the other thing is how long we give these players to come good. It's not just finding a good player, its one who can settle straight away. The two definitely don't go hand in hand and that 2nd part is a much harder variable to assess
Aspas to valencia
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Be it the success/failures, its supposedly the credit/fault of the transfer committee rather than 1 man, no?
Liverpool transfers to be decided by committee, not Brendan Rodgers, claims Ian Ayre
[article=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10004873/Liverpool-transfers-to-be-decided-by-committee-not-Brendan-Rodgers-claims-Ian-Ayre.html]Ayre has offered an insight into a Liverpool transfer policy which, although no longer employing a director of football, places Rodgers as part of a recruitment team rather than accepting the traditional managerial authority to buy and sell.
Since Rodgers joined the club, Dave Fallows has joined as head of recruitment and Barry Hunter as chief scout from Manchester City, while head of analysis Michael Edwards has become a central figure in assessing targets for owners Fenway Sports Group.
Ayre said he, Rodgers, Edwards and Fallows effectively created the director of football model between them.
“We have a head of analysis, a head of recruitment, a first-team manager, myself,” Ayre said. “All of those people are all inputting into a process that delivers what a director of football would deliver.
“What we believe, and we continue to follow, is you need many people involved in the process. That doesn’t mean somebody else is picking the team for Brendan but Brendan needs to set out with his team of people which positions we want to fill and what the key targets would be for that."He has a team of people that go out and do an inordinate amount of analysis work to establish who are the best players in that position.
“Despite what people think and read, it’s not a whole bunch of guys sitting behind a computer working out who we should buy. It’s a combination of old-school scouting and watching players – and that’s Brendan, his assistants, our scouts – with statistical analysis of players across Europe and the rest of the world.
"By bringing those two processes together you get a much more educated view of who you should and shouldn’t be buying and, perhaps as fundamentally, how much you should be paying and the structure to those contracts.
“I think we’ve had relatively good success since we deployed that methodology. We’re getting better all the time. We were very pleased with the most recent window in January with Philippe Coutinho and Daniel Sturridge.”[/article]
Liverpool transfers to be decided by committee, not Brendan Rodgers, claims Ian Ayre
[article=http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/teams/liverpool/10004873/Liverpool-transfers-to-be-decided-by-committee-not-Brendan-Rodgers-claims-Ian-Ayre.html]Ayre has offered an insight into a Liverpool transfer policy which, although no longer employing a director of football, places Rodgers as part of a recruitment team rather than accepting the traditional managerial authority to buy and sell.
Since Rodgers joined the club, Dave Fallows has joined as head of recruitment and Barry Hunter as chief scout from Manchester City, while head of analysis Michael Edwards has become a central figure in assessing targets for owners Fenway Sports Group.
Ayre said he, Rodgers, Edwards and Fallows effectively created the director of football model between them.
“We have a head of analysis, a head of recruitment, a first-team manager, myself,” Ayre said. “All of those people are all inputting into a process that delivers what a director of football would deliver.
“What we believe, and we continue to follow, is you need many people involved in the process. That doesn’t mean somebody else is picking the team for Brendan but Brendan needs to set out with his team of people which positions we want to fill and what the key targets would be for that."He has a team of people that go out and do an inordinate amount of analysis work to establish who are the best players in that position.
“Despite what people think and read, it’s not a whole bunch of guys sitting behind a computer working out who we should buy. It’s a combination of old-school scouting and watching players – and that’s Brendan, his assistants, our scouts – with statistical analysis of players across Europe and the rest of the world.
"By bringing those two processes together you get a much more educated view of who you should and shouldn’t be buying and, perhaps as fundamentally, how much you should be paying and the structure to those contracts.
“I think we’ve had relatively good success since we deployed that methodology. We’re getting better all the time. We were very pleased with the most recent window in January with Philippe Coutinho and Daniel Sturridge.”[/article]
Oh FFS, I can't believe this SHITE. Show me one fucking manager that hasn't fucked up in the market. Jesus Ross, don't you get bored tearing into your own. It's nit picking at this point. you're undermining your credibility as a decent poster with all this contrarian Eamon Dunphy posting.
The truth is of course, every manager makes a cock-up or six in signings, but once he buys players like Sturridge, Mignolet, Coutiniho, the manager should get the benefit of the doubt.
The thing with Aspas is he looked completely unsuited to the Premier League from the opening game with little show of promise.
It doesn't matter if he cost £1 million or £35 million. That's a mistake, and one which occurred at every stage of the transfer process.
It's fine, everyone makes them, but pretending it's not a mistake is just bloody stupid.
It doesn't matter if he cost £1 million or £35 million. That's a mistake, and one which occurred at every stage of the transfer process.
It's fine, everyone makes them, but pretending it's not a mistake is just bloody stupid.
I must be the only one who still thinks both Borini and Aspas could be great.
Thats probably because you're one of the few who doesnt think every player adapts in the same way, and could need more than 6 months to settle and show their potential. Which is how it is really. Not every player hits the ground running when moving to a new country.
Borini has looked really good these last few games for Sunderland imho.
Borini has looked really good these last few games for Sunderland imho.
I think that's being a little bit pedantic. On the same note, I'd argue classifying our 20M purchase of Keane as a "silly mistake", for example, is trivializing it. It was a catastrophic error in judgement.
I haven't read through the entire thread but I think Rodgers should rightly be questioned over some of his purchases this summer. We obviously missed out on a couple first choice targets for one reason or another but when you look at who we did bring in you have to say that so far it looks as though we got it badly wrong. As I said in another thread, Sterling is doing a great job of protecting his manager in this respect.
Aspas is shite. I just wish we'd stop spending good money on the likes of him and to say its admirable of Rodgers to admit his mistakes is a bit daft. Stop making mistakes. He's made more bad signings than good. £2m on the likes of Aspas is neither here nor there. £7m - £8m is plain daft.
Then again we're doing well so heh, can't complain too much.
Then again we're doing well so heh, can't complain too much.
quality and not quantity. use youth players of quality for the quantity.
Exactly. He's no better than what we have in the reserves. What's the point of an Academy? Might as well use them as third choice players and spend the cash on improving the first team. An Alberto, Aspas and Borini could give you what we spent on Suarez.
I wouldnt mind it, if we recalled borini and signed another winger/ wing forward..
The old rosco was a fantastic poster. The Benitez hating, eamon dunphy lad is a different breed
Did he get bought out by Americans?
Alberto Aquilani and Robbie Keane will work out gene, hang in there.
Very often it's the club that makes the player great, not the other way around.
According to Ross;
Rodgers is shite in the transfer market.
Has done nothing to revolutionize the scouting system.
And because he's a manager, ergo offers nothing from a tactical perspective. It's all about how much money you have remember.
Quite incredible then that this fraud had us competing for the title after finishing midtable for the last 4 years.
Rodgers is shite in the transfer market.
Has done nothing to revolutionize the scouting system.
And because he's a manager, ergo offers nothing from a tactical perspective. It's all about how much money you have remember.
Quite incredible then that this fraud had us competing for the title after finishing midtable for the last 4 years.
Who doesn't though Ross. It's not a justification, saying that everyone does it, it's the realism of football and transfers, you win some you lose some. You moaned about "buying British" because of the premium. We buy foreign players to avoid that, the downturn is you never really know how they will get on until they're here, no matter how much research you do. There's not many managers around who haven't whistled £20m away, it doesn't make it right, it's a mammoth fuck up that he must learn from, but the policy in general is and has improved, in terms of profile and prices, give or take the odd over paid for signing like Alberto. It's better than the odd over paid for player like Keane, Aquilani or Johnson.
My main issue is Mark, if everyone gets it wrong then we have to consider a totally new approach to how we evaluate players. Whatever ideas we have about projecting player performances are clearly wrong.
It's not an impossible task.
If you look at Aspas - he's scored around 50 career league goals in 6 years, most of which were played in the Spanish second division. We bought him after his best season by far, when he scored 12 in the Spanish top flight.
Only a hopeless optimist could suggest he was going to turn out to be something good with that history. That's without actually looking at him play - when I saw him at the Celtic friendly in Dublin I just didn't see anything in him that would help him succeed in the Premiership.
Now I know exactly what response someone is going to offer to the above - one mentioning a player that is the exception to the rule (Michu) but we should know that relying on our decisions also being exceptions to the rule has gotten us nowhere. But then again most people are still way off as to what the rules are. Until they realise the game has changed dramatically over the past twenty years and what used to be true about players and peak ages etc simply isn't anymore.
My other issue is, I know fuck all about football, I rarely watch anything other than us, and yet I manage to call this correctly ahead of our genius scouting and management set up. If me and a lot of other idiots can see this a mile off its hard to have much faith in our staff.
I'll clear things to for you.
He's made mistakes. Stupid ones.
We've hired new scouts, that doesn't equal a revolution. Because we still make the same mistakes.
Because he's a manager, the only thing he offers is a tactical perspective. But because he gets as much wrong as he does right, like every other manager, he's not that great.
We're challenging for a top 4 place. Not the title. Even when we were top our point setting pace would have meant we would win the league with the lowest points total for 20 odd years.
We've spent beyond our budget to get there.
Good thing they didnt listen to the brilliant idea about selling Suarez. He'll never improve or be a goalscorer that lad.
If you're negative to every signing we make you're bound to get some right.
The thing is its way to early to make a judgement regardless as he's been here 6 months and played in 10 league games. Only an idiot would say its already to late for him. The same goes for Alberto.
New country, language, lifestyle, teammates, manager and intensity of the PL. Just look at Lamela. One of the biggest talents around when he was tearing it up for Roma. He isnt shite or overrated, but he needs time to settle.
The mistake Rodgers has made though is that we're not in a position to spend 13 mill on two players who could need 1 year to settle.
We needed players that could go straight into the first team, or had the proven quality and experience to adapt quickly. Mostly because our squad and first team cant have 2 players that wont contribute or that Rodgers dont feel are ready.
I dont think Rodgers will do this again. Tbh I think he's done more good signings than bad. Easily.
The top scouts in Europe seem to think Aspas would be a great signing for most Premiership teams. But to get going he needs games, and when you're not getting that you just stagnate.
If you're negative to every signing we make you're bound to get some right.
The thing is its way to early to make a judgement regardless as he's been here 6 months and played in 10 league games. Only an idiot would say its already to late for him. The same goes for Alberto.
New country, language, lifestyle, teammates, manager and intensity of the PL. Just look at Lamela. One of the biggest talents around when he was tearing it up for Roma. He isnt shite or overrated, but he needs time to settle.
The mistake Rodgers has made though is that we're not in a position to spend 13 mill on two players who could need 1 year to settle.
We needed players that could go straight into the first team, or had the proven quality and experience to adapt quickly. Mostly because our squad and first team cant have 2 players that wont contribute or that Rodgers dont feel are ready.
I dont think Rodgers will do this again. Tbh I think he's done more good signings than bad. Easily.
The top scouts in Europe seem to think Aspas would be a great signing for most Premiership teams. But to get going he needs games, and when you're not getting that you just stagnate.
In fairness, aren't we re-evalutating how we approach transfers? £7m on Aspas, a 26 year old who'd just had a successful season in La Liga was a reasonable gamble, if it's doesn't work out we cut our losses of say, £3m. That might seem extortionate, but in the grand scheme of the top level playing field, it probably isn't. Borini was 20/21, £12m on a player who's highly rated in Italy and could probably return home at a similar loss, or he could stay on loan at Sunderland for the rest of the season and go some way to proving he can play a part for us. They're not criminally dead cert write offs. Like I said, the Aspas punt whatever you think about his record, is one of those cases where we needed to bolster the squad and we took a gamble. If this Valencia story is true, at least the approach is that we're recognising we need to salvage something, let him go to a top tier Spanish side where he's clearly more suited, see the season out and warrant a better fee in the Summer, than the one we'll get for him getting splinters in his arse.
I do agree we need to learn and we still have alot of catching up to do in the transfer market, but you're not really acknowledging that we have taken steps in the right direction. Everyone has to make squad punts and gambles in this game and that's where you find the occasional gem and the odd fuck up, it happens, I'm not going to crucify him because the back up player to players like Sturridge and Coutinho (who he bought) didn't quite cut it. If there's one gripe I have with managers over the last few years, it's perhaps that it might be more prudent to give youth a chance, while waiting for the right player to become available, rather than buying a stop gap - no arguments from me there, but by and large, we're alot better than we were. Rodgers is learning too and it'd be unrealistic to not expect the occasional mistake. We've got a promising young side, if we can continue to compound that and add players of similar ilk to Coutinho, Sturridge, Allen (to a degree) and Sakho, then we're going the right way.
Lets not forget aswell, this forum is littered with idiots who froth off the mouth everytime we don't spend for spending sakes, have a read through some of the hysterics in the Summer about Spurs and Arsenal. Hindsight is great and all that.
It's a bit limp wristed saying we've gone over budget aswell, you said a couple of Summers back that we'd have X amount to spend, based on sales, income, expenditure etc, and we blew that theory out of the water. No one really knows how well fixed we are and how much we're under/over spending.
If only Rodgers was good at statistical probability - he'd be able to understand the game better.
The galling thing is that the Borini, aspas, alberto and illori deals (this summer) have all yet to produce anything tangible and in a transition season (for our rivals) where our chances of winning the title were disproportionately higher than before, we could have made a massive difference with one or two major signings. We DID try, Willian, The Armenian bloke and Costa, but we could not pull off the scoops. Either we did nto offer to pay enough or miscalculated our appeal, whatever the reason we ended up with some duds who have added nothing (so far!).
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