Coutinho: style over substance

[HC]

What is extreme about my post?

He scored 5 goals and made 5 goals.

He's apparently our best player and thats the return? I really like the guy but if he's our saviour, then I think we'll struggle again next season.

I don't doubt he has the ability to potentially kick on and become top class but yeah, he's just not at the moment for me

 

[HC]

What is extreme about my post?

He scored 5 goals and made 5 goals.

He's apparently our best player and thats the return? I really like the guy but if he's our saviour, then I think we'll struggle again next season.

I don't doubt he has the ability to potentially kick on and become top class but yeah, he's just not at the moment for me

 

[keniget]

What is extreme about my post?

He scored 5 goals and made 5 goals.

He's apparently our best player and thats the return? I really like the guy but if he's our saviour, then I think we'll struggle again next season.

I don't doubt he has the ability to potentially kick on and become top class but yeah, he's just not at the moment for me

Have a look at Silva's and Iniesta's stats in certain seasons. Nothing to write home about either but they're not judged in the same way as a Hazard or a Robben.

 

[HC]

I agree Keni..

Hes young and class and hopefully will get better but I still feel he's being spoke about as if he's there already.

 

[Oncy]

Weve got loads of shit players. Why start a thread on the best one we have like this?

 

[ILD]

What is extreme about my post?

He scored 5 goals and made 5 goals.

He's apparently our best player and thats the return? I really like the guy but if he's our saviour, then I think we'll struggle again next season.

I don't doubt he has the ability to potentially kick on and become top class but yeah, he's just not at the moment for me

This is the OTT part of your post in my opinion man,

"surely he's replaceable and upgradeable if he does leave In the next few years
Does he flatter to deceive?"

We'd be doing well to upgrade on a player of Coutinho's ability.

 

[dantes]

He's a genius, and will figure out how to humiliate defenders before long.

That's the thing. Other young players have to figure out how to improve their own game. Geniuses like Coutinho just need to figure out how to exploit the inferior players around them. Its a matter of time before those sorts of players are the best in the world.

 

[Tinto]

What is extreme about my post?

He scored 5 goals and made 5 goals.

He's apparently our best player and thats the return? I really like the guy but if he's our saviour, then I think we'll struggle again next season.

I don't doubt he has the ability to potentially kick on and become top class but yeah, he's just not at the moment for me

Who is top class in your opinion? If you say Messi, Ronaldo and Suarez then that's fine. Coutinhno isn't in that class.

But if you say the players I listed in my previous post, then you're wrong. Coutinhno is as good as those.

 

[mark1975]

I think for his kind of player, people read too much into the stats, have a look at David Silva's by comparison or at a similar age. It's what they bring to the team in terms of opening sides up. Should he contribute more directly, in terms of goals and assits? Yeah course he should, I've no doubt as he progresses and inevitably gets surrounded by better players (here or elsewhere), he'll flourish. He's the best player we've got, whether that's an indictment of where we're at, he'd still have an array of TOP clubs asking for him, should he become available or start showing signs of unrest.

In 72 starts in the league he has 13 goals and 17 assists, most of last season was spent stuck behind a frontline that's consisted of either static forwards or a winger our of position. That's a pretty good return for his age.

 

[keniget]

I agree Keni..

Hes young and class and hopefully will get better but I still feel he's being spoke about as if he's there already.

I think he's already a very good player and if he never improves beyond his current level he'll still be an asset. But no he's not reached "elite" level yet.

 

[Ryan]

"Attacking midfielder" covers a range of different players with different skill sets and roles within their teams.

What?

His output isn't as productive as Dirk Kuyt. What part of that is hard to get?

 

[Ryan]

This forum has a habit of using player x as some sort of dig at a poster when player y is being discussed. Why bring up Allen (a different player to Coutinho) as a dig to Ryan because he made a comment about being seduced by style over substance? Look at all the compliments to Coutinho in his original post. It's not as if he doesn't rate Coutinho.



I love watching Coutinho but I do see where Ryan is coming from. Often we are seduced by style over substance. Coutinho wows us with his amazing deft touches and dribbles but we should all be hoping he takes his game to next level next season. That is taking nothing away from his current talent.

Thanks Dave.

 

[keniget]

His output isn't as productive as Dirk Kuyt. What part of that is hard to get?

I'm surprised that you'd bring Dirk Kuyt up in reference to Coutinho.

Also, as said throughout thread, contribution to the team can't be measured purely by goals and assists..

Perhaps Kuyt does make an interesting reference point in that it could be argued that his "output" overall painted him in a better light than his performances whereas with Coutinho it can be the other way round.

 

[Ryan]

I'm surprised that you'd bring Dirk Kuyt up in reference to Coutinho.

Also, as said throughout thread, contribution to the team can't be measured purely by goals and assists..

Perhaps Kuyt does make an interesting reference point in that it could be argued that his "output" overall painted him in a better light than his performances whereas with Coutinho it can be the other way round.

Yeah fair point too.

 

[Ryan]

I think for his kind of player, people read too much into the stats, have a look at David Silva's by comparison or at a similar age. It's what they bring to the team in terms of opening sides up. Should he contribute more directly, in terms of goals and assits? Yeah course he should, I've no doubt as he progresses and inevitably gets surrounded by better players (here or elsewhere), he'll flourish. He's the best player we've got, whether that's an indictment of where we're at, he'd still have an array of TOP clubs asking for him, should he become available or start showing signs of unrest.

In 72 starts in the league he has 13 goals and 17 assists, most of last season was spent stuck behind a frontline that's consisted of either static forwards or a winger our of position. That's a pretty good return for his age.

Entirely agree with your last point there. And it very much applies to Sterling and Lallana too.

How much better would say Lallana have looked had he played in the same side as Suarez and Sturridge the year before?

 

[juniormember]

What is extreme about my post?

He scored 5 goals and made 5 goals.

He's apparently our best player and thats the return? I really like the guy but if he's our saviour, then I think we'll struggle again next season.

I don't doubt he has the ability to potentially kick on and become top class but yeah, he's just not at the moment for me

Considering how absolutely shite we were last season..
He's scored 10% of our total goals tally and made 10% of all goals.
It's the rest of the team that should be sorting themselves out, while Coutinho continues his steady improvement.

When he had Sterling, Sturridge and Suarez ahead of him, he created a shitload of chances with those through balls (whether they became assists or just chance created isn't his problem) while last season he didn't have anyone making those runs for him. His shooting's improving. And don't forget he also played quite a few games deeper than an 'attacking midfielder' last season.

 

[Dreambeliever]

He is superb.

Could watch him all day.

If we had three of him we would rip teams apart.

One of the few bright spots watching us these days

 

[Dreambeliever]

Entirely agree with your last point there. And it very much applies to Sterling and Lallana too.

How much better would say Lallana have looked had he played in the same side as Suarez and Sturridge the year before?

He wouldn't have worked, he takes too many touches and slows the play down, last season was all about lightening quick attacks.

 

[Ryan]

He wouldn't have worked, he takes too many touches and slows the play down, last season was all about lightening quick attacks.

And why do you think he takes so many touches? BECAUSE THERE'S NO FUCKING CUNT TO PASS THE FUCKINBG CUNTING BALL TOO.

I'm not sure how many times we're going to have to go over this.

 

[irishred]

In terms of real games (taking his total minutes and dividing by ninety) over the course of his Liverpool career, he's played 84 games, scored 16 and assisted 21. So roughly a goal or an assist every two and a quarter games...and that's without counting what a sexy little beast he is. I don't have any figures but I'd place everything I have on him being our first or second best player in third man assists if you were. When I think of Coutinho the first thing that comes to mind is him receiving the ball from deep, beating a few players, opening up the field and laying it off.

 

[mark1975]

Entirely agree with your last point there. And it very much applies to Sterling and Lallana too.

How much better would say Lallana have looked had he played in the same side as Suarez and Sturridge the year before?

Yeah, It's the same for all of them, there just wasn't an intelligent outlet for much of the season.

Our defense is woeful as we know, but it was a collective problem, we invited pressure due to playing most of the season without a recognised forward. You could see why Sterling would get the nod most of the time, because he was the only one who was quick and fairly tireless in the shift he would put in, the last couple of months aside. So I can kind of understand why the team would inevitably hit a brick wall and cave in, playing for most of the season without a striker. Not that there's any excuse for the way we capitulated in the end, or for the fact we had 3 strikers that were barely used.

As you say, I think Lallana would have thrived with a potent attack ahead of him, I saw him coming in as not only supplementing Coutinho but providing stiff competition for him, that would have a been a great asset the season before when Suarez was running riot and we needed to mix things up. His assists and goals scored would have been much higher, I'd imagine.