[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=37397.msg999251#msg999251 date=1259211241]
[quote author=Doc_Rule link=topic=37397.msg999245#msg999245 date=1259206800]
Show me where i said it was not significant.
Show me one place i said that.
No wait, you can't. Because that's not what i said. A great habit some of you have of making your own interpretations of what's actually being said.
I did not say it was not a significant achievement. It was. What i said was that Rafa has been living off it since. And the facts of the matter are that we had an incredible amount of luck on our run to the final(well deserved given the previous 15 years), and that 13 or 14 of the final squad were Houllier's players. Since Rafa built his own team he has won nothing and had he not won the CL then it would be more than a minority calling for his head.
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I'm sorry you feel uncomfortable with the perfectly logical result of your own argument. Actually I'm not, you should feel uncomfortable with it, because it's vile.
You were making an argument that Rafa hasn't achieved anything with his own players. This wasn't satisfying enough for your overstated polemic, so you went further, and stated that largest achievement he does have, in winning the CL, was the "luckiest ever". You are obviously making a case against Rafa, and you feel as though in order to do so, you have to diminish his contribution toward his major success, and achieve this by calling it the "luckiest ever". In calling something not just lucky, but the luckiest thing of its kind in history, you elevate the whim of chance, and you neccesarily reduce the role of personal actions.
Unfortunately, in so doing, you inevitably give less credit not just to the manager but to the team for achieving what they did with what they had at the time. We played absolutely perfectly in several games, including games without our best players, and we needed to against superior team after superior team on the way to that final. It was an absolutely fantastic achievement for those players, not for god, the cosmos, karma, or luck. When you attribute success to luck, you remove rightful credit from will and execution. "We deserve it because of the last 15 years" NO! There aren't rewards for failure. The team and Rafa deserve it. FSP deserved it for that substitute performance, Igor deserved it for playing his best game ever on the worlds largest club stage. You reduce the significance of our victory by attributing it to some unknown metaphysical force. Usually it is the bitter loser that posits this, and as luck is a totally unknowable, unquantifiable, immeasurable, and perhaps non-existent thing, it is likewise difficult to dismiss once the bare assertion is made.
But we aren't the bitter loser. We fucking won. And at a time where we are losing, you can refrain from mischaracterizing our famous wins.
And, if you want to make a decent case against Rafa, you probably don't want to bring luck to bear, as you'll then have to forgive others when they use it with regard to injuries, beachballs etc and elevate it over the real decision making that left our squad thin in the first place.
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Yawn.
Typical.
You think that by ranting and repeating tired and boring inaccurate opinions of your fellow sheep that it proves me wrong?
No, you're more likely to pretend i said something completely different because then you can put your Rafa fanclub hat on again and give more one-sided bolox arguments to try and beat down anyone that doesn't look at the world through the same tinted glasses as you do.
You're incredibly hypocritical. You throw tantrums because i apparently belittle Rafa's achievements(when i'm actually putting them in context) and your way of counter-arguing the points is over-rate and deify Rafa and everything he does.
You should take your own advice for a change. Stop posting your opinion as fact. You love to brow-beat over it, well practice what you breach.
If you can name me one team that had more luck in a run to a CL win than us, i'd like to hear it.
