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Chelsea Sunday

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Back Stage, James Lawton - Too many bitter reds

Liverpool fans calling on their side to lie down against Chelsea today make a mockery of a great club and show how hate has trumped respect





Having endured such a brutal season, Liverpool fans are probably entitled to a little dispensation for psychological trauma. Even so, this hardly dilutes the dispiriting meaning of a debate that has been growing for some time on Merseyside.

It is one that makes a mockery of a well-earned reputation for humour of a high quality, generosity and a wry collective understanding of how football works.

You could call it a controversy or a difference of opinion but for anyone who remembers what Anfield, and especially the Kop, used to represent, betrayal is a word that comes more sharply to mind.

How else to react to the view of a dismayingly large section of the Liverpool support that it would be better if their side folded against Chelsea today rather than give aid and comfort to the title hopes of Manchester United?

This, it is being argued on a daily basis on the city's radio phone-ins and in the pages of local newspapers, would deny United the chance to move beyond Liverpool and claim a 19th and record English title.

It would, we are told, make the summer a little more bearable. A season of gut-wrenching under-achievement after the high hopes of last spring could be wiped away, free of the awful fact that it was the one in which United finally climbed to the mountain top of English football.

Apparently even the faint possibility of Liverpool lurching into the fourth Champions League place, and rescuing mere failure from the jaws of catastrophe, is insufficient reason to assist United. You might want to imagine this is just a bout of Scouse gallows humour but the sheer volume of its expression is suggesting otherwise.

Indeed, it is saying that in the matter of the mutual hatred that exists between large numbers of Liverpool and United fans we may have finally arrived at a sporting Doomsday.

No, of course this doesn't exactly come out of a clear blue sky. In 1995 some Liverpool fans came to blows over the question of whether their team should gently subside before the Blackburn contenders of their old hero Kenny Dalglish and thus deny United, who needed three points at West Ham to land the title. That day the solution might have been authored by Solomon. Liverpool beat Blackburn but United could only draw at Upton Park.

More recently, of course, the degeneration of spirit has been progressively sinister. When United's Alan Smith broke his leg at Anfield there was much mirth from some of the home fans – and obstruction to the ambulance rushing him to hospital. The reward for reporting this – and a disgusting scene when some fans standing at the memorial to the fallen of Hillsborough turned to United fans filing past with police escort and started yelling, "Munich, Munich" – was to be lectured by one academic on the healthy dynamics of working-class life.

It is tragic when you think of the raw charm that used to rule the Anfield terraces. The young Bobby Charlton, already an Old Trafford star, used to drive there for night matches from his home in Cheshire and, if he always knew he was in for a night of considerable mockery, it was no hardship beside the thrill of being in so vibrant a place. It was also one that was quick to acknowledge the merit of all opposition. The late Leeds United manager, Don Revie, carried to his dying day the memory of how Anfield saluted his brilliant but much reviled team's first title win.

You can't remake such days and such a philosophy but many certainly heard an echo when, as a doomed Liverpool prepared to enter extra time in their Europa Cup semi-final on Thursday night, it was announced that Fulham had already made it through to the final. When the cheers thundered around the ground, one veteran Anfield denizen turned to his companion and said, "That's just like the old days, isn't it?"

An echo of what, though? Perhaps it was of a time when it was easier to admire than to hate, when giving credit to any opponent, not just one who had passed your hate test, was as natural as sipping your Bovril. When the need to win was important but it didn't have to eat up your soul.

Yes, of course, it has been a disenchanting season for Liverpool, not one to provoke an overwhelming sense of well-being and confidence. If Rafa Benitez does go to Juventus he will leave a team nowhere near the land of promise that his early work, and phenomenal Champions League coup, suggested was so accessible. But of course it will simply redouble his insistence that Liverpool fight it out with the champions-elect. Who could want for less?

None of this is to mention the memory of Bill Shankly. We know how he would have reacted to his team throwing a game merely to spite Manchester United. "Jesus Christ, it's an abomination," he would have said. Be sure, too, it would have been by way of the merest opening gambit.


http://www.tribune.ie/sport/soccer/article/2010/apr/25/back-stage-james-lawton-too-many-bitter-reds/
 
It seems as though every fucker has an opinion and feels they have the right to tell us what kind of fans we are or indeed if we are fans at all depending on how we feel about a football game.
Well I put it to you that if you want Liverpool to win because you just can't hope for defeat, then that's fine. If you want Chelsea to win to stop the mancs, well that's fine too. If you want a chelsea win to force the owners hand then that's fine. If you want a Liverpool win hoping we can sneak 4th then that's fine. Or if like me you just don't give a fuck and just want this sorry assed season over and fucking done with, well guess what that's fine, and don't let anyone tell you different.
 
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39958.msg1097352#msg1097352 date=1272746699]
What about if you want a draw?
[/quote]Not. Proper. Fan.
 
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39958.msg1097354#msg1097354 date=1272746972]
Smoke me.
[/quote]...a kipper skipper.
 
Like your good self, I am not actually arsed. I am in work, probably wont even bother listening to it, and either way I will be satisfied. If that makes sense. Especially if the Mancs draw or lose.
 
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39958.msg1097358#msg1097358 date=1272747316]
Like your good self, I am not actually arsed. I am in work, probably wont even bother listening to it, and either way I will be satisfied. If that makes sense. Especially if the Mancs draw or lose.
[/quote]Obviously ideally it would be 1995 all over. We do our bit and then they fuck it up anyway. But I can't take any joy out of Chelsea winning the league either. So fuck it. I don't care and I'm not going to let it get to me.
I'm England till I die.....etc
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39958.msg1097363#msg1097363 date=1272747632]
[quote author=Loch Ness Monster link=topic=39958.msg1097358#msg1097358 date=1272747316]
Like your good self, I am not actually arsed. I am in work, probably wont even bother listening to it, and either way I will be satisfied. If that makes sense. Especially if the Mancs draw or lose.
[/quote]Obviously ideally it would be 1995 all over. We do our bit and then they fuck it up anyway. But I can't take any joy out of Chelsea winning the league either. So fuck it. I don't care and I'm not going to let it get to me.
I'm England till I die.....etc
[/quote]

If we do beat them, I hope we rape them, that would be nice.
 
We beat Chelsea massively and the Salfordite joy comes out in force. Salford then lose to Sunderland and their joy suddenly turns to despair.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39958.msg1097367#msg1097367 date=1272747740]
We beat Chelsea massively and the Salfordite joy comes out in force. Salford then lose to Sunderland and their joy suddenly turns to despair.
[/quote]Yeah that'd do I Spose
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39958.msg1097368#msg1097368 date=1272747811]
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39958.msg1097367#msg1097367 date=1272747740]
We beat Chelsea massively and the Salfordite joy comes out in force. Salford then lose to Sunderland and their joy suddenly turns to despair.
[/quote]Yeah that'd do I Spose
[/quote]

I'd be reasonably pleased with that.
 
Fuck United. Fuck Chelsea. Fuck the league...

We need to take care of our own. it means that all our guys involved in the world cup needs as much rest as possible from now to the world cup. Field El Zahr ahead of Kuyt and Plessis ahead of Mascher. Field Kelly ahead of Johnson and Cavalieri ahead of Pepe. Field Zorba ahead of Agger and Pacheco ahead of Gerrard. Just save all tired legs ahead of next season!
 
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=39958.msg1097403#msg1097403 date=1272760961]
Fuck United. Fuck Chelsea. Fuck the league...

We need to take care of our own. it means that all our guys involved in the world cup needs as much rest as possible from now to the world cup. Field El Zahr ahead of Kuyt and Plessis ahead of Mascher. Field Kelly ahead of Johnson and Cavalieri ahead of Pepe. Field Zorba ahead of Agger and Pacheco ahead of Gerrard. Just save all tired legs ahead of next season!
[/quote]

Wha? Won't the several months be enough for the tired legs to recover?

Behave.
 
John Aldridge wrote in one of this mornings papers that if he had a penalty in injury time in front of the Kop to beat Chelsea today he would balloon the ball over the bar and into the Kop as a souvenir for someone
 
Any team news yet?

Oh and Insig, El fucking Zhar is not Liverpool standard and probably never will be. If he ever sets foot on the pitch again in our colours, I'll cry.
 
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=39958.msg1097311#msg1097311 date=1272737016]
I will cheer for us tomorrow as I always do but were we to fall to defeat it's one I will take with a little more grace than usual.
[/quote]

That sums up how I feel.
 
Listening to Manc cunts this morning is really starting to make me want us to lose.

I agree with Andy though, this season is dead in the water so it makes no odds either way.
 
[quote author=vantage link=topic=39958.msg1097573#msg1097573 date=1272795712]
Any team news yet?

Oh and Insig, El fucking Zhar is not Liverpool standard and probably never will be. If he ever sets foot on the pitch again in our colours, I'll cry.
[/quote]

After all summer torunaments our players seem to come home jaded. And we have allways these early qualifiers anyway. I would rather EL Zahr played the two last games rather than wearing Stevie G and Mascherano more out. They will have a hectic program in the summer, and might as well get some rest from now!
 
[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=39958.msg1094604#msg1094604 date=1272444471]
Again, after all we've seen this season, are people now actually worrying we'll win successive games against decent opposition.
[/quote]

And we basically lost both of them.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=39958.msg1097970#msg1097970 date=1272811606]
reasonable response to the game from fergie, unlike their fans
[/quote]

What did he say?
 
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