Chelsea Sunday

[Bazza The Kopite]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39958.msg1094614#msg1094614 date=1272445348]
[quote author=Piedro link=topic=39958.msg1094591#msg1094591 date=1272443514]
Did anyone even read that Times Article posted the other day?

Here's the main extract:

Ferguson, for his own sound reasons, was among those who let open the stable doors by deciding that what is best for United outweighs all other considerations. When other clubs have hoped United might give a game their full attention, he has not always been able to oblige. Some Manchester City fans still have not forgiven him for the team he picked back in May 2001, that included Michael Stewart, Luke Chadwick and Ronnie Wallwork, for the visit of Derby County. “We saw their team and thought we had a little chance,†Jim Smith, the Derby manager, said.

He was proved right. Derby celebrated the most unlikely victory at the home of the champions, securing their top-flight status at City’s expense, and the joking between Ferguson and Smith at the final whistle still rankles among blue die-hards.

Then there was the resting by Ferguson of senior players including Roy Keane, Wayne Rooney and Ruud van Nistelrooy at home to West Bromwich Albion towards the end of the 2004-05 season, and the improbable draw at Old Trafford that helped Bryan Robson’s side to safety.

Most notoriously, Neil Warnock will never shed the bitterness he feels having seen Ferguson rest more than half his first team against West Ham United on the final day of the 2006-07 season. Carlos Tévez scored and Sheffield United were relegated.

Ferguson was looking after United in every case, and will make no apologies for that. Few neutrals condemned him for it. No doubt he will be equally understanding when questions about Benítez, integrity and team selection are put to him before Sunday.

[/quote]

Funny how Worncock always neglects to mention that a home win against another relegation struggler would have kept his bunch of junkyard dogs up that day. There are few people I despise more in football than that rancid Yorkie blabbermouth.
[/quote]

I put Allardyce in that bracket too.

But getting back to the topic, it really would kill me if we were to gift United the title having nothing to play for (assuming Spurs beat Bolton). Would much prefer the scenario back in 1992 where we beat United at Anfield to give Leeds the title.

 

[LarryHagman]

Play the first team for a no-mark Euro tie, rest the first team to potentially influence other's involvement in a top of the table clash so we can have (maybe) have a laugh at another team significantly better than us.

Is this going somewhere I can't see?

Fuck me.

 

[ILD]

[quote author=Piedro link=topic=39958.msg1094591#msg1094591 date=1272443514]
Did anyone even read that Times Article posted the other day?

Here's the main extract:

Ferguson, for his own sound reasons, was among those who let open the stable doors by deciding that what is best for United outweighs all other considerations. When other clubs have hoped United might give a game their full attention, he has not always been able to oblige. Some Manchester City fans still have not forgiven him for the team he picked back in May 2001, that included Michael Stewart, Luke Chadwick and Ronnie Wallwork, for the visit of Derby County. “We saw their team and thought we had a little chance,†Jim Smith, the Derby manager, said.

He was proved right. Derby celebrated the most unlikely victory at the home of the champions, securing their top-flight status at City’s expense, and the joking between Ferguson and Smith at the final whistle still rankles among blue die-hards.

Then there was the resting by Ferguson of senior players including Roy Keane, Wayne Rooney and Ruud van Nistelrooy at home to West Bromwich Albion towards the end of the 2004-05 season, and the improbable draw at Old Trafford that helped Bryan Robson’s side to safety.

Most notoriously, Neil Warnock will never shed the bitterness he feels having seen Ferguson rest more than half his first team against West Ham United on the final day of the 2006-07 season. Carlos Tévez scored and Sheffield United were relegated.

Ferguson was looking after United in every case, and will make no apologies for that. Few neutrals condemned him for it. No doubt he will be equally understanding when questions about Benítez, integrity and team selection are put to him before Sunday.

[/quote]

Yeah read it Pete. I'm keeping it close at hand for when I need to use it against some Manc fans waiting to turn the knife.

 

[RolandG]

Play our strongest team to get a result against Atletico on Thursday. Win the tie and make a few changes. Ngog is never going to worry the Chavs even on a good day!

 

[Jack D Rips]

Never forget that its not just the mancs looking for no 19, its judas mikey looking for no 1. Not sure which is worse

 

[ibromurph]

I think we'll get beaten by Chelsea anyway so as long as nobody gets injured (if we make it to the Europa league final), I don't care what team we play.

I do have a problem with everyone insisting we, all of a sudden, owe it ourselves to die for the shirt in pursuit of a result (for United) when for the most part this season we've been gash.

I'll be livid if I see Stevie running himself into the ground, Insua actually defending, and Lucas actually looking like a Premiership footballer, when for the most part of this season they've been doing anything but that.

This is what Fergie's mindgames are all about. Getting opposing teams to play each game like a cup final against his rivals but not against his own team.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39958.msg1094876#msg1094876 date=1272464803]
Never forget that its not just the mancs looking for no 19, its judas mikey looking for no 1. Not sure which is worse
[/quote]Dont you need ten league starts to get a medal?
Owen played 19 (14 as sub) goals 3.
Hahahaha shite.

 

[LarryHagman]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39958.msg1094881#msg1094881 date=1272465092]

I'll be livid if I see Stevie running himself into the ground, Insua actually defending, and Lucas actually looking like a Premiership footballer.

[/quote]

Fair enough.

 

[Piedro]

[quote author=LarryHagman link=topic=39958.msg1094832#msg1094832 date=1272460887]

Play the first team for a no-mark Euro tie, rest the first team to potentially influence other's involvement in a top of the table clash so we can have (maybe) have a laugh at another team significantly better than us.

Is this going somewhere I can't see?

Fuck me.


[/quote]

I wouldnt "have a laugh" if Utd didnt win the league.

I would "have a cry" if they did win it though.

 

[Insignificance]

I am afraid Benitez will rest his key players Lucas and Kuyt against Chelsea, hence we will prove stronger than normal.....

 

[DHSC]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39958.msg1094887#msg1094887 date=1272465431]
[quote author=Jack D Rips link=topic=39958.msg1094876#msg1094876 date=1272464803]
Never forget that its not just the mancs looking for no 19, its judas mikey looking for no 1. Not sure which is worse
[/quote]Dont you need ten league starts to get a medal?
Owen played 19 (14 as sub) goals 3.
Hahahaha shite.
[/quote]

Unfortunately I think it's ten games.

 

[doctor_mac]

Well we knew this was coming:
Sir Alex Ferguson banks on Liverpool pride



Sir Alex Ferguson insists Liverpool will not "throw away history" by giving Chelsea the win to scupper Manchester United's Premier League title chances.
The Blues head to Anfield one point clear of United, who visit Sunderland bidding to overhaul the record of 18 English titles they hold with the Reds.
With two games to go, United boss Ferguson said: "They've been in 11 European finals and won 18 titles.
"Great clubs don't throw traditions away for one game. The fans know that."
The 68-year-old Scot added: "Do you think the fans want to go home saying their players capitulated and they didn't try and thinking it wouldn't happen again?"
Liverpool have endured a difficult season, which took a further downturn when they suffered a Europa League semi-final defeat at the hands of Atletico Madrid on Thursday, going out on away goals after Diego Forlan's extra-time strike.

I don't care what Manchester United will do. I will play to win on Sunday because I want to make sure we can get those three points and still have a chance of fourth place

However, with Ferguson's side facing Sunderland at the Stadium of Light two hours after the Liverpool v Chelsea clash, the Scot is hopeful that the Reds' professionalism will ensure they perform against the Blues.
The Merseysiders themselves are battling for fourth place which comes with the chance to play in the lucrative Champions League but Rafael Benitez's Reds are seventh, two points behind fourth-place Tottenham having played one game more.
"It is difficult to say how Liverpool's players will feel," reflected Ferguson, who could have 34-goal striker Wayne Rooney and defender Rio Ferdinand available again after recent injuries. "It is Rafa's job to prepare his players.
"The way we lost to Bayern Munich [in the Champions League] gave me a difficult job to raise players but you have to do it. That is your job.
"It took me a couple of days to get over it. But you can't wallow in a pit.

"I would totally agree that we would have preferred last night's game [Liverpool v Atletico Madrid on Thursday] to finish in 90 minutes and I have always said teams don't get the proper help when they are in Europe.
"Having to play Sunday lunchtime after a Thursday game is not fair but it happens time and again when we see repeatedly teams abroad being allowed to bring games forward to suit their programme. That is a fact.
"They say there is congestion but it is not that big you can't help a team by one day or a few hours.
"We have all had to cope with it over the years. You depend on the great resilience of the English player."
This weekend's fixture situation bears similarities to 1995, when on the last day of the season United headed to West Ham knowing it would take a victory at Upton Park and a Liverpool win over Blackburn at Anfield to give them the title.

I think that Sunderland will do their best to beat United and Liverpool will do the same against us
Chelsea boss Carlo Ancelotti
United's failure to beat the Hammers 15 years ago made Liverpool's victory over Blackburn that day redundant.
But Ferguson is hoping Benitez's side can emulate their predecessors to aid the Red Devils in their quest to claim a record 19th league title by sealing an historic fourth in succession.
"We were depending on Liverpool producing - and they did," recalled Ferguson.
"You have to earn a right to win the title. OK, there were a lot of English players in their team that day and they understood the history of Liverpool FC.
"But I don't think there has been such a swing that the current players do not understand the history of Liverpool."
Liverpool goalkeeper Jose Reina has bristled at the suggestion he and his team-mates would be going for anything other than a victory against Chelsea.
"I don't play for them," Spaniard Reina said. "I play for my team and my supporters.
"I don't care what Manchester United will do. I will play to win on Sunday because I want to make sure we can get those three points and still have a chance of fourth place.
"We are playing at home and we never play for a draw or defeat. We will try to deliver a last home win of the season."

While Liverpool can be expected to provide stern opposition as Chelsea target another three points, Blues boss Carlo Ancelotti was unfazed by suggestions that Sunderland - managed by former United captain Steve Bruce - may not provide Ferguson's men with the toughest of challenges.
"I think that Sunderland will do their best to beat United and Liverpool will do the same against us," Ancelotti said.
"Every team has respect for this Premier League and every team has to do their best until the end of the matches.
"We have to pay attention because Liverpool are a strong team and it's very difficult to win at Anfield, but we have to try. We need to have three more points after Sunday.
"With two victories we can be champions, so we have to focus on our game and not think about Sunderland's result."

 

[TheBunnyman]

I've got a horrible feeling this will end in a draw, which will be a shit result for both teams.

I also have a feeling Sunderland might get something against United though. Another beachball, maybe?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

What do we think of this article then?
I know some agree with him, but it's really just not like that when you are at the game, I couldn't sit there and be happy that twats like Terry , Lampard , Cole and Drogba were beating us , perhaps even embarrassing us, (if we have the same team that finished Thursday it could be a massacre).
It's not as if it's that meaningless, or that much of a foregone conclusion that it will hand the title to Unite.
Fourth is still not mathematically impossible, and finnishing above some perenial mid table teams certainly isn't.
Ask yourself this question.....What do you think Shanks would have thought?


I really hate cunts like this telling me what I am , and what I can and can't do, I bet he has something to do with SOS too

Only one thing can save the season for Liverpool fans: defeat by Chelsea tomorrow. Any other result would open up the possibility of a summer of pain.

That statement will provoke the inevitable question: how can you say you are a Liverpool fan and want the team to lose? The opposite is true. No real Kopite could want to beat Chelsea. Victory for the home side at Anfield would probably deliver the title to Manchester United. It is hard to see Sunderland getting a result if Chelsea fall flat.

The antagonism between Liverpool and United is well documented and handing the trophy to Old Trafford is bad enough. But there are bigger forces at work. Sir Alex Ferguson, piling on the pressure in typical style, said: “Great clubs don’t throw their history and traditions away for one game.â€

He is right. For once, his logic is spot-on. If Liverpool lose, only three points are at stake. A defeat will soon be forgotten at Anfield. If, however, the result goes the other way, it will probably hand United two unprecedented achievements. It will be Old Trafford’s nineteenth title and the fourth league win in a row. Liverpool, left on 18 titles and one of four clubs to have won three in a row, would fall behind their rivals on two fronts.
Related Links

* Ferguson banking on Anfield pride

* Forlan breaks Liverpool's hearts

* Benítez ducks questions about his future

For United it would be an historic moment, one to savour. Liverpool’s claim to be English football’s enduring force would be, for want of a better phrase, history. Until United edge ahead, it is still the history, especially when the five European Cups are taken into account.

Which brings us to Europe. The club certainly need the Champions League income. However, the proposition would be more attractive if Liverpool’s ownership and boardroom were not so destructively erratic. If Uefa’s cash props up George Gillett Jr, Tom Hicks and the rancid regime at Anfield then Europe can keep it. Defeat could force Martin Broughton, the new chairman charged with selling the club, to ask a more realistic price than the £500 million that potential buyers are being quoted.

Some will ask what of the rivalry with Chelsea? What rivalry? Fans of the West London club are desperate to hate Liverpool, but it does not work in reverse. Chelsea are inconsequential — think Nottingham Forest in the late 1970s. The antipathy is all one way.

It is not the same with United. The East Lancs Road rivalry is deep-seated and venomous. It comprises the sort of mutual loathing that gives the elation of victory an extra edge and the despair of defeat a greater depth. Agony for United fans tomorrow would be a delicious little sweetener after a bitter season.

By contrast, losing at Anfield would cause Liverpool little consternation. The best thing that could happen is a Chelsea victory.

If you do not understand this, you do not understand the history and traditions of the club and the city.

If you want to beat Chelsea tomorrow, you are not a Liverpool supporter.

 

[TheBunnyman]

The tone is really fucking irritating, I agree, but I do accept much of the logic.

 

[the count]

My love of Liverpool supercedes my dislike of other teams, Man U included.

Right now my worries for LFC have bigger fish to fry than losing our title as record title holder.

 

[jexykrodic]

After the turmoil and disappointment of the season I really couldn't care less about the result of the Chelsea game or United winning another title.

The sooner this season ends the better, then at least we have the hope that the club is sold and a fresh start is made.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39958.msg1097113#msg1097113 date=1272703704]
What do we think of this article then?


If you want to beat Chelsea tomorrow, you are not a Liverpool supporter. [/quote]


patronizing cunt

 

[Molbystwin]

For those who took the painful decision that its better to lose on Sunday....



What if Villa and man city draw today and Bolton beat spurs....

will that change your mind?

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=39958.msg1097195#msg1097195 date=1272714263]
For those who took the painful decision that its better to lose on Sunday....



What if Villa and man city draw today and Bolton beat spurs....

will that change your mind?


[/quote]

Bolton won't beat Spurs. Their away form is crap and they don't have anything to play for. Plus, Spurs are much better than Bolton.

I've tried almost every permutation on the Premiership Predictor thing on the BBC, and it's pretty fucking certain we won't finish fourth. It'll be Spurs or Man City.

 

[ibromurph]

[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=39958.msg1097195#msg1097195 date=1272714263]
For those who took the painful decision that its better to lose on Sunday....



What if Villa and man city draw today and Bolton beat spurs....

will that change your mind?


[/quote]

You hate the owners more than anyone. Surely, you appreciate that a change of ownership is more likely should we not make Europe?

I'd take one season of no European football if it meant we got better owners who could begin building a ground and moving the club forward. In fact, if they leave after this season, I would class it as a good season overall for the club.

Sometimes you have to take a step back to take two forward.

 

[ibromurph]

BTW, Fergie can go and suck on a lemon.

He's trying to make it sound like if we don't get a result against Chelsea (who are a better side anyway, and have beaten many of the other top sides home and away), that somehow we'll have "thrown away our history".

Erm, how about them just being hungrier, a lot fresher and simply better?

Should we lose on Sunday (especially, by more than a goal) no doubt the conspiracy theorists will out in full force, led by Old Ginsoak.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=ibromurph link=topic=39958.msg1097222#msg1097222 date=1272718678]
BTW, Fergie can go and suck on a lemon.

He's trying to make it sound like if we don't get a result against Chelsea (who are a better side anyway, and have beaten many of the other top sides home and away), that somehow we'll have "thrown away our history".

Erm, how about them just being hungrier, a lot fresher and simply better?

Should we lose on Sunday (especially, by more than a goal) no doubt the conspiracy theorists will out in full force, led by Old Ginsoak.
[/quote]

Our chances of victory are slim in the extreme.... unless chelsea choke.

Its a fucking dreadful season for us whatever way you look at it it, as for finishing fourth, i think it would make us more saleable not less and as of yet the owners really dont seem to mind waiting to reiceive their pound of flesh.

 

[Molbystwin]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=39958.msg1097113#msg1097113 date=1272703704]
What do we think of this article then?
I know some agree with him, but it's really just not like that when you are at the game, I couldn't sit there and be happy that twats like Terry , Lampard , Cole and Drogba were beating us , perhaps even embarrassing us, (if we have the same team that finished Thursday it could be a massacre).
It's not as if it's that meaningless, or that much of a foregone conclusion that it will hand the title to Unite.
Fourth is still not mathematically impossible, and finnishing above some perenial mid table teams certainly isn't.
Ask yourself this question.....What do you think Shanks would have thought?


I really hate cunts like this telling me what I am , and what I can and can't do, I bet he has something to do with SOS too

Only one thing can save the season for Liverpool fans: defeat by Chelsea tomorrow. Any other result would open up the possibility of a summer of pain.

That statement will provoke the inevitable question: how can you say you are a Liverpool fan and want the team to lose? The opposite is true. No real Kopite could want to beat Chelsea. Victory for the home side at Anfield would probably deliver the title to Manchester United. It is hard to see Sunderland getting a result if Chelsea fall flat.

The antagonism between Liverpool and United is well documented and handing the trophy to Old Trafford is bad enough. But there are bigger forces at work. Sir Alex Ferguson, piling on the pressure in typical style, said: “Great clubs don’t throw their history and traditions away for one game.â€

He is right. For once, his logic is spot-on. If Liverpool lose, only three points are at stake. A defeat will soon be forgotten at Anfield. If, however, the result goes the other way, it will probably hand United two unprecedented achievements. It will be Old Trafford’s nineteenth title and the fourth league win in a row. Liverpool, left on 18 titles and one of four clubs to have won three in a row, would fall behind their rivals on two fronts.
Related Links

* Ferguson banking on Anfield pride

* Forlan breaks Liverpool's hearts

* Benítez ducks questions about his future

For United it would be an historic moment, one to savour. Liverpool’s claim to be English football’s enduring force would be, for want of a better phrase, history. Until United edge ahead, it is still the history, especially when the five European Cups are taken into account.

Which brings us to Europe. The club certainly need the Champions League income. However, the proposition would be more attractive if Liverpool’s ownership and boardroom were not so destructively erratic. If Uefa’s cash props up George Gillett Jr, Tom Hicks and the rancid regime at Anfield then Europe can keep it. Defeat could force Martin Broughton, the new chairman charged with selling the club, to ask a more realistic price than the £500 million that potential buyers are being quoted.

Some will ask what of the rivalry with Chelsea? What rivalry? Fans of the West London club are desperate to hate Liverpool, but it does not work in reverse. Chelsea are inconsequential — think Nottingham Forest in the late 1970s. The antipathy is all one way.

It is not the same with United. The East Lancs Road rivalry is deep-seated and venomous. It comprises the sort of mutual loathing that gives the elation of victory an extra edge and the despair of defeat a greater depth. Agony for United fans tomorrow would be a delicious little sweetener after a bitter season.

By contrast, losing at Anfield would cause Liverpool little consternation. The best thing that could happen is a Chelsea victory.

If you do not understand this, you do not understand the history and traditions of the club and the city.

If you want to beat Chelsea tomorrow, you are not a Liverpool supporter.

[/quote]

Its nice to finally be an agreement with somebody on here!.... Totally with you on that post Vlad, sitting there watching Chelsea fuck us up just to spite mancs?? fuck that.... Barret is wrong and he has no right to say that IMO. I sympathise with those of us who want us to lose but i cannot agree with the terms he uses nor his conclusions.

i dont know how ill i will feel watching the match but i certainly wont be feeling guilty for celebrating when and if we score.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39958.msg1097216#msg1097216 date=1272717772]
[quote author=Molbystwin link=topic=39958.msg1097195#msg1097195 date=1272714263]
For those who took the painful decision that its better to lose on Sunday....



What if Villa and man city draw today and Bolton beat spurs....

will that change your mind?


[/quote]

Bolton won't beat Spurs. Their away form is crap and they don't have anything to play for. Plus, Spurs are much better than Bolton.

I've tried almost every permutation on the Premiership Predictor thing on the BBC, and it's pretty fucking certain we won't finish fourth. It'll be Spurs or Man City.
[/quote]

Told you.

 

[etchy]

In other news, Everton's drawn. So looks like 7th Euro League is secured with a gd of 18 goals. Contenders fo 4th are Spurs and Man City now, Aston Villa can't get better than 4th coz of that big goal difference as well.
Change anyone's perspective? I mean mathematically Liverpool 'could' still get 4th by 1 point but chances of both Spurs & Man City fouling up is very low. Now losing to Chelsea if it means they get the title rather than Man U is bearable but I'll go for that now.
Still I'll not watch the live match tomm, pains me to have to root against Liverpool.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I will cheer for us tomorrow as I always do but were we to fall to defeat it's one I will take with a little more grace than usual.

 

[Halmeister]

I probably won't be watching anyway but I couldn't give a shit what happens tomorrow. I'll be disgusted if we throw the game, though. I don't think we would. United will get to 19 before us anyway so what does it matter? We're not bitter, we're not Everton fans.

 

[KopRed]

The only reason i will want us to lose this game is to prevent ANY team from overtaking us in the number of league titles won. It doesn't matter whether it is United, Leeds or Chester city that is overtaking us.

 

[Halmeister]

They'll get 19 before us anyway. If not this season, then the next