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Benitez: no one has asked me to stay at Liverpool

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[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
 
I would want Rafa to stay too.

However, if we're still not in the title hunt with 2 games to go next season then it's time for a change.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095554#msg1095554 date=1272538017]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
[/quote]

cups are fantastic but for me progression is just as important and valid and we were moving forwards every season until this absolute disaster of a season. I don't expect everyone to agree with me, we're individuals and as such we have our own view of what's right for the club, I'm certainly not going to say someone is wrong for wanting rafa out, personally however I want him given another season, if he isn't given that season then fair enough onwards and upwards.
 
I've backed Rafa through thin and thinner in the past, but you'd have to say that in ANY other major European club Rafa would be out on his arse after a season like we've just had, and he knows it.
 
Most other major European clubs would have had him out by Christmas in the hope we they could get another manager to try and salvage a shitty start to the season season.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095559#msg1095559 date=1272538445]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095554#msg1095554 date=1272538017]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
[/quote]

cups are fantastic but for me progression is just as important and valid and we were moving forwards every season until this absolute disaster of a season.
[/quote]

That's really not true.

First season: 5th in the league (37pts behind champions); won the CL.
Second season: 3rd in the league (9pts behind champions); won FA Cup.
Third season: 3rd in the league (21pts behind champions); lost CL Final.
Fourth season: 4th in the league (11pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Fifth season: 2nd in the league (4pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Sixth season: probably about 7th (20-ish pts behind champions); might win Europa League.

The only seasons there where we showed significant improvement were the 2nd and the 5th. The 3rd and 4th we went backwards, and this season we've just gone into meltdown.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39989.msg1095579#msg1095579 date=1272544191]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095559#msg1095559 date=1272538445]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095554#msg1095554 date=1272538017]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
[/quote]

cups are fantastic but for me progression is just as important and valid and we were moving forwards every season until this absolute disaster of a season.
[/quote]

That's really not true.

First season: 5th in the league (37pts behind champions); won the CL.
Second season: 3rd in the league (9pts behind champions); won FA Cup.
Third season: 3rd in the league (21pts behind champions); lost CL Final.
Fourth season: 4th in the league (11pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Fifth season: 2nd in the league (4pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Sixth season: probably about 7th (20-ish pts behind champions); might win Europa League.

The only seasons there where we showed significant improvement were the 2nd and the 5th. The 3rd and 4th we went backwards, and this season we've just gone into meltdown.
[/quote]

I think its safe to say that in two of the above seasons rafa kicked the last few games into touch in favour of a CL run.
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095554#msg1095554 date=1272538017]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
[/quote]



I think this post proves that violence and beat downs are a necessary part of a healthy and orderly society.
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39989.msg1095579#msg1095579 date=1272544191]
That's really not true.

First season: 5th in the league (37pts behind champions); won the CL.
Second season: 3rd in the league (9pts behind champions); won FA Cup.
Third season: 3rd in the league (21pts behind champions); lost CL Final.
Fourth season: 4th in the league (11pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Fifth season: 2nd in the league (4pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Sixth season: probably about 7th (20-ish pts behind champions); might win Europa League.

The only seasons there where we showed significant improvement were the 2nd and the 5th. The 3rd and 4th we went backwards, and this season we've just gone into meltdown.
[/quote]

That's quite a simplistic way to look at, I would argue that the team in the 2006-7 was significantly better than the team in the previous two seasons, and if it hadn't been for the Bellemy golf club incident we would have won the champions league (yes I know Crouch should have been introduced earlier etc. but ignoring team selection, the team was better).
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39989.msg1095581#msg1095581 date=1272544648]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095554#msg1095554 date=1272538017]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
[/quote]



I think this post proves that violence and beat downs are a necessary part of a healthy and orderly society.


[/quote]

beat down? what are you going on about? lots of fans want rid, lots of fans him to stay both are valid opinions. oncey talks about cups I specifically said I look towards progress and whilst we are all over the place this season we were a mere 4 points off the league last season. you want him out, fine, but don't presume an opinion is fact.
 
Spider,

You want progress, but can't quantify it.

You say that you'd trust Rafa with 50m over Jose.

You say that you need time to see if this is blip or a trend.



Could you really take another 38 weeks of fuckin despair on these forums (and the real world) just to prove your points?
 
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=39989.msg1095579#msg1095579 date=1272544191]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095559#msg1095559 date=1272538445]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095554#msg1095554 date=1272538017]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095544#msg1095544 date=1272536251]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095538#msg1095538 date=1272535856]
Go on then, I'll give him another year too.
It'll be fun.
[/quote]

ha ha
my support of rafa must look like blind faith (or idiocy, whatever) but like I've said countless times I want to see if this season is a trend or a blip, was 2nd place a blip? one season in the grand scheme of things is no big deal. every season you hear the same fucking thing 'oh, this is our most important summer ever' give a break.
I want to see if rafa can turn it around, if he can't them of course I would want him fucked off, why would I want a manager who is obviously lost the plot. I don't you can gauge that with one season, other people feel you can and that is your choice.
[/quote]I don't understand your point mate. I just don't get it.
You want to know if this season is a blip or the norm. And that maybe last year was the norm and not a blip.
You do realise that we won nothing last year either. Or the year before. Or the year before. So what's your great ideal with our manager? That if he can evidence that SECOND place and no trophy is the normal and not a blip you will be appeased? So youre happy to be stuck in a neverending cycle of mediocre challenges so long as 7th is a blip?
I just don't understand. You are talking as though last year we won the treble.
The last trophy we won Finnan, Riise, Hamman, Cisse, Gerrard, Hyppia and Carragher played in. But for Alonso (GONE) Garcia (GONE) Crouch (GONE) and Reina that was Houlliers team.
What exactly are you waiting for?
[/quote]

cups are fantastic but for me progression is just as important and valid and we were moving forwards every season until this absolute disaster of a season.
[/quote]

That's really not true.

First season: 5th in the league (37pts behind champions); won the CL.
Second season: 3rd in the league (9pts behind champions); won FA Cup.
Third season: 3rd in the league (21pts behind champions); lost CL Final.
Fourth season: 4th in the league (11pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Fifth season: 2nd in the league (4pts behind champions); won fuck-all.
Sixth season: probably about 7th (20-ish pts behind champions); might win Europa League.

The only seasons there where we showed significant improvement were the 2nd and the 5th. The 3rd and 4th we went backwards, and this season we've just gone into meltdown.
[/quote]

The trend that Spider talks about is the trend of yoyo-ing from a good season to a bad season with Rafa. There's just no consistency with his teams. It was the same at Valencia.

Beat Madrid one week, lose to Boro the next. A microcosm of his tenure.

The only reason I'd consider giving him another season is that we're due a good season under him next year. Also, as someone alluded to earlier, the timing could work out that Capello and Mourinho will be available next year, as opposed to this.
 
I use trophies to highlight my point Neil for two reasons.
1)They are the sole measure of a football teams success. Not fancy football, not goals scored, not net spends, not top players signed NO Trophies and trophies alone. Who finished 3rd in the league in 1974? Betcha don't know. Who won the FA cup? I know do you?
2)We exist to win trophies.

That is all.
By your definition if we finish back in the top 4 next year that's a success. Then 3rd the next year Bingo, then 3rd but with more points Blam, then 2nd..... Blip oh were in 6th again nevermind it's a blip.
 
Putting aside the swathes of excuses (both before and after the events), his detached, emotionless style of management, the unhelpful comments to the media, the millions wasted on failed transfers, and the eyesore that is this season, I've just become impatient with Rafa's football philosophy.

The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - I could go on all day. There was a time when I thought that Rafa could learn from his mistakes and adapt to this league but we're still seeing the same errors this year that we were seeing in his first. He's simply too proud and stubborn to adapt the way he does things. He will stick to the same policies to the bitter end, of that I'm sure. For these reasons, I don't believe he can ever win a Premiership title, and that should be our ultimate goal.

It's like Oncy said, I'm not sure what the future holds, but I know this isn't good enough. If we stick with Rafa we're in danger of making the same mistake as him. That is, to play it safe and stick with what we know, rather than daring to believe we could be better.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]

a lot of the above you could attribute to jose himself (apart from the wide area critisism).
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]Whats the fucking point mate? Seriously. If neil and these other jockeys lived next door to Rafa and he fucked their missus they'd just say 'Well yeah, but what if the next neighbour I get rapes the dog too'
it's fucking astonishing the mythology that Rafa holds over some fans.
 
Whats the fucking point mate? Seriously. If neil and these other jockeys lived next door to Rafa and he fucked their missus they'd just say 'Well yeah, but what if the next neighbour I get rapes the dog too'
it's fucking astonishing the mythology that Rafa holds over some fans.
Click to expand...


Hahah
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095622#msg1095622 date=1272548495]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]

a lot of the above you could attribute to jose himself (apart from the wide area critisism).
[/quote]

How much of the above, and based on what?
 
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095633#msg1095633 date=1272549283]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]Whats the fucking point mate? Seriously. If neil and these other jockeys lived next door to Rafa and he fucked their missus they'd just say 'Well yeah, but what if the next neighbour I get rapes the dog too'
it's fucking astonishing the mythology that Rafa holds over some fans.
[/quote]

a the point of sounding like a scratched record

a) I can see rafa faults as clearly as anyone
b) I've pointed out those faults as often as anyone

so don't make me out to be a 'rafa can do no wrong' sycophant. the long and the short of it is I want him given another year because despite his flaws he IS a good manager and we came painfully close last season and we are a disaster this season so I want to see which season is the blip.
 
What happens when we find out that last season and this season was a blip? And we're really a 3rd or 4th position team?
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095640#msg1095640 date=1272549635]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=39989.msg1095633#msg1095633 date=1272549283]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]Whats the fucking point mate? Seriously. If neil and these other jockeys lived next door to Rafa and he fucked their missus they'd just say 'Well yeah, but what if the next neighbour I get rapes the dog too'
it's fucking astonishing the mythology that Rafa holds over some fans.
[/quote]

a the point of sounding like a scratched record

a) I can see rafa faults as clearly as anyone
b) I've pointed out those faults as often as anyone

so don't make me out to be a 'rafa can do no wrong' sycophant. the long and the short of it is I want him given another year because despite his flaws he IS a good manager and we came painfully close last season and we are a disaster this season so I want to see which season is the blip.
[/quote]Ill be honest with you spido if we win the Uefa cup, for all it's second class citizenship I will be much more inclined to give him another year. A trophy is a trophy.
 
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39989.msg1095638#msg1095638 date=1272549630]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095622#msg1095622 date=1272548495]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]

a lot of the above you could attribute to jose himself (apart from the wide area critisism).
[/quote]

How much of the above, and based on what?
[/quote]

The ridiculous approach to substitutions,
>>jose waits to make his subs just like most managers

the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own,
>>just YESTERDAY inter completely ignored their attacking strengths and had a game entirely focused on negating the opposition

the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too),
>>jose does that, a LOT

the tendency to sit back after we've scored,
>> Chelsea did that, 1-0 usually meant game over

the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions,
>> don’t think jose does that to be fair

the playing players out of position,
>>all managers without expection do this

the neglect of wide areas,
>> don’t think jose does that to be fair

the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose
>> don’t think jose does that to be fair
 
[quote author=Red Mullet link=topic=39989.msg1095642#msg1095642 date=1272549906]
What happens when we find out that last season and this season was a blip? And we're really a 3rd or 4th position team?
[/quote]

now THAT'S a good question. depends how far off we are from the eventual winners.
 
[quote author=Terrier link=topic=39989.msg1095650#msg1095650 date=1272550287]
Dear Christ.




Jose Played 6 Won 6


Rafa Played 6 Won 0



End of
[/quote]

with a far superior squad.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095646#msg1095646 date=1272550081]
[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=39989.msg1095638#msg1095638 date=1272549630]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095622#msg1095622 date=1272548495]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095616#msg1095616 date=1272548131]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=39989.msg1095614#msg1095614 date=1272548015]
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=39989.msg1095607#msg1095607 date=1272547409]


The ridiculous approach to substitutions, the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own, the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too), the tendency to sit back after we've scored, the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions, the playing players out of position, the neglect of wide areas, the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose - [/quote]

now THAT, I agree with but you could attribute the above to any number of managers.
[/quote]

None of which I want managing Liverpool.
[/quote]

a lot of the above you could attribute to jose himself (apart from the wide area critisism).
[/quote]

How much of the above, and based on what?
[/quote]

The ridiculous approach to substitutions,
>>jose waits to make his subs just like most managers
He doesn't make them at pretty much the same points in every game come what may. I'm actually with you on at least some of what you say in Rafa's defence, but this is something which irritates the heck out of me about him.

the focus on opponents strengths rather than our own,
>>just YESTERDAY inter completely ignored their attacking strengths and had a game entirely focused on negating the opposition
They were away at a full Nou Camp defending a two-goal lead. Not a single team in Europe would have played it differently.

the sacrifice of attacking threat for solidity (despite failing on that front, too),
>>jose does that, a LOT
Er, no. He doesn't sacrifice solidity as well.

the tendency to sit back after we've scored,
>> Chelsea did that, 1-0 usually meant game over
They did that for one season (and still won the title doing it BTW). Initially they played great stuff when they had Robben and Duff out wide.

the stifling of natural abilities in favour of benign instructions,
>> don’t think jose does that to be fair

the playing players out of position,
>>all managers without expection do this

the neglect of wide areas,
>> don’t think jose does that to be fair

the reluctance to take any kind of risk even when there is nothing to lose
>> don’t think jose does that to be fair

[/quote]
 
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