Andy Caroll's "Fitness"

[Y1]

He showed one glimpse of his threat in Yesterday's game. A powerful header. If vemalen was not that good he could have been more of a threat. And the criticism of Kuyt is not fully justified. I find him calm whenever he had the ball. Fair enough he did misplaced some passes but then almost everyone did.

 

[Portly]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46526.msg1383502#msg1383502 date=1313883213]
You've got it spot on, Portly when you say you hate watching him...it sounds harsh but it's true.
[/quote]

It wasn't I who said that! I have no problem watching Carroll and appreciate the qualities he brings to the team. I think what we are seeing in this thread is the general "heightism" that we get every time Liverpool sign a tall player. The fans don't like the look of them. They prefer small, nimble players. In their time, Tony Hately, John Toshack and of course Peter Crouch all encountered contempt from the supporters.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=46526.msg1383119#msg1383119 date=1313852099]
[quote author=Modo link=topic=46526.msg1383112#msg1383112 date=1313851930]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=46526.msg1383095#msg1383095 date=1313851078]
[quote author=Frogfish link=topic=46526.msg1383067#msg1383067 date=1313850276]
[quote author=zlatan18 link=topic=46526.msg1383037#msg1383037 date=1313849398]
Two games into the season and look at everyone jumping on his back but then sucking his cock when he scores.

He will come good, he is good, we have a new team pretty much everyone is getting use to the way we play and everything so get off his back and stop being shit supporters.

If he scored the header szcency saved, everyone would've been going on about how he is the best thing since sliced bread
[/quote]

You give Modo a good name.
[/quote]

I couldn't careless if i made him look like Jesus, this forum has so many shit fans that jump on someones back instead of giving them time show what they got
[/quote]
I'm thinking that this is directed at me somehow... 😉
I've only got Adam and Henderson on my shit-list so far. Adam is at least trying to crawl himself out of there. Henderson not so much.
[/quote]

Its not directed at anyone but the people that constantly have a sook about players and then the week after have a good game and they cant stop sucking the players dick
[/quote]

We all dream of a team of Carroll-ghers.

You actually do have a point, but in your case you shouldnt bleat on about it.

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=46526.msg1383500#msg1383500 date=1313882327]
another thing that irritates me is people saying to forget the fee because we 'had to' sign a replacement for Torres, and then on the other hand that we shouldn't judge him on last season because his fitness meant he should never have been used. it's ridiculous. he was injured, and never likely to be ready to perform as a Torres replacement in the last few months of the season. on top of that, we had the suarez signing set up - more than enough replacement to see us through to the summer. there was no reason at all to rush to blow the Torres money.

also, i don't believe for a second that we only got the £50m for Torres because of the price for carroll. Torres is a world class striker, who on the form of his first 3 seasons with us, was worth close to £50m. ok, knock off £10m or so due to his post world cup malaise, but then you can add that back from abramovich's long-term infatuation with the player: that's where the £50m comes from, not this 'andy carroll + £15m' bollocks. the way i see it, yes, we got lucky that some goofy billionaire was willing to pay over the odds for Torres, but that's no bloody good if you go straight out and hand it over to mike fucking ashley.

i said it at the time, it was a fucking hare-brained bit of business, regardless of whether he comes good or not.
[/quote]

Agree with tis, but I think it was more desperation than anything else.

I do think the money should have been used better though

 

[Dirkus_Circus]

Can we please change the thread title to "Armchair Football Managers Making Knee Jerk Reactions Re: Andy Carroll"

TIA

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=46526.msg1383475#msg1383475 date=1313878390]
Just for the fun of it, go on youtube and search Andy Carroll welcome to liverpool. Its by MilanKakaBaros. Thats the player we signed. We just need to give him time to get his confidence going and sharpness and fitness levels on top.

A fucking Beast.
[/quote]

A YouTube compilation? You're falling back on a YouTube compilation video to prove Andy Carroll is worth £35 million? What about Djib Cisse's YT video or, better yet, Mark Gonzalez! He looks amazing in his video.

 

[Hansern]

You still dont get it, and at this rate you probably never will so we should just leave it at that.

The youtube thingy was to show his goals in the PREMIER LEAGUE, were he plays his fotball with us. He scored 13 goals in 24 games last season. Is that shit or not a goal threat in the PREMIER LEAGUE WERE WE ARE GOING TO PLAY ASWELL?

Gonzalez clips were from other leagues and had no bearing on what he could achieve over here.
Carroll has proved himself against the other top teams and us ffs.

Can you see now that you're talking out you're ass Stu?

 

[Portly]

This thread seems strange in the circumstances that we just beat Arsenal for the first time at the Emirates Stadium. Let's have a bit of positivity guys. 🙂

 

[Molbystwin]

Carroll still needs time to find his feet but his fee and the contrast made when Suarez and Meirelles come on and tikki takki the fuck out of opponents will rightly leave people bemused, if you can ignore the why's and wherefores of his signing he does provide a different option for us and he will get goals... It's obvious he was massively overpriced but he is not a busted flush at all. I'm not worried at all about him, nor am I pissed off about beating Arsenal away without actually playing anywhere near our best to do so.

I think it's gonna be a cracking season for us.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=46526.msg1383615#msg1383615 date=1313919488]
You still dont get it, and at this rate you probably never will so we should just leave it at that.

The youtube thingy was to show his goals in the PREMIER LEAGUE, were he plays his fotball with us. He scored 13 goals in 24 games last season. Is that shit or not a goal threat in the PREMIER LEAGUE WERE WE ARE GOING TO PLAY ASWELL?

Gonzalez clips were from other leagues and had no bearing on what he could achieve over here.
Carroll has proved himself against the other top teams and us ffs.

Can you see now that you're talking out you're ass Stu?
[/quote]

Hmmmm, that last was a bit fucking childish to be honest Hansern.

You think Carroll is a proven Premiership striker based half of one season at Newcastle. I choose to judge him from what I have seen in a Liverpool shirt. That is all I give a fuck about, Liverpool. Now, if Carroll reproduces that tiny, little purple patch over say, the entirety of his career at domestic, European & international level, then he may well prove to be a good bit of business by us. But he wont because he lacks so many fundamental skills to consistently perform at the highest level.

You've very casually asked me and others to 'forget the fee we paid'. Why should we do that? I am judging Carroll's performances and directly relating them to his transfer fee. Like we all do with all signings. So, in doing that I see only one outcome. He is the white Emile Heskey.

 

[spider-Neil]

truth is we paid over the odds for carroll because we wanted to tell the world we're still a big club. for me carroll is thhe best header of the ball in the league and unlike the target men of our recent past uses his strength and his power. he is nothing like heskey, heskey was and is a pussy.

 

[Stulikesdrums]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383680#msg1383680 date=1313926468]
truth is we paid over the odds for carroll because we wanted to tell the world we're still a big club. for me carroll is thhe best header of the ball in the league and unlike the target men of our recent past uses his strength and his power. he is nothing like heskey, heskey was and is a pussy.
[/quote]

The best header of the ball in the league who has scored a header for us yet. Great!!

There are far better ways to announce 'we're still a big club' than spending all that cash on a known pisshead.

This Carroll thing is annoying but at the end of it, if we do manage to coax some match winning performances out of him then great, that is what we all want. It just seems very unlikely right now, if not impossible.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383692#msg1383692 date=1313927055]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383680#msg1383680 date=1313926468]
truth is we paid over the odds for carroll because we wanted to tell the world we're still a big club. for me carroll is thhe best header of the ball in the league and unlike the target men of our recent past uses his strength and his power. he is nothing like heskey, heskey was and is a pussy.
[/quote]

The best header of the ball in the league who has scored a header for us yet. Great!!

There are far better ways to announce 'we're still a big club' than spending all that cash on a known pisshead.

This Carroll thing is annoying but at the end of it, if we do manage to coax some match winning performances out of him then great, that is what we all want. It just seems very unlikely right now, if not impossible.
[/quote]

explain the man city home game then

 

[SaintGeorge67]

It came off the defender.

 

[singlerider]

Has anybody wondered if it might be a bit of a mental thing with him - y'know, he was a Geordie playing for his boyhood team and loving it. Then he was sold (allegedly kind of against his will) for a massive sum that will be a millstone around his neck.

Perhaps he's a bit disillusioned and not really enjoying his game? I mean, I dunno - I still haven't seen enough if him yet, but by all accounts so far he's a different player to the Newcastle Andy Carroll

 

[spider-Neil]

people are entitled to their opinion of course but I'd hope it would take more than a handful of games to form it.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

You keep saying this spider yet didn't you claim suso should be in the first team after about 3 under 18 appearances?

 

[Modo]

Make of it what you want but for me it's pretty simple.
Provide him with decent chances and he'll score.
He just needs a bit of luck. Once the first one hits the back of the net, I'm absolutely sure more will follow.
And yes we can afford to have "ticky-tacky" players around him, he just gives us another option. Just don't play "ticky-tacky" with him, that's the key.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Agreed modo, though I'd like to see him prove he can create his own chances rather than everyhing being put on a plate for him.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46526.msg1383718#msg1383718 date=1313928213]
You keep saying this spider yet didn't you claim suso should be in the first team after about 3 under 18 appearances?
[/quote]

I said he was the best prospect in the resevers not that he should be in the first team, and yes I guess that was a snap judgement (probably based on seeing utter shit in the reserves for years).

 

[Modo]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46526.msg1383720#msg1383720 date=1313928406]
Agreed modo, though I'd like to see him prove he can create his own chances rather than everyhing being put on a plate for him.
[/quote]
I'd love that too, but he was never that type of player. Carroll for me is a finisher/target man. He's no Torres.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46526.msg1383720#msg1383720 date=1313928406]
Agreed modo, though I'd like to see him prove he can create his own chances rather than everyhing being put on a plate for him.
[/quote]

carroll is what he is and we should use that, we should be flooding the penalty box when the ball is played safe in the knowledge that carroll will win the challenge. he may not create or himself but he can create for others and when defenders get attracted to him in the box it will create space for the likes of suarez.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=46526.msg1383510#msg1383510 date=1313884163]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=46526.msg1383502#msg1383502 date=1313883213]
You've got it spot on, Portly when you say you hate watching him...it sounds harsh but it's true.
[/quote]

It wasn't I who said that! I have no problem watching Carroll and appreciate the qualities he brings to the team. I think what we are seeing in this thread is the general "heightism" that we get every time Liverpool sign a tall player. The fans don't like the look of them. They prefer small, nimble players. In their time, Tony Hately, John Toshack and of course Peter Crouch all encountered contempt from the supporters.
[/quote]

Got the wrong man, apologies.

 

[HC]

He occupied Vermaelan for the every minute he was on the pitch. That's arguably not a ban thing, you could say that if Suarez,gerrard or ming were on the pitch, the space Carroll created would have been better utilized.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=46526.msg1383775#msg1383775 date=1313931243]
He occupied Vermaelan for the every minute he was on the pitch. That's arguably not a ban thing, you could say that if Suarez,gerrard or ming were on the pitch, the space Carroll created would have been better utilized.


[/quote]

that's the point that a lot of people miss, 'oh vermaelan had him in his back pocket' (still had a shot on target, though) that's arsenal's best defender out of the game so we should be looking to exploit that gap.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46526.msg1383711#msg1383711 date=1313927900]
Has anybody wondered if it might be a bit of a mental thing with him - y'know, he was a Geordie playing for his boyhood team and loving it. Then he was sold (allegedly kind of against his will) for a massive sum that will be a millstone around his neck.

Perhaps he's a bit disillusioned and not really enjoying his game? I mean, I dunno - I still haven't seen enough if him yet, but by all accounts so far he's a different player to the Newcastle Andy Carroll
[/quote]

You've raised an interesting point. Maybe it's a confidence issue? At Newcastle, he gave defenders the run around most weeks, he was too powerful for them but he looks weak and hesitant for us. That's my biggest gripe with Carroll at the minute, he's a completely different player to what he was at Newcastle.

From his interviews and pics etc, he seems to be loving it at LFC...always joking and smiling. Seems to be a great lad but there's something not right with him when he's on the pitch. Hopefully he finds form asap, wonder if it's worth keeping him in for the Exeter game, chane to get a goal or two and obviously regain his confidence and swagger.

 

[HC]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383779#msg1383779 date=1313931455]
[quote author=Hardcastle link=topic=46526.msg1383775#msg1383775 date=1313931243]
He occupied Vermaelan for the every minute he was on the pitch. That's arguably not a ban thing, you could say that if Suarez,gerrard or ming were on the pitch, the space Carroll created would have been better utilized.


[/quote]

that's the point that a lot of people miss, 'oh vermaelan had him in his back pocket' (still had a shot on target, though) that's arsenal's best defender out of the game so we should be looking to exploit that gap.
[/quote]

Totally agree mate. He made space really well for his team mates yesterday; MOTD highlighted a few of the occasions too.

I'd like to see Downing, Suarez, Carroll, Ming and Kuyt all start our next match.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Portly link=topic=46526.msg1383434#msg1383434 date=1313874264]
I do wish people wouldn't keep on complaining that we over-paid for Carroll.

We over-paid for Carroll because we were desperate to sell El Knobbo to Chelski for the once-in-a-lifetime price of £50 million and we couldn't do that unless we signed a quality replacement striker before the deadline.

Taken all round, I reckon it was a superb bit of business.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree.

Carroll wasn't even fit from January onwards so the explanation that we needed a 'quality replacement' falls down. We easily could waited until the summer where we could have got better value for money on Carroll or someone else. He was a panic buy.

I do, however, think there's a potentially unstoppable player in Carroll, but I have plenty of concerns that we'll never see it.

 

[iseered]

[quote author=singlerider link=topic=46526.msg1383711#msg1383711 date=1313927900]
Has anybody wondered if it might be a bit of a mental thing with him - y'know, he was a Geordie playing for his boyhood team and loving it. Then he was sold (allegedly kind of against his will) for a massive sum that will be a millstone around his neck.

Perhaps he's a bit disillusioned and not really enjoying his game? I mean, I dunno - I still haven't seen enough if him yet, but by all accounts so far he's a different player to the Newcastle Andy Carroll
[/quote]
This is exactly my read. It is not fitness. He was happy at Newcastle, but not with us.

 

[Red Mullet]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=46526.msg1383905#msg1383905 date=1313947984]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=46526.msg1383434#msg1383434 date=1313874264]
I do wish people wouldn't keep on complaining that we over-paid for Carroll.

We over-paid for Carroll because we were desperate to sell El Knobbo to Chelski for the once-in-a-lifetime price of £50 million and we couldn't do that unless we signed a quality replacement striker before the deadline.

Taken all round, I reckon it was a superb bit of business.
[/quote]

I respectfully disagree.

Carroll wasn't even fit from January onwards so the explanation that we needed a 'quality replacement' falls down. We easily could waited until the summer where we could have got better value for money on Carroll or someone else. He was a panic buy.

I do, however, think there's a potentially unstoppable player in Carroll, but I have plenty of concerns that we'll never see it.
[/quote]


Of course it was a superb bit of business!. 56 million for Torres and Babel? Brilliant!


If Suarez was 35 million and Carroll was 25 million, would people be happier? The total spend there is 60 million which is no different to 35 million for Carroll and 25 million for Suarez. Net spend is 4 million for LFC and we've got rid off a player that never was going to hit his potential and player that didn't want to be there.


It's all good!