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37257.msg994075#msg994075 date=1258762439]
Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, Sean.

Arguing some of the sentiments being expressed in the aftermath...
[/quote]

That's not his name, that's not his name etc....
[/quote]

Oh no it isn't...

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg994142#msg994142 date=1258765167]

... but if you want public anger to be productive, it should be directed at the system that is broken, because rest assured there are more cheaters, there are more linesmen/refs that can't possibly see everything, and this will come up again and again and again.

Yes it's true, if everyone who was cheating decided not to, this wouldn't be in issue. That's a simple, stupid thing to think about as far as I'm concerned, because it just isn't going to happen.

[/quote]

1. I'm angry at both the cheater (primarily) and the system that allows / ignores it. But regardless that the system "allows" it to continue, the blame still lies squarely at the feet of the cnuts who decide to cheat.

2. It's not stupid to think about, Ali. The fact that it'll probably never happen doesn't mean that it shouldn't be the standard we aim for... I will never accept cheating quietly just because "that's life". We were never going to get Cohen off the air either, remember..? But because you and some others didn't adopt this same "F#$! it, it happens, whatcha gonna do?" attitude, changes DID occur.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg994162#msg994162 date=1258766822]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg994145#msg994145 date=1258765331]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994079#msg994079 date=1258762648]
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37257.msg994075#msg994075 date=1258762439]
Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, Sean.

Arguing some of the sentiments being expressed in the aftermath...
[/quote]

That's not his name, that's not his name etc....
[/quote]

Oh no it isn't...
[/quote]

It is on my response to you. 😉

 

[themn]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994165#msg994165 date=1258766902]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg994162#msg994162 date=1258766822]
[quote author=themn link=topic=37257.msg994145#msg994145 date=1258765331]
[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994079#msg994079 date=1258762648]
[quote author=Sheik (Loki) Yerbouti link=topic=37257.msg994075#msg994075 date=1258762439]
Yer got beat Derek. Stop fookin' moaning.
[/quote]

Not arguing that, Sean.

Arguing some of the sentiments being expressed in the aftermath...
[/quote]

That's not his name, that's not his name etc....
[/quote]

Oh no it isn't...
[/quote]

It is on my response to you. 😉
[/quote]

I know.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg994164#msg994164 date=1258766872]
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37257.msg994142#msg994142 date=1258765167]

... but if you want public anger to be productive, it should be directed at the system that is broken, because rest assured there are more cheaters, there are more linesmen/refs that can't possibly see everything, and this will come up again and again and again.

Yes it's true, if everyone who was cheating decided not to, this wouldn't be in issue. That's a simple, stupid thing to think about as far as I'm concerned, because it just isn't going to happen.

[/quote]

1. I'm angry at both the cheater (primarily) and the system that allows / ignores it. But regardless that the system "allows" it to continue, the blame still lies squarely at the feet of the cnuts who decide to cheat.

2. It's not stupid to think about, Ali. The fact that it'll probably never happen doesn't mean that it shouldn't be the standard we aim for... I will never accept cheating quietly just because "that's life". We were never going to get Cohen off the air either, remember..? But because you and some others didn't adopt this same "F#$! it, it happens, whatcha gonna do?" attitude, changes DID occur.
[/quote]

I'm not encouraging apathy, precisely the opposite. Note that we did NOT change Cohen's behavior but the result was as we wanted it. I feel the same result is the only possible one in terms of cheaters in football. The fact is that the system we have now encourages people to cheat, and more and more people do so, and it's the only part of the equation that can be remedied.

To put a critical theory hat on, there will still be cheaters out there after video evidence makes punishing them easier, and cheating less productive. Even if a system was put in place where cheating was impossible, it wouldn't remove a type of person called a cheater, they just wouldn't be able to express that less than admirable trait.

 

[Irish_Red]

When was the last time Dublin won the All Ireland Whaddapie ?

the last time they won it was on a bad referee decision.

Shit happens in sport get over it.

 

[the count]

I was asked quite the question last night.
If I had to choose one of the following what would it be............

-England to win the World Cup or
-Dublin to win the All Ireland

Surprisingly it didn't take as long as I though it might to convince myself of the answer.
Gooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnn England 😉

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=37257.msg995154#msg995154 date=1258846355]
When was the last time Dublin won the All Ireland Whaddapie ?

the last time they won it was on a bad referee decision.

Shit happens in sport get over it.
[/quote]

Wow - Does that make it right, mate? Did you go to bed on Wednesday night thinking "well, this'll show that f#$!ing Charlie Redmond!"?

I'll never change my feelings about such things, pal. Wrong is wrong, and it shouldn't be acceptable, just 'cos "it happens".

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=the count link=topic=37257.msg995296#msg995296 date=1258887794]
I was asked quite the question last night.
If I had to choose one of the following what would it be............

-England to win the World Cup or
-Dublin to win the All Ireland

Surprisingly it didn't take as long as I though it might to convince myself of the answer.
Gooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnn England 😉
[/quote]

Fine by me, mate. I actually have more time for many of our English brethern than some of my fellow Paddies for that same reason.

 

[Fallon]

This is a very provocative and interesting thread, I dread to think how many pages a thread would reach if the frogs go on to win the world cup (not bloody likely but a curious possibility).

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=Fallon link=topic=37257.msg995705#msg995705 date=1258916610]
This is a very provocative and interesting thread, I dread to think how many pages a thread would reach if the frogs go on to win the world cup (not bloody likely but a curious possibility).
[/quote]

I'll be sure to give it a bump if and when.

*starts taking voodoo pins out of Henry doll*

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=37257.msg995668#msg995668 date=1258914308]
[quote author=Irish_Red link=topic=37257.msg995154#msg995154 date=1258846355]
When was the last time Dublin won the All Ireland Whaddapie ?

the last time they won it was on a bad referee decision.

Shit happens in sport get over it.
[/quote]

Wow - Does that make it right, mate? Did you go to bed on Wednesday night thinking "well, this'll show that f#$!ing Charlie Redmond!"?

[/quote]

Go on Neil Collins!