Agger's warning

[ragehard]

[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41972.msg1178849#msg1178849 date=1285052984]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178846#msg1178846 date=1285052806]infact if the greek isn't good enough either because of his lack of pace then i'd sell both skrtel and the greek and put the money towards a centre back that can command the air whilst promoting one of the kids.

[/quote]

Suggestions on who to buy?

Which kid to promote?
[/quote]

kelly can play both right back and centre back, the experience will do him good either directly replacing johnson or coming on as a 4th choice centre back.

if we need premiership proven then i'd buy the tall lad - hanglerland or however u spell his name. that'll sort out our centre back partnerships for the next 5 or 6 seasons minimum.

 

[darkstarexodus]

[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178855#msg1178855 date=1285053314]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41972.msg1178849#msg1178849 date=1285052984]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178846#msg1178846 date=1285052806]infact if the greek isn't good enough either because of his lack of pace then i'd sell both skrtel and the greek and put the money towards a centre back that can command the air whilst promoting one of the kids.

[/quote]

Suggestions on who to buy?

Which kid to promote?
[/quote]

kelly can play both right back and centre back, the experience will do him good either directly replacing johnson or coming on as a 4th choice centre back.

if we need premiership proven then i'd buy the tall lad - hanglerland or however u spell his name. that'll sort out our centre back partnerships for the next 5 or 6 seasons minimum.
[/quote]

To your credit, you actually answered the question. I disagree that Kelly should be getting games in the middle but if we were to purchase a central defender, Hangeland would be on my list.

 

[Richey]

So rage, you'd get rid of Carra, Skrtel and the Greek. What about when Agger gets injured AGAIN?

And for all this talk about Agger being good in attack, if that is the case then we will need someone to stay back. Carragher is the best out and out defender we have. He also lives and breathes LFC. Zlatan might not think this matters but actually it really does, and its very difficult to replace.

Our defence is still Carra plus one other for me.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41972.msg1178849#msg1178849 date=1285052984]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178846#msg1178846 date=1285052806]infact if the greek isn't good enough either because of his lack of pace then i'd sell both skrtel and the greek and put the money towards a centre back that can command the air whilst promoting one of the kids.

[/quote]

Suggestions on who to buy?

Which kid to promote?
[/quote]

See above. Promote Darby.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=41972.msg1178862#msg1178862 date=1285053738]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41972.msg1178849#msg1178849 date=1285052984]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178846#msg1178846 date=1285052806]infact if the greek isn't good enough either because of his lack of pace then i'd sell both skrtel and the greek and put the money towards a centre back that can command the air whilst promoting one of the kids.

[/quote]

Suggestions on who to buy?

Which kid to promote?
[/quote]

See above. Promote Darby.
[/quote]

Darby is shit.

 

[spider-Neil]

if anyone thinks skrtel is better than carra they seriously (seriously) need to sit down and 'properly' watch the two in action. skrtel is a penalty waiting to happen.

 

[TheBunnyman]

[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178855#msg1178855 date=1285053314]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41972.msg1178849#msg1178849 date=1285052984]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178846#msg1178846 date=1285052806]infact if the greek isn't good enough either because of his lack of pace then i'd sell both skrtel and the greek and put the money towards a centre back that can command the air whilst promoting one of the kids.

[/quote]

Suggestions on who to buy?

Which kid to promote?
[/quote]

kelly can play both right back and centre back, the experience will do him good either directly replacing johnson or coming on as a 4th choice centre back.

if we need premiership proven then i'd buy the tall lad - hanglerland or however u spell his name. that'll sort out our centre back partnerships for the next 5 or 6 seasons minimum.
[/quote]

Hangeland is 29. I like what I've seen of him, but it's optimistic in the extreme to think he'll sort us out at CB for '6 seasons minimum'.

I tend to agree with your idea about selling both Zorba and Skrtel/Agger in order to buy one first-choice CB though. Danny Wilson needs games, and ought to be fine as 4th choice. Our problem at the moment is we've got four good CBs but no truly outstanding ones.

I'd sell Agger as he clearly won't be happy as a squad player, is injured more often, and would fetch more money than Skrtel. I think he's quite a classy player, but he's a bit of a luxury in our current situation.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178861#msg1178861 date=1285053725]
So rage, you'd get rid of Carra, Skrtel and the Greek. What about when Agger gets injured AGAIN?

And for all this talk about Agger being good in attack, if that is the case then we will need someone to stay back. Carragher is the best out and out defender we have. He also lives and breathes LFC. Zlatan might not think this matters but actually it really does, and its very difficult to replace.

Our defence is still Carra plus one other for me.
[/quote]

This remind me of Hyppia's case. Hyppia's past it and i have told all you children here many many times before and some got over-excited and started to think with their heart rather than their head. Now, its Carra's turn.

We need to replace him and replace him slowly. He's been playing at the top level for so long now and we all owe him a lot but that does not mean he's undroppable. He's a legend of a defender and we need to find replacement for him.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=41972.msg1178870#msg1178870 date=1285054587]
if anyone thinks skrtel is better than carra they seriously (seriously) need to sit down and 'properly' watch the two in action. skrtel is a penalty waiting to happen.
[/quote]

Old Carra > Skrtel.

End of.

 

[ragehard]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178861#msg1178861 date=1285053725]
So rage, you'd get rid of Carra, Skrtel and the Greek. What about when Agger gets injured AGAIN?

And for all this talk about Agger being good in attack, if that is the case then we will need someone to stay back. Carragher is the best out and out defender we have. He also lives and breathes LFC. Zlatan might not think this matters but actually it really does, and its very difficult to replace.

Our defence is still Carra plus one other for me.
[/quote]

Hi Richey

you must have misunderstood me, i wouldn't get rid of carra, i just don't think he is an automatic first choice anymore.

i would get rid of the greek and skrtel if we could put the money towards a tall quality in the air centre back. this imo would give us the best balance at the back. passion, tackling ability and leadership in carra, ball playing ability in agger, aerial ability in hangerland and the emergence of youth through one or two of the kids.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=41972.msg1178871#msg1178871 date=1285054709]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178855#msg1178855 date=1285053314]
[quote author=darkstarexodus link=topic=41972.msg1178849#msg1178849 date=1285052984]
[quote author=ragehard link=topic=41972.msg1178846#msg1178846 date=1285052806]infact if the greek isn't good enough either because of his lack of pace then i'd sell both skrtel and the greek and put the money towards a centre back that can command the air whilst promoting one of the kids.

[/quote]

Suggestions on who to buy?

Which kid to promote?
[/quote]

kelly can play both right back and centre back, the experience will do him good either directly replacing johnson or coming on as a 4th choice centre back.

if we need premiership proven then i'd buy the tall lad - hanglerland or however u spell his name. that'll sort out our centre back partnerships for the next 5 or 6 seasons minimum.
[/quote]

Hangeland is 29. I like what I've seen of him, but it's optimistic in the extreme to think he'll sort us out at CB for '6 seasons minimum'.

I tend to agree with your idea about selling both Zorba and Skrtel/Agger in order to buy one first-choice CB though. Danny Wilson needs games, and ought to be fine as 4th choice. Our problem at the moment is we've got four good CBs but no truly outstanding ones.

I'd sell Agger as he clearly won't be happy as a squad player, is injured more often, and would fetch more money than Skrtel. I think he's quite a classy player, but he's a bit of a luxury in our current situation.
[/quote]

Why would we need to sell Agger for??? Bloody hell!! Roy need to sort things out and let Agger play his game.

On current form : Agger > Carra > Greek > Skrtel

 

[Richey]

Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Carra is far more 'penalty prone' than any other defender we have (although he's still a better defender)

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178880#msg1178880 date=1285055656]
Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.
[/quote]

Oh dear!! Are you on acid or something??? Agger is one of the best central defenders in the Premiership and no one is building a team around him you sap! We build a team around Gerrard and Torres. He's a top class defender!

Have you heard him moan under Rafa?? Have you??? Bloody hell! What are you?

 

[the_khl]

The argument to sell Agger beacuse he's 'a luxury in our current situation' does my head in.

Are we indeed becoming Fulhams fans too?

A club of our stature need the best players around and if they're good on the ball too that doesn't disqualify them one bit either.

I know Agger's been bigged up also above his own levels but can we please stop all this his a poor defender shite. He is absolutely not. He may have his flaws, in the air for one, but otherwise he's by a mile the most accomplished defender we've got overall. He's not Carra when it comes to attitude, guts and sheer determination (at least not yet) and he isn't quite as strong as Skrtel perhaps but he's the most accomplished one. Everyone outside Liverpool with half a footballing-brain would agree on this.

So yes we actually SHOULD build our defense around him as Carra is not getting any younger and Skrtel at best is a very decent squad-player. This is why I'm getting increasingly upset with him beeing benched only to be used as Konchesky's back up and I can surely understand his frustrations about it too.

Not saying he should've aired them so soon (or at all) but I can understand where he's coming form.

The most scary apart of it all though is the comments about Roy's preferences in defense. I don't like the sound of that one bit and if there's one thing it's not then it's Liverpool-like. Imagine if Alan Hansen (not saying Agger's his class but there are similiarites for everyone to see) was benched to make way for someone with more grit and power? I know times where different back then but we never should forget that we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and we are allowed to field 'luxury-players' as long as they are not a liability.

If Agger is indeed beeing lined up to be sold as it seems a lot on here wouldn't mind much *shivers* then be it and I'll bet you that the big ones will be lining up to secure his services. Because he's very good with potential to be awesome. But of course he needs to be played - and not out of position.

I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed he won't start against Northampton as LB. Then better not at all.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=SaintGeorge67 link=topic=41972.msg1178882#msg1178882 date=1285056119]
Carra is far more 'penalty prone' than any other defender we have (although he's still a better defender)
[/quote]
Absolutely not.

Skrtel's far more rash and in-your-face about it than Carra.

 

[jexykrodic]

Danny's good mood didn't last long did it?

If Dan feels he can't adapt to the new Manager then simply put in a transfer request.

No need for complaining in the Press.

If I was him I'd just buckle down and play to my abilities, that's more than enough to get in the team.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=jexykrodic link=topic=41972.msg1178888#msg1178888 date=1285056925]
Danny's good mood didn't last long did it?

If Dan feels he can't adapt to the new Manager then simply put in a transfer request.

No need for complaining in the Press.

If I was him I'd just buckle down and play to my abilities, that's more than enough to get in the team.
[/quote]
He was smiling during the interview.

Anwyays he was probably only beeing frustrated as it was made only minutes after the final whistle and he felt we should've had at least a point. Shit happens.

 

[SaintGeorge67]

Carra seems to try and give away a pen every game. Skrtel's not 'that' prolific is he?

 

[Delinquent]

I'm a little tired of assuming that Skrtel and Agger are going to make the grade. Both can be fantastic on their day but are equally likely to follow up a good performance with a poor one. Neither can head the ball particularly well, and that's never been one of Carragher's strong points so whichever partnership we choose, it's going to be vulnerable to aerial balls. I've said it before, but we've never replaced Sami, who complimented Carragher brilliantly.

I like the look of Jonas Olsson. He had Torres in his pocket for most of the game against us and has continued to impress recently. Very assured, commanding in the air, reasonably quick, weighs in with the odd goal, and hopefully not too expensive. Although that could change if he continues his current form. That's if we can afford anyone in January.

 

[keniget]

I can't imagine we'll buy a CB in January, but I've been convinced since last season that we need a new one for the long-term.

 

[Glock21]

[quote author=Delinquent link=topic=41972.msg1178896#msg1178896 date=1285057510]
I'm a little tired of assuming that Skrtel and Agger are going to make the grade. Both can be fantastic on their day but are equally likely to follow up a good performance with a poor one. Neither can head the ball particularly well, and that's never been one of Carragher's strong points so whichever partnership we choose, it's going to be vulnerable to aerial balls. I've said it before, but we've never replaced Sami, who complimented Carragher brilliantly.

I like the look of Jonas Olsson. He had Torres in his pocket for most of the game against us and has continued to impress recently. Very assured, commanding in the air, reasonably quick, weighs in with the odd goal, and hopefully not too expensive. Although that could change if he continues his current form. That's if we can afford anyone in January.
[/quote]

Yup Olsson's a good defender. Could get him for 3-4 mil.

 

[the_khl]

Del if we buys a strong aerial presence - as I know Keni, me and a few others argued already last Season was pivotal for our chances - then it should eventually be this NEW GUY + Agger.

The bit about Agger not making the grade is odd. He's had a few poor game this Season admittedly but he's only been played out of position. What would you expect? Look at our natural FBs who's playing in their normal positions, they've been even crappier.

To say he doesn't follow up on his good performances either is plain wrong. At least not when given the opportunity to find his best form. Then he's a class act and he has showed this on numerous occasions if you don't remember that then fair enough.

He's still only 25-years-old but now is indeed the time to increase the wieght on his shoulders. I'm sure he can handle the pressure and he's certainly the best bet in the squad at this day an age to build a new defense around.

 

[jexykrodic]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=41972.msg1178900#msg1178900 date=1285057912]
I can't imagine we'll buy a CB in January, but I've been convinced since last season that we need a new one for the long-term.
[/quote]

Have we not just bought this Wilson fella from Rangers? He must have had quite a bit of practice at defending.

 

[Richey]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=41972.msg1178883#msg1178883 date=1285056167]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178880#msg1178880 date=1285055656]
Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.
[/quote]

Oh dear!! Are you on acid or something??? Agger is one of the best central defenders in the Premiership and no one is building a team around him you sap! We build a team around Gerrard and Torres. He's a top class defender!

Have you heard him moan under Rafa?? Have you??? Bloody hell! What are you?
[/quote]

Oh do be quiet you annoying little person.

I have said he is a decent player, but he's not as great as you seem to think.

And did he moan under Benitez? Well, half the time he was injured (apparently) so not really much to moan about there. The rest of the time, hmm, let's see shall we.

Well this is what he said in September 2008: "I'm not satisfied with the fact that I'm not playing but I have to cope"

And again in January 2009 when the club didn't extend his contract quickly enough: "Honestly, I don't have any clue if they want to extend this contract."

Then a month later he was at it again, this time about not playing again: "If I don't play, it's untenable. My situation is that Rafa Benitez doesn't want to let me play - it irritates me when I don't play.''

Yeah, Agger never moans ever does he Glock?

 

[mark1975]

How is he our most accomplished defender? Because hes better on the ball? Hes no better than the others in the air or in the tackle.

If skrtel or carra were Danish then the same degree of arguement for them playing would be put forward.

The worst thing is, if we had a good Danish right back I wouldnt be championing johnson just because hes English!

 

[Avmenon]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178914#msg1178914 date=1285058675]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=41972.msg1178883#msg1178883 date=1285056167]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178880#msg1178880 date=1285055656]
Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.
[/quote]

Oh dear!! Are you on acid or something??? Agger is one of the best central defenders in the Premiership and no one is building a team around him you sap! We build a team around Gerrard and Torres. He's a top class defender!

Have you heard him moan under Rafa?? Have you??? Bloody hell! What are you?
[/quote]

Oh do be quiet you annoying little person.

I have said he is a decent player, but he's not as great as you seem to think.

And did he moan under Benitez? Well, half the time he was injured (apparently) so not really much to moan about there. The rest of the time, hmm, let's see shall we.

Well this is what he said in September 2008: "I'm not satisfied with the fact that I'm not playing but I have to cope"

And again in January 2009 when the club didn't extend his contract quickly enough: "Honestly, I don't have any clue if they want to extend this contract."

Then a month later he was at it again, this time about not playing again: "If I don't play, it's untenable. My situation is that Rafa Benitez doesn't want to let me play - it irritates me when I don't play.''

Yeah, Agger never moans ever does he Glock?


[/quote]

Dont forget his 'Everybodys happy happy now' comment from last week.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=41972.msg1178915#msg1178915 date=1285058709]
How is he our most accomplished defender? Because hes better on the ball? Hes no better than the others in the air or in the tackle.

If skrtel or carra were Danish then the same degree of arguement for them playing would be put forward.

The worst thing is, if we had a good Danish right back I wouldnt be championing johnson just because hes English!

[/quote]
Mark, please.

You make it sound like I'm the only person on the Internet who's of the opinion that Agger is a very good defender. I'm not.

He's better on the ball than any other defender we've got. His positioning is miles better than Skrtel's and he's our only goal-threat from the back as well. He is better in the air than both Carra and Skrtel although that doesn't say much. He's got leadership-attributes and he's never affraid of getting stuck in.

Carra for me is still out best out-and-out defender but he's not the most accomplished one.

The Danish-thingy part. I've only ever suggested that we should buy Agger, Saric, Kjær, Eriksen and Bendtner. It's obvious however that I know a player like Poulsen well good and when we were linked with him I could seee why. I'm not blind towards players flaws because of their nationality nor anything else but it REALLY baffles me that Agger is beeing left out of our current starting line-up. At least I thought he should be given the chance to make the spot his own.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178914#msg1178914 date=1285058675]
[quote author=Glock link=topic=41972.msg1178883#msg1178883 date=1285056167]
[quote author=Richey link=topic=41972.msg1178880#msg1178880 date=1285055656]
Agger should be sold if he keeps moaning. He's a decent player but no World beater and certainly not good enough to build the team around.

I do prefer him slightly to Skrtel but its close. He is also unreliable with injuries.
[/quote]

Oh dear!! Are you on acid or something??? Agger is one of the best central defenders in the Premiership and no one is building a team around him you sap! We build a team around Gerrard and Torres. He's a top class defender!

Have you heard him moan under Rafa?? Have you??? Bloody hell! What are you?
[/quote]

Oh do be quiet you annoying little person.

I have said he is a decent player, but he's not as great as you seem to think.

And did he moan under Benitez? Well, half the time he was injured (apparently) so not really much to moan about there. The rest of the time, hmm, let's see shall we.

Well this is what he said in September 2008: "I'm not satisfied with the fact that I'm not playing but I have to cope"

And again in January 2009 when the club didn't extend his contract quickly enough: "Honestly, I don't have any clue if they want to extend this contract."

Then a month later he was at it again, this time about not playing again: "If I don't play, it's untenable. My situation is that Rafa Benitez doesn't want to let me play - it irritates me when I don't play.''

Yeah, Agger never moans ever does he Glock?


[/quote]
No player in the Premiership will be satisfied when they are not playing? What's the point?

 

[Delinquent]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=41972.msg1178886#msg1178886 date=1285056828]
The argument to sell Agger beacuse he's 'a luxury in our current situation' does my head in.

Are we indeed becoming Fulhams fans too?

A club of our stature need the best players around and if they're good on the ball too that doesn't disqualify them one bit either.

I know Agger's been bigged up also above his own levels but can we please stop all this his a poor defender shite. He is absolutely not. He may have his flaws, in the air for one, but otherwise he's by a mile the most accomplished defender we've got overall. He's not Carra when it comes to attitude, guts and sheer determination (at least not yet) and he isn't quite as strong as Skrtel perhaps but he's the most accomplished one. Everyone outside Liverpool with half a footballing-brain would agree on this.

So yes we actually SHOULD build our defense around him as Carra is not getting any younger and Skrtel at best is a very decent squad-player. This is why I'm getting increasingly upset with him beeing benched only to be used as Konchesky's back up and I can surely understand his frustrations about it too.

Not saying he should've aired them so soon (or at all) but I can understand where he's coming form.

The most scary apart of it all though is the comments about Roy's preferences in defense. I don't like the sound of that one bit and if there's one thing it's not then it's Liverpool-like. Imagine if Alan Hansen (not saying Agger's his class but there are similiarites for everyone to see) was benched to make way for someone with more grit and power? I know times where different back then but we never should forget that we are still one of the biggest clubs in the world and we are allowed to field 'luxury-players' as long as they are not a liability.

If Agger is indeed beeing lined up to be sold as it seems a lot on here wouldn't mind much *shivers* then be it and I'll bet you that the big ones will be lining up to secure his services. Because he's very good with potential to be awesome. But of course he needs to be played - and not out of position.

I'm keeping my fingers firmly crossed he won't start against Northampton as LB. Then better not at all.
[/quote]

You do make me cringe when you go off on these tirades about Agger. The truth is, Agger has shown very little improvement in his time here, and the longer that continues, the more it looks like hype rather than potential. Couple that with his injury record, and I'd be willing to bet money that if Agger was put up for sale, none of the top four would be interested in him, unless it was for a significantly deflated fee. That's because he represents a risk, and one that many would be reluctant to take. It's hardly worked out for us thus far, has it?

Of course, a large part of the problem is that we can't afford to have two defenders who are weak in the air. So unless you're partnering Agger with Sami's clone, then whichever partnership we field, it's going to be susceptible to being beaten in the air. I'm inclined to think that Carragher remains our best defender, so we should therefore be looking for another defender to partner him who dominates in the air. If Agger is still here when Carra finally gives way, then perhaps he'd be the ideal partner for this player.

Until then, he really needs to do his talking on the pitch.