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Agger's warning

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[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178928#msg1178928 date=1285059679]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178914#msg1178914 date=1285058675]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=41972.msg1178883#msg1178883 date=1285056167]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178880#msg1178880 date=1285055656]
Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.
[/quote]

Oh dear!! Are you on acid or something??? Agger is one of the best central defenders in the Premiership and no one is building a team around him you sap! We build a team around Gerrard and Torres. He's a top class defender!

Have you heard him moan under Rafa?? Have you??? Bloody hell! What are you?
[/quote]

Oh do be quiet you annoying little person.

I have said he is a decent player, but he's not as great as you seem to think.

And did he moan under Benitez? Well, half the time he was injured (apparently) so not really much to moan about there. The rest of the time, hmm, let's see shall we.

Well this is what he said in September 2008: "I'm not satisfied with the fact that I'm not playing but I have to cope"

And again in January 2009 when the club didn't extend his contract quickly enough: "Honestly, I don't have any clue if they want to extend this contract."

Then a month later he was at it again, this time about not playing again: "If I don't play, it's untenable. My situation is that Rafa Benitez doesn't want to let me play - it irritates me when I don't play.''

Yeah, Agger never moans ever does he Glock?


[/quote]
No player in the Premiership will be satisfied when they are not playing? What's the point?
[/quote]

I quite agree, but I was countering the claim made by Glock that Agger did not moan under Benitez. Clearly he did.

What I will say though is that different players approach this in different ways. Some get their heads down and try to get back in, whereas some moan to the media.
I have no time at all for the latter approach as this never helps them or the club, and it doesn't do a lot to suggest Agger has these 'leadership' qualities that you say he has.

He's a decent player without a doubt, but he also seems to be a moaning little cunt who, when the club is clearly struggling, thinks its a good time to go on TV and slag off the new manager.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41972.msg1178929#msg1178929 date=1285059738]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178886#msg1178886 date=1285056828]
The argument to sell Agger beacuse he's 'a luxury in our current situation' does my head in.

Are we indeed becoming Fulhams fans too?

A club of our stature need the best players around and if they're good on the ball too that doesn't disqualify them one bit either.

I know Agger's been bigged up also above his own levels but can we please stop all this his a poor defender shite. He is absolutely not. He may have his flaws, in the air for one, but otherwise he's by a mile the most accomplished defender we've got overall. He's not Carra when it comes to attitude, guts and sheer determination (at least not yet) and he isn't quite as strong as Skrtel perhaps but he's the most accomplished one. Everyone outside Liverpool with half a footballing-brain would agree on this.

So yes we actually SHOULD build our defense around him as Carra is not getting any younger and Skrtel at best is a very decent squad-player. This is why I'm getting increasingly upset with him beeing benched only to be used as Konchesky's back up and I can surely understand his frustrations about it too.

Not saying he should've aired them so soon (or at all) but I can understand where he's coming form.

The most scary apart of it all though is the comments about Roy's preferences in defense. I don't like the sound of that one bit and if there's one thing it's not then it's Liverpool-like. Imagine if Alan Hansen (not saying Agger's his class but there are similiarites for everyone to see) was benched to make way for someone with more grit and power? I know times where different back then but we never should forget that we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and we are allowed to field 'luxury-players' as long as they are not a liability.

If Agger is indeed beeing lined up to be sold as it seems a lot on here wouldn't mind much *shivers* then be it and I'll bet you that the big ones will be lining up to secure his services. Because he's very good with potential to be awesome. But of course he needs to be played - and not out of position.

I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed he won't start against Northampton as LB. Then better not at all.
[/quote]

You do make me cringe when you go off on these tirades about Agger. The truth is, Agger has shown very little improvement in his time here, and the longer that continues, the more it looks like hype rather than potential. Couple that with his injury record, and I'd be willing to bet money that if Agger was put up for sale, none of the top four would be interested in him, unless it was for a significantly deflated fee. That's because he represents a risk, and one that many would be reluctant to take. It's hardly worked out for us thus far, has it?

Of course, a large part of the problem is that we can't afford to have two defenders who are weak in the air. So unless you're partnering Agger with Sami's clone, then whichever partnership we field, it's going to be susceptible to being beaten in the air. I'm inclined to think that Carragher remains our best defender, so we should therefore be looking for another defender to partner him who dominates in the air. If Agger is still here when Carra finally gives way, then perhaps he'd be the ideal partner for this player.

Until then, he really needs to do his talking on the pitch.

[/quote]
I'll tirade whenever feeling appropriate. You can cringe too if you like.

I've said my piece and I agree he should first and foremost do his talking on the pitch. To make that happen he has got to be on it though.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178926#msg1178926 date=1285059551]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178915#msg1178915 date=1285058709]
How is he our most accomplished defender? Because hes better on the ball? Hes no better than the others in the air or in the tackle.

If skrtel or carra were Danish then the same degree of arguement for them playing would be put forward.

The worst thing is, if we had a good Danish right back I wouldnt be championing johnson just because hes English!

[/quote]
Mark, please.

You make it sound like I'm the only person on the Internet who's of the opinion that Agger is a very good defender. I'm not.

He's better on the ball than any other defender we've got. His positioning is miles better than Skrtel's and he's our only goal-threat from the back as well. He is better in the air than both Carra and Skrtel although that doesn't say much. He's got leadership-attributes and he's never affraid of getting stuck in.

Carra for me is still out best out-and-out defender but he's not the most accomplished one.

The Danish-thingy part. I've only ever suggested that we should buy Agger, Saric, Kjær, Eriksen and Bendtner. It's obvious however that I know a player like Poulsen well good and when we were linked with him I could seee why. I'm not blind towards players flaws because of their nationality nor anything else but it REALLY baffles me that Agger is beeing left out of our current starting line-up. At least I thought he should be given the chance to make the spot his own.
[/quote]

That still doesnt qualify as him being our most accomplished defender, because hes a goal threat. The opinion over his positioning, heading and ' ability to get stuck in' are debatable, marginal and exaggerated, once again. Hes injury prone and his goal threat is still an average of one a season, though that wont stop the usual suspects from bigging him up into something he's still only shown the potential to be, on too few ocassions.
 
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178937#msg1178937 date=1285060274]


That still doesnt qualify as him being our most accomplished defender, because hes a goal threat. The opinion over his positioning, heading and ' ability to get stuck in' are debatable, marginal and exaggerated, once again. Hes injury prone and his goal threat is still an average of one a season, though that wont stop the usual suspects from bigging him up into something he's still only shown the potential to be, on too few ocassions.
[/quote]

Given that his main cheerleaders seem to be KHL (president of the Agger fanclub), rage and Glock I think that pretty much says it all doesn't it?
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178933#msg1178933 date=1285060060]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178928#msg1178928 date=1285059679]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178914#msg1178914 date=1285058675]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=41972.msg1178883#msg1178883 date=1285056167]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178880#msg1178880 date=1285055656]
Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.
[/quote]

Oh dear!! Are you on acid or something??? Agger is one of the best central defenders in the Premiership and no one is building a team around him you sap! We build a team around Gerrard and Torres. He's a top class defender!

Have you heard him moan under Rafa?? Have you??? Bloody hell! What are you?
[/quote]

Oh do be quiet you annoying little person.

I have said he is a decent player, but he's not as great as you seem to think.

And did he moan under Benitez? Well, half the time he was injured (apparently) so not really much to moan about there. The rest of the time, hmm, let's see shall we.

Well this is what he said in September 2008: "I'm not satisfied with the fact that I'm not playing but I have to cope"

And again in January 2009 when the club didn't extend his contract quickly enough: "Honestly, I don't have any clue if they want to extend this contract."

Then a month later he was at it again, this time about not playing again: "If I don't play, it's untenable. My situation is that Rafa Benitez doesn't want to let me play - it irritates me when I don't play.''

Yeah, Agger never moans ever does he Glock?


[/quote]
No player in the Premiership will be satisfied when they are not playing? What's the point?
[/quote]

I quite agree, but I was countering the claim made by Glock that Agger did not moan under Benitez. Clearly he did.

What I will say though is that different players approach this in different ways. Some get their heads down and try to get back in, whereas some moan to the media.
I have no time at all for the latter approach as this never helps them or the club, and it doesn't do a lot to suggest Agger has these 'leadership' qualities that you say he has.

He's a decent player without a doubt, but he also seems to be a moaning little cunt who, when the club is clearly struggling, thinks its a good time to go on TV and slag off the new manager.
[/quote]
I don't think that was called for either to be honest.
 
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178940#msg1178940 date=1285060451]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178937#msg1178937 date=1285060274]


That still doesnt qualify as him being our most accomplished defender, because hes a goal threat. The opinion over his positioning, heading and ' ability to get stuck in' are debatable, marginal and exaggerated, once again. Hes injury prone and his goal threat is still an average of one a season, though that wont stop the usual suspects from bigging him up into something he's still only shown the potential to be, on too few ocassions.
[/quote]

Given that his main cheerleaders seem to be KHL (president of the Agger fanclub), rage and Glock I think that pretty much says it all doesn't it?
[/quote]
Haha I've actually noticed this meself. 6CM has gone fookin bonkers of late.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178926#msg1178926 date=1285059551]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178915#msg1178915 date=1285058709]
How is he our most accomplished defender? Because hes better on the ball? Hes no better than the others in the air or in the tackle.

If skrtel or carra were Danish then the same degree of arguement for them playing would be put forward.

The worst thing is, if we had a good Danish right back I wouldnt be championing johnson just because hes English!

[/quote]
Mark, please.

You make it sound like I'm the only person on the Internet who's of the opinion that Agger is a very good defender. I'm not.

He's better on the ball than any other defender we've got. His positioning is miles better than Skrtel's and he's our only goal-threat from the back as well. He is better in the air than both Carra and Skrtel although that doesn't say much. He's got leadership-attributes and he's never affraid of getting stuck in.

Carra for me is still out best out-and-out defender but he's not the most accomplished one.

The Danish-thingy part. I've only ever suggested that we should buy Agger, Saric, Kjær, Eriksen and Bendtner. It's obvious however that I know a player like Poulsen well good and when we were linked with him I could seee why. I'm not blind towards players flaws because of their nationality nor anything else but it REALLY baffles me that Agger is beeing left out of our current starting line-up. At least I thought he should be given the chance to make the spot his own.
[/quote]


You're not the only one, but your Danish slant is quite transparent.

I like Agger, but he's no Alan Hansen.

But the most important point you're missing is that we're not playing with Phil Neal either, who was quality both going forwards and in defense.

I'm actually of the view that Agger's future here will be dependent (in a slightly ironic twist) on how well Poulsen does.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178943#msg1178943 date=1285060563]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178940#msg1178940 date=1285060451]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178937#msg1178937 date=1285060274]


That still doesnt qualify as him being our most accomplished defender, because hes a goal threat. The opinion over his positioning, heading and ' ability to get stuck in' are debatable, marginal and exaggerated, once again. Hes injury prone and his goal threat is still an average of one a season, though that wont stop the usual suspects from bigging him up into something he's still only shown the potential to be, on too few ocassions.
[/quote]

Given that his main cheerleaders seem to be KHL (president of the Agger fanclub), rage and Glock I think that pretty much says it all doesn't it?
[/quote]
Haha I've actually noticed this meself. 6CM has gone fookin bonkers of late.
[/quote]

Dont forget zlatan too.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41972.msg1178946#msg1178946 date=1285060711]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178926#msg1178926 date=1285059551]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178915#msg1178915 date=1285058709]
How is he our most accomplished defender? Because hes better on the ball? Hes no better than the others in the air or in the tackle.

If skrtel or carra were Danish then the same degree of arguement for them playing would be put forward.

The worst thing is, if we had a good Danish right back I wouldnt be championing johnson just because hes English!

[/quote]
Mark, please.

You make it sound like I'm the only person on the Internet who's of the opinion that Agger is a very good defender. I'm not.

He's better on the ball than any other defender we've got. His positioning is miles better than Skrtel's and he's our only goal-threat from the back as well. He is better in the air than both Carra and Skrtel although that doesn't say much. He's got leadership-attributes and he's never affraid of getting stuck in.

Carra for me is still out best out-and-out defender but he's not the most accomplished one.

The Danish-thingy part. I've only ever suggested that we should buy Agger, Saric, Kjær, Eriksen and Bendtner. It's obvious however that I know a player like Poulsen well good and when we were linked with him I could seee why. I'm not blind towards players flaws because of their nationality nor anything else but it REALLY baffles me that Agger is beeing left out of our current starting line-up. At least I thought he should be given the chance to make the spot his own.
[/quote]


You're not the only one, but your Danish slant is quite transparent.

I like Agger, but he's no Alan Hansen.

But the most important point you're missing is that we're not playing with Phil Neal either, who was quality both going forwards and in defense.

I'm actually of the view that Agger's future here will be dependent (in a slightly ironic twist) on how well Poulsen does.
[/quote]
Why is that Avvy?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1178938#msg1178938 date=1285060365]
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
[/quote]

I would have taken his passing from CB at the weekend though, even though it is exaggerated or overrated it (his passing) is better than carra's and skrtel's and we really could have done without continually giving manu the ball when we were under pressure just aimlessly hoofing which saw manu build up momentum.
 
carra is better than agger (even though carra isn't the defender he once was) but I believe agger is better than skrtel and as such should be starting ahead of him.
 
I share the view that Agger is the better defender overall; but whilst we have the pretend RB Glen JOhnson marauding up and down I dont think Hodgson trusts Agger as CB.

I think if Mascherano were still here, we'd be seeing more of the formation you'd like.
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41972.msg1178947#msg1178947 date=1285060762]


Dont forget zlatan too.
[/quote]

I frequently try to
 
[quote author=Avmenon link=topic=41972.msg1178954#msg1178954 date=1285060994]
I share the view that Agger is the better defender overall; but whilst we have the pretend RB Glen JOhnson marauding up and down I dont think Hodgson trusts Agger as CB.

I think if Mascherano were still here, we'd be seeing more of the formation you'd like.
[/quote]
Damn these attacking full backs
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1178938#msg1178938 date=1285060365]
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
[/quote]

Yea, this is what I've started to think.
 
So Glock, Zlatan, Ragehard and meself are the only ones who reckon Agger should start when fit on 6CM?

Wow.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178964#msg1178964 date=1285061326]
So Glock, Zlatan, Ragehard and meself are the only ones who reckon Agger should start when fit on 6CM?

Wow.
[/quote]

No - a better point to take from this thread is *everyone* thinks you're a complete and utter lunatic where Daniel Agger is concerned, and doesn't listen to you on the subject.
 
I like Agger.

I don't like when players moan, because every player wants to start every game (if they're good enough and he is).

I think he should start ahead of Skrtel because well, he's better than Skrtel (but not by that much)

I think his goalthreat is minimal - it's just nice to have a capable passer in the back, which he is compared to Carra & Skrtel

I think he goes if this continues, which is not a good thing considering our back up is the Greek (imagine if Skrtel gets injured?)

I think thats' the end of my contribution to the thread.
 
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178964#msg1178964 date=1285061326]
So Glock, Zlatan, Ragehard and meself are the only ones who reckon Agger should start when fit on 6CM?

Wow.
[/quote]

it's bullshit. LOADS of liverpool fans want agger to start in the center of defense.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41972.msg1178989#msg1178989 date=1285062468]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178964#msg1178964 date=1285061326]
So Glock, Zlatan, Ragehard and meself are the only ones who reckon Agger should start when fit on 6CM?

Wow.
[/quote]

it's bullshit. LOADS of liverpool fans want agger to start in the center of defense.
[/quote]

Yup but sadly Roy doesn't think so.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41972.msg1178950#msg1178950 date=1285060853]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1178938#msg1178938 date=1285060365]
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
[/quote]

I would have taken his passing from CB at the weekend though, even though it is exaggerated or overrated it (his passing) is better than carra's and skrtel's and we really could have done without continually giving manu the ball when we were under pressure just aimlessly hoofing which saw manu build up momentum.
[/quote]

when i'm not posting from my phone I'm going to go guardian chalkboard on your ass. I'd be willing to bet the hoofing, which last year was shown to be a lot less frequent from our centre backs than most thought, is still happening when agger is in the team.

I'm also willing to bet that hoofing has more to do with a lack of movement than it does supposed passing skills. I'll further be willing to bet that Agger gives away the ball more than the others.

I'm a cocky shit on reflection
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1179025#msg1179025 date=1285066548]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41972.msg1178950#msg1178950 date=1285060853]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1178938#msg1178938 date=1285060365]
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
[/quote]

I would have taken his passing from CB at the weekend though, even though it is exaggerated or overrated it (his passing) is better than carra's and skrtel's and we really could have done without continually giving manu the ball when we were under pressure just aimlessly hoofing which saw manu build up momentum.
[/quote]

when i'm not posting from my phone I'm going to go guardian chalkboard on your ass. I'd be willing to bet the hoofing, which last year was shown to be a lot less frequent from our centre backs than most thought, is still happening when agger is in the team.

I'm also willing to bet that hoofing has more to do with a lack of movement than it does supposed passing skills. I'll further be willing to bet that Agger gives away the ball more than the others.

I'm a cocky shit on reflection

[/quote]
That's probably right but in all fairness as he is a bit more adventureous on the ball it's kind of obvious.
 
I think, in the spirit of countering KHL's bias, some people (especially Mark) are leveling some unfair criticism on Agger's defending ability. I think in his time here, which is ample, he has proved clearly that he is a solid and dependable CB with some attacking flair. I can't say in what area he is weaker than Skrtel.

We don't really know what he said to Danish media. But he has said he is willing to fight for his place, and if Roy was being objective Agger will win his place back sooner than latter.
 
Agger is streets ahead of Skrtel in most aspects of the game, but both are made of biscuits. I'd sell them and invest the money in a military research institution like the one on Universal Soldier and build two reliable dependable centre halves who were also programmed to kill Rooneh.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1179025#msg1179025 date=1285066548]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41972.msg1178950#msg1178950 date=1285060853]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1178938#msg1178938 date=1285060365]
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
[/quote]

I would have taken his passing from CB at the weekend though, even though it is exaggerated or overrated it (his passing) is better than carra's and skrtel's and we really could have done without continually giving manu the ball when we were under pressure just aimlessly hoofing which saw manu build up momentum.
[/quote]

when i'm not posting from my phone I'm going to go guardian chalkboard on your ass. I'd be willing to bet the hoofing, which last year was shown to be a lot less frequent from our centre backs than most thought, is still happening when agger is in the team.

I'm also willing to bet that hoofing has more to do with a lack of movement than it does supposed passing skills. I'll further be willing to bet that Agger gives away the ball more than the others.

I'm a cocky shit on reflection

[/quote]

It's not hoofing when Agger does it - it's long passing. Albeit that his long passes very rarely find their target. So the sum result is essentially the same.
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41972.msg1179068#msg1179068 date=1285070106]

It's not hoofing when Agger does it - it's long passing. Albeit that his long passes very rarely find their target. So the sum result is essentially the same.
[/quote]

Is that a little bit like the RAWK view of Lucas? That he is actually really good but its the rest of the players' fault that he looks a bit shit?
 
[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41972.msg1179068#msg1179068 date=1285070106]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1179025#msg1179025 date=1285066548]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41972.msg1178950#msg1178950 date=1285060853]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=41972.msg1178938#msg1178938 date=1285060365]
The idea of Agger, particularly KHL's idea is great. The reality is a bit different, poor in the air, loses way too many challenges. He doesn't do the basics of the job well and his passing and goal threat are massively overrated, and only of secondary importance anyway.
[/quote]

I would have taken his passing from CB at the weekend though, even though it is exaggerated or overrated it (his passing) is better than carra's and skrtel's and we really could have done without continually giving manu the ball when we were under pressure just aimlessly hoofing which saw manu build up momentum.
[/quote]

when i'm not posting from my phone I'm going to go guardian chalkboard on your ass. I'd be willing to bet the hoofing, which last year was shown to be a lot less frequent from our centre backs than most thought, is still happening when agger is in the team.

I'm also willing to bet that hoofing has more to do with a lack of movement than it does supposed passing skills. I'll further be willing to bet that Agger gives away the ball more than the others.

I'm a cocky shit on reflection

[/quote]

It's not hoofing when Agger does it - it's long passing.
[/quote]

Ha ha ha.
 
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