Borini
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Yep, unwanted players have bailed us out on several occasions.
Agree in principle. In practice my bet is this is happening because of Borini's turning down the move to Sunderland last summer.
Yes, I agree, but I still don't see it's the most prudent way forward. It's not going to improve Rodgers' chances of getting a worthwhile sum for him in the future - it's surely just about wiped out a significant fee completely - and it's rendered the squad one man fewer. I could understand freezing him out if he strolled around obviously not caring, but he does actually seem to work on the rare occasions he's been picked, so it seems irrational, when the team is struggling and the bench is weak, to just throw a player away.
Quite apart from whether Rodgers needs to assert his authority by punishing him for his defiance, there's the more immediate concern of finally getting him out the door in January, and the only thing that seems likely to work there is a consistent message of 'you will not play here'. A message of 'you've got no chance. Unless Sturridge gets injured, obv. Or Lambert looks a bit slow and lumbering. Or Balotelli is playing shit. No chance.' Borini would likely calculate that he was right to persist and would be wrong to give in now.
So we'd lose the £8-10m that might be the difference between getting a decent striker in and sticking with what we've got. And in that case the trade-off for playing Borini in a couple of games now could be not having a good striker for the final 15 or so games of the season.
So we'd lose the £8-10m that might be the difference between getting a decent striker in and sticking with what we've got. And in that case the trade-off for playing Borini in a couple of games now could be not having a good striker for the final 15 or so games of the season.
Not necessarily. Depends who comes in for him, as opposed to the chance of a similar offer being available in the summer, taking into account the more favourable general conditions against the negative effect of a further 6 months of non-activity.
I'd have thought there's every chance of him deciding now is the time to compromise and move on.
I don't think so. His agent will tell him there will be more chance of getting a good deal at the end of the season (and if he's truly as feckless as Rodgers implies then it won't be a strain to stay around for a few more months on a big wage - another problem with the logic). He'll also probably think it's not at all certain that Rodgers will still be manager by then - another reason why such a tactic, here and now, is poorly conceived. If you must try it, you try it from a position of strength, not weakness.
When rumours abound that Henry twice had to be persuaded recently not to sack Rodgers, I'd say he's nowhere near a strong enough position to obsess over this sort of nonsense. Borini has first hand knowledge of several players (including Phil Bardsley) coming back in from the cold when di Canio left Sunderland. Players are very, very, hard to intimidate these days, and it can easily become a distraction trying to do so. The focus should be elsewhere.
I think it's a tad rich, Rodgers accusing Borini of money grabbing/a lack of personal ambition. He bought him and he wasn't good enough, the way he's bombing him out now is a shithouse trick, it's fine if you don't want a player, look to get the best possible outcome for yourself and the player. I don't buy that the best way to drum home the message is to carry on like this. Sit down with the player, tell him he has no future and you want to resolve it, if you need to play him in the meantime, play him, tell him that in the discussions, that while he might play a bit part, it's only to make up the numbers and to ultimately play for a move.
Rodgers is acting like Houllier did over Babbel, and like Rafa did over a few players. That's when you start to see a decline in people's respect and that's when you start to see the manager lose the dressing room.
Rodgers is acting like Houllier did over Babbel, and like Rafa did over a few players. That's when you start to see a decline in people's respect and that's when you start to see the manager lose the dressing room.
LIVERPOOL boss Gerard Houllier has revealed that Markus Babbel has probably played his last game for the club.
The Frenchman has informed the German defender that he is no longer part of his plans at Anfield as he has been unhappy with his attitude.
Babbel has failed to regain his place in the side after battling back from the life-threatening Guillan Barre Syndrome.
The former Bayern Munich star missed almost the entire the 2001/2002 season with the illness, but battled back to fitness and won a new three-year deal with The Reds.
Babbel last played in the first team at Aston Villa in the Worthington Cup in December where he was substituted early on and his angry reaction at the decision has seen him left out of the squad since.
"I doubt he will play for us again because I gave him many chances and it hasn't worked out," said Houllier.
"It doesn't look as though his attitude is the best at the moment. He is frustrated and he has been sent off twice for the reserves recently.
"The staff have been disappointed with Markus's attitude towards the club and the fans.
"It is not only the outburst during the Worthington Cup, but he has been sent off twice in the reserves. I took no action after the first incident but I will fine him two weeks' wages for the incident last week, which was unacceptable. He is no longer in my plans.
"When you have talent there is no question you are capable of doing well for your club, but the motivation has to be there too.
"The attitude has to be right and in this case it has not been right. I think the club has been very fair to Markus. We stood by him and handed him a new contract. I'm very disappointed with him."
The Frenchman has informed the German defender that he is no longer part of his plans at Anfield as he has been unhappy with his attitude.
Babbel has failed to regain his place in the side after battling back from the life-threatening Guillan Barre Syndrome.
The former Bayern Munich star missed almost the entire the 2001/2002 season with the illness, but battled back to fitness and won a new three-year deal with The Reds.
Babbel last played in the first team at Aston Villa in the Worthington Cup in December where he was substituted early on and his angry reaction at the decision has seen him left out of the squad since.
"I doubt he will play for us again because I gave him many chances and it hasn't worked out," said Houllier.
"It doesn't look as though his attitude is the best at the moment. He is frustrated and he has been sent off twice for the reserves recently.
"The staff have been disappointed with Markus's attitude towards the club and the fans.
"It is not only the outburst during the Worthington Cup, but he has been sent off twice in the reserves. I took no action after the first incident but I will fine him two weeks' wages for the incident last week, which was unacceptable. He is no longer in my plans.
"When you have talent there is no question you are capable of doing well for your club, but the motivation has to be there too.
"The attitude has to be right and in this case it has not been right. I think the club has been very fair to Markus. We stood by him and handed him a new contract. I'm very disappointed with him."
It was his right to turn down a move, but it wasn't in his best interests and hence it was a mistake. A better man might have gone out of his way to help Borini make the best of it, in fact early on in the season that is exactly what Rodgers did by giving him games.
But he still caused Rodgers an unexpected problem in the summer which seems to have scuppered some of his plans. Ergo a few months later when things are turning out badly, its natural he will look back and decide to take revenge upon him.
As Mao said of the French Revolution, it's too soon to tell. Maybe Borini will outlast the manager, get another contract or attract another club much better than Sunderland. Then it isn't a mistake. As Mark says, there are far more constructive and sensible ways to deal with unwanted players.
Why would his agent tell him that, necessarily? Was he a major influence on his decisions in the summer then? Because I'd have thought the one thing an agent would most want is a big piece of the action from a large fee (available in the summer) and also from a hefty increase in wages (also on offer back then). So I don't see any reason to automatically think his agent is a major driver of this, unless you know different, of course.
Clearly, if no reasonable offer materialises in January, then that's different, but I've never said otherwise.
The matter of Rodgers' position is a factor, but to be fair I was responding to the idea that such an approach is never sound. Just because I don't think it never is doesn't mean I think it always is.
Borini DID go on loan he did okay, well enough to make them want to keep him, but he obviously didn't fancy staying there. Seems fair enough to me. And any agent worth their salt would say stay until the summer - have you not noticed the January window being judged crap? Rodgers didn't want Downing, but he handled that perfectly sensibly. I don't really see the reason you're so eager to defend him, but let's agree to disagree because I really can't see where we'll go apart from repeating ourselves. I think I've made my points pretty clearly above. There's only so many ways of saying them.
But players move in January every year - lots of them. Do none of them have agents worth their salt? Wouldn't all of them have been better to have waited until the summer, and even more so than Borini given that they wouldn't have been looking at 6 more months of rotting in the stands as part of that alternative?
It's not as if ALL January transfers are worse than ALL of the deals that would have been available had those players waited until the summer. That's not the nature of the difference, which is more in terms of the level of activity. There's less money available to spend and clubs are more reluctant to release their players, and so in total fewer deals get done. But if the conditions are right for any single player (club willing to release, club looking to buy) then it's perfectly likely that a deal can be reached that suits all parties.
But let's agree to differ as you say.
No. Or they do but the players have fewer doubts about signing for lesser clubs. But as I said, which I hoped would be enough, let's just agree to differ.
This is just contradiction.
Rodgers lauded him as a great signing for us. Then bombed him off. Bought Aspas. Bombed him off. And on and on and one it goes.
Borini is definitely down to Rodgers, but he's one of not many whose signing one can definitely attribute to the manager. With the involvement of the transfer committee it's extremely difficult in most cases to know who actually chose whom.
At this rate Borini will be at the club longer than Rodgers.
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