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Andy Caroll's "Fitness"

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[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46526.msg1383416#msg1383416 date=1313872923]
Possession has no correlation with winning, so why concentrate on it ?

Accuracy in the final third is what it's all about, so it probably isnt surprising that we won when Raul and Luis came on
[/quote]

True, but the game changed with the red card aswell. It gave us more space in midfield and time on the ball. Carroll gives us options, if you're going to win anything we need more than a plan A.

According to the match goers he worked very hard upfront on his own, but got isolated as the other players weren't quick enough to follow up around him. He'll thrive this season with Suarez playing off him.
 
The first half I was fuming he was upfront alone, Kuyt, Henderson & Downing were always either wide or supplying the cross, he was invariably in the box alone.
 
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=46526.msg1383424#msg1383424 date=1313873717]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=46526.msg1383416#msg1383416 date=1313872923]
Possession has no correlation with winning, so why concentrate on it ?

Accuracy in the final third is what it's all about, so it probably isnt surprising that we won when Raul and Luis came on
[/quote]

True, but the game changed with the red card aswell. It gave us more space in midfield and time on the ball. Carroll gives us options, if you're going to win anything we need more than a plan A.

According to the match goers he worked very hard upfront on his own, but got isolated as the other players weren't quick enough to follow up around him. He'll thrive this season with Suarez playing off him.


[/quote]


Exactly, hansern
 
I do wish people wouldn't keep on complaining that we over-paid for Carroll.

We over-paid for Carroll because we were desperate to sell El Knobbo to Chelski for the once-in-a-lifetime price of £50 million and we couldn't do that unless we signed a quality replacement striker before the deadline.

Taken all round, I reckon it was a superb bit of business.
 
I think it was Alan Hansen that said if we sold Torres for £25m and bought Carroll for £10m, rather than £50m and £35m, would anyone have questioned it?


Before anyone says it, I realise that we still chose to pay £35m for him etc.
 
[quote author=Portly link=topic=46526.msg1383434#msg1383434 date=1313874264]
I do wish people wouldn't keep on complaining that we over-paid for Carroll.

We over-paid for Carroll because we were desperate to sell El Knobbo to Chelski for the once-in-a-lifetime price of £50 million and we couldn't do that unless we signed a quality replacement striker before the deadline.

Taken all round, I reckon it was a superb bit of business.
[/quote]

Portly, he is 8th or 9th most expensive footballer OF ALL TIME.
He carries zero goal threat and after seven months he is still not fit and just fumbles his way through games pissing & moaning at everyone around him.
I reckon people have more than enough reason to be unhappy with this transfer. I know I am. I fucking hate watching him.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46526.msg1383439#msg1383439 date=1313874438]
I think it was Alan Hansen that said if we sold Torres for £25m and bought Carroll for £10m, rather than £50m and £35m, would anyone have questioned it?


Before anyone says it, I realise that we still chose to pay £35m for him etc.
[/quote]

id be fucked off if we sold torres for 25m!
 
I'll start to get worried if he remains shit against Bolton.


I'm currently in my Bruno Cheyrou/Anthony Le Tallec/Harry Kewell type "he'll come good" phase. Albeit those phases lasted several years.
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46526.msg1383444#msg1383444 date=1313874890]
I'll start to get worried if he remains shit against Bolton.


I'm currently in my Bruno Cheyrou/Anthony Le Tallec/Harry Kewell type "he'll come good" phase. Albeit those phases lasted several years.
[/quote]

think i'm the same. he just needs a goal under his belt and a run of fitness
 
[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=46526.msg1383444#msg1383444 date=1313874890]
I'll start to get worried if he remains shit against Bolton.


I'm currently in my Bruno Cheyrou/Anthony Le Tallec/Harry Kewell type "he'll come good" phase. Albeit those phases lasted several years.
[/quote]

Tony Le Tallec is gonna come good mate, you watch.
World class fottballer.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383441#msg1383441 date=1313874727]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=46526.msg1383434#msg1383434 date=1313874264]
I do wish people wouldn't keep on complaining that we over-paid for Carroll.

We over-paid for Carroll because we were desperate to sell El Knobbo to Chelski for the once-in-a-lifetime price of £50 million and we couldn't do that unless we signed a quality replacement striker before the deadline.

Taken all round, I reckon it was a superb bit of business.
[/quote]

Portly, he is 8th or 9th most expensive footballer OF ALL TIME.
He carries zero goal threat and after seven months he is still not fit and just fumbles his way through games pissing & moaning at everyone around him.
I reckon people have more than enough reason to be unhappy with this transfer. I know I am. I fucking hate watching him.
[/quote]

zero goal threat? excuse me, what?
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383456#msg1383456 date=1313875544]
Do you want me to type the sentence out again?
[/quote]

I must have imagined him forcing that save out of the arsenal keeper today, or that goal that was wrongly chalked off last week, or...actually I'll stop there.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383457#msg1383457 date=1313875691]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383456#msg1383456 date=1313875544]
Do you want me to type the sentence out again?
[/quote]

I must have imagined him forcing that save out of the arsenal keeper today, or that goal that was wrongly chalked off last week, or...actually I'll stop there.
[/quote]

One header right at the keeper? It was never going to be a goal. His two goals ( in seven months ) were a hard shot right at a keeper that should have been stopped and a header that actually came off a defenders shoulder. He's fucking shit, Spidey.
 
tombstone.jpg
 
The header you mentioned has just been on MOTD. If that had of gone in you'd have to put it down as a keeper error. It was an easy save made to look difficult.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383459#msg1383459 date=1313875954]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383457#msg1383457 date=1313875691]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383456#msg1383456 date=1313875544]
Do you want me to type the sentence out again?
[/quote]

I must have imagined him forcing that save out of the arsenal keeper today, or that goal that was wrongly chalked off last week, or...actually I'll stop there.
[/quote]

One header right at the keeper? It was never going to be a goal. His two goals ( in seven months ) were a hard shot right at a keeper that should have been stopped and a header that actually came off a defenders shoulder. He's fucking shit, Spidey.
[/quote]

each to their own, I'm glad we've got him.

two points

1. he 22 years of age, you'd think there is more to come from him

2. I think carroll's best performance was against us in the newcastle game. if that was carroll at 100% I think he probably at 80% now (or less).

even when he is ineffectual he is still sucking defenders towards him and we need to use that, we also need to believe he is going to him his aerial battles and anticipate when the ball is going to land. I really have no problems with carroll.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383459#msg1383459 date=1313875954]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383457#msg1383457 date=1313875691]
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383456#msg1383456 date=1313875544]
Do you want me to type the sentence out again?
[/quote]

I must have imagined him forcing that save out of the arsenal keeper today, or that goal that was wrongly chalked off last week, or...actually I'll stop there.
[/quote]

One header right at the keeper? It was never going to be a goal. His two goals ( in seven months ) were a hard shot right at a
keeper that should have been stopped and a header that actually came off a defenders shoulder. He's fucking shit, Spidey.
[/quote]

If you believe that Stu then Im amazed tbh. He shouldnt have been involved for us last season in the capacity he was used. Even Kenny said so a couple of weeks ago. He's two games into a new season and is still finding his feet with the rest of the team.

As for the shite and no goal threat part I suggest you watch some highlights of his goals from last season and the entire game against us.

He'll be a beast for us, just give him time.
 
Beast? Unlikely. I just can't see where all this ability is.
One thing is for damn sure, he'll never ever ever be worth £35 million. Never.

His attitude also fucking sucks balls. I wouldn't care if he was banging in the goals but he isn't. So far, unless the ball is placed on his toe or on his head he is not going to score. £35 million, it's embarrassing we paid that much for him.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=46526.msg1383466#msg1383466 date=1313876280]
each to their own, I'm glad we've got him. I really have no problems with carroll.
[/quote]

Glad? We could have had two quality first team players for the money.
 
The point about him "banging in the goals" is key.


Score some goals please Andy and no one will be arsed about the other stuff.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383469#msg1383469 date=1313877098]
Beast? Unlikely. I just can't see where all this ability is.
One thing is for damn sure, he'll never ever ever be worth £35 million. Never.

His attitude also fucking sucks balls. I wouldn't care if he was banging in the goals but he isn't. So far, unless the ball is placed on his toe or on his head he is not going to score. £35 million, it's embarrassing we paid that much for him.
[/quote]

Forget the fee. Its paid, it was done 8 months ago, we got raped but move on.
Have a look at how he played for Newcastle, thats the player we signed.

If you cant see it - fine. Then there is nothing more to discuss. But he defo isnt shite. Far from it aswell.
 
Just for the fun of it, go on youtube and search Andy Carroll welcome to liverpool. Its by MilanKakaBaros. Thats the player we signed. We just need to give him time to get his confidence going and sharpness and fitness levels on top.

A fucking Beast.
 
That's great and everything but scoring goals for another team doesn't make you a good signing or a 'beast'.

I think I've said several times since he arrived that I'm baffled by the transfer (nevermind the fee), but I'm hopeful it'll all work out. So far remain baffled and I'm having to fall back on hoping it'll all magically just come good. I've not really read anything in this thread that appears to be based on much more than hope or optimism either.
 
The fee we paid for him is ridiculous, there's no denying that. But then the fee we paid for Suarez is ridiculous too, only in the opposite sense. Personally I think they balance each other out - you win some, you lose some. Anyway, I'm happier with Carroll and Suarez than I was with Babel and Torres.

As for Carroll's role in the team, I'm not sure. I think the best thing about him is that he's potentially a good source of direct, 'cheap' goals. He allows us to score the kind of goals that Everton usually score against us - and which we have rarely scored at all in the past 20-odd years.

Heskey didn't have the necessary aggression to be a beast in the air, and Crouch didn't have the physique. Carroll has both, and I do think he's the kind of player who, if we improve our service to him (and have a nipper striker like Suarez close by him to pick up his knockdowns etc) will go through patches of being unplayable.

Having said that, he still doesn't look fit, which is worrying, as is his reported lifestyle. For the moment, I'd be tempted to use him as an impact sub, and if that bothers him, maybe he'll work a bit harder in training - and drink a bit less in clubs - and end up fulfilling his potential.
 
another thing that irritates me is people saying to forget the fee because we 'had to' sign a replacement for torres, and then on the other hand that we shouldn't judge him on last season because his fitness meant he should never have been used. it's ridiculous. he was injured, and never likely to be ready to perform as a torres replacement in the last few months of the season. on top of that, we had the suarez signing set up - more than enough replacement to see us through to the summer. there was no reason at all to rush to blow the torres money.

also, i don't believe for a second that we only got the £50m for torres because of the price for carroll. torres is a world class striker, who on the form of his first 3 seasons with us, was worth close to £50m. ok, knock off £10m or so due to his post world cup malaise, but then you can add that back from abramovich's long-term infatuation with the player: that's where the £50m comes from, not this 'andy carroll + £15m' bollocks. the way i see it, yes, we got lucky that some goofy billionaire was willing to pay over the odds for torres, but that's no bloody good if you go straight out and hand it over to mike fucking ashley.

i said it at the time, it was a fucking hare-brained bit of business, regardless of whether he comes good or not.
 
[quote author=Stulikesdrums link=topic=46526.msg1383441#msg1383441 date=1313874727]
[quote author=Portly link=topic=46526.msg1383434#msg1383434 date=1313874264]
I do wish people wouldn't keep on complaining that we over-paid for Carroll.

We over-paid for Carroll because we were desperate to sell El Knobbo to Chelski for the once-in-a-lifetime price of £50 million and we couldn't do that unless we signed a quality replacement striker before the deadline.

Taken all round, I reckon it was a superb bit of business.
[/quote]

Portly, he is 8th or 9th most expensive footballer OF ALL TIME.
He carries zero goal threat and after seven months he is still not fit and just fumbles his way through games pissing & moaning at everyone around him.
I reckon people have more than enough reason to be unhappy with this transfer. I know I am. I fucking hate watching him.
[/quote]

Agree with every word. I was proper excited when we signed Carroll based on his performances in a mediocre Newcastle United side. He looked a real talent at the Geordies - strong, aggressive but in a good way, a clinical finisher, an intelligent runner. Sorry but since he's pulled on a Liverpool shirt, he's been quite the opposite...people can point to the fact Andy was injured when he signed for us, fair does, but it doesn't take that long for someone to get their match fitness back. It's time we put that excuse to bed.

You've got it spot on, Portly when you say you hate watching him...it sounds harsh but it's true. I don't seem to remember Carroll moaning every 5 seconds when he played for Newcastle? It's a sign of someone that's frustrated with his own game. not the right way to go about changing his fortunes though...how's about work harder Andy? Show a bit of fight? Don't stand still in the box? Do the fucking basics and take it from there.

In summary, i'm a massive Andy Carroll fan and hope to god he comes good, but i'd be lying if i said i'm happy with his performances and not worried about him.
 
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