You are either in or your out

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg975990#msg975990 date=1257012357]
I haven't been in for quite a while.

It's clear his decisions in the transfer market in the past few years are really taking their toll on us now.
[/quote]

That sums it up even though there are other big holes in his management.

I'm definitely out.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg976194#msg976194 date=1257027272]
[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36862.msg976174#msg976174 date=1257022751]
I'm not misrepresenting anything, there's scores of we can do it posts, we just need to get Gerrard and co back, we've been dead unlucky, chelsea will drop points, blahblahblah
It's a fucking joke
He's turned into Houllier, exactly as predicted, and his infuriating intrasigence and myopia is now damaging the club
We won't get anywhere near the title, fact
And Benitez needs to take his fair share of the fucking blame, because he's the one who fucking brought cunts like Lucas, Voronin, Zorba, Insua et al
[/quote]

Exactly. The optimists are delusional. We need to win the league. Rafa has failed and will continue to fail. There's no reason to believe otherwise.
[/quote]

All true and just because you can see it coming doesn't make you less of a fan.

I had to stop posting as I hated so much for it but everything I thought would happen is happening right now.

We would have needed a full strength squad from day one and still got lucky to win the league.

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976317#msg976317 date=1257064441]
We would have needed a full strength squad from day one and still got lucky to win the league.[/quote]

Like the Mancs did last year?

 

[rage]

they earned their luck as did we in istanbul.

luck balances itself out over a period of time.

you just know that once it gets the position where people are starting to say you're either with us or against us that the situation has already been lost.

 

[vantage]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976017#msg976017 date=1257013774]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976007#msg976007 date=1257012923]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg975990#msg975990 date=1257012357]
I haven't been in for quite a while.

It's clear his decisions in the transfer market in the past few years are really taking their toll on us now.
[/quote]

If Ferguson or Ancelotti get a signing wrong it doesn't seem as bad because they have the funds to go and buy another player, or without it being a loss to their form as they have players to come in and play at a high level, if a player goes wrong for us, and who knows if it will work out or not ? we have to try and go again and replace him, which means we will be losing out because of a lack of quality squad players to replace them

Could you see any of them having to go for 2nd choice players ?
[/quote]

Krissr we've outspent United in the past five years, whatever way you look at it. Fergie did go for second choice players this summer, Owen certainly wasn't his first choice.

It's not one transfer decision that's put us in this position it's an accumulation of bad decisions over the last three years that have us in this position.
[/quote]

And Utd won't win th league or the CL Ross. Not unless they spend heavily over Xmas.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36862.msg976155#msg976155 date=1257021449]Gene he had (roughly) 80m worth of players out injured today. How can anyone be expected to cope with that on a budget of roughly 20m a year? Thats FOUR years of talent he couldnt play.
Dont get me wrong hes spent dismally in the 5 to 10m bracket but if you have Agger (10m), Johnson (20m), Gerrard (40m), Riera (10m) and Aquilani (15m) out injured and unavailable, what can you do?
[/quote]

Without wanting to fan the flames of discontent any further, we were rubbish when Gerrard & co. were fit as well at the start of the season.

But yes, had they have been fit all season, we'd have no doubt improved.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg975990#msg975990 date=1257012357]
I haven't been in for quite a while.

It's clear his decisions in the transfer market in the past few years are really taking their toll on us now.
[/quote]

The problem we have had in the transfer market is that we have lacked a clear and coherent direction in what we've been doing with our buys and sales. You just have to look at the Owen/Simao, Barry/Keane and Alonso fiascos to see that Rafa is pulling one direction and our owners pulling in another. Of course Rafa is to blame for a lot of this but he's hardly been helped by whoever were in charge above him.

We've been so unlike Arsenal and United in our togetherness and planning, it's untrue.

As for being in or out, well depends on where we are at the end of the season. 6 defeats in 7 is simply unacceptable and I hope Rafa can turn it around.

 

[the_khl]

It's funny how the same ol people tend to compare Houlliers last Season with every upcoming one at some point between October and December.

It really is a hollow haul. And extremely fickle too.

Last Season were one of the best we've had for the past 10-15 years Premier League-wise. Not many teenagers outthere will remember a more thrilling period in the League. Beating Chelski and United away and home, whilst playing some of the most beautiful attacking football around. Everyone rekognized us as the most enthralling team to watch less than 6 months ago.

A good two handful of games into the new Season and we are yet once again 'back to the ways of Houllier when he finally lost the grip'?

Hollow in my opnion and extremely tabloid-esque.

Everyone with half a football-brain knows that any team outthere would struggle without 3 to 6 of their Key-players. Add to this that we're conceeding beach-ball goals as well and you'll actually paint a completely different picture. A far more objective-like one as well.

All that matters to me is that we're still within reach. 9 points in early November is nothing to talk about really and even less to make a fuss about.

Cheer up.

 

[manwithnoname]

Yes, getting beaten 5 times in the Premiership by the end of October is nothing to worry about, or comment on

Bell-end

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36862.msg976356#msg976356 date=1257074685]
Yes, getting beaten 5 times in the Premiership by the end of October is nothing to worry about, or comment on

Bell-end
[/quote]

There's a lot to worry about but would it be possible for you to change your rather out-worn 'Houllier-Season'-tune whenever you're addressing the matter?

It's stupid. And it makes you look stupid come Spring every year.

You're as fickle as the owners at Real Madrid really, and if we were to listen to your Autumn-rants every year we would've been set back as a club for years. Fact.

Evidently there's a lot to worry about, and there's a lot of challenges ahead, but one isn't to get in a new manager. He's of course to blame for some of this mess but there are far to many factors influenting that he can't control upon.

Can't you see that? Won't you see that?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36862.msg976356#msg976356 date=1257074685]
Yes, getting beaten 5 times in the Premiership by the end of October is nothing to worry about, or comment on

Bell-end
[/quote]I dont think anyone isnt worried Bren, im just not convinced here and now Benitez could do anything different.
Its pretty clear weve been savaged by injuries this year. Gerrard, Torres, Aquilani, Riera, Johnson, Agger, Aurelio and Skrtel have all been injured on and off this year were having to rely on N'gog, Babel, Lucas etc.
Benitez isnt fucking this up, hes hamstrung.
Anyway, i doubt we'll agree.

 

[Oncy]

I forgot Mascherano. He's missed about 3 games so far too.
The press may be prepared to ignore our injuries but im not.
Our best team is.
Reina
johnson
agger
carragher
insua
mascherano
aquilani
riera
gerrard
kuyt
torres.

Bench-cavalieri, skrtel, aurelio, lucas, benayoun, babel. N'gog.

We havnt got fucking close to that this year.

 

[manwithnoname]

And even if we had, we need better than Steptoe and Insua, who are both slow as fuck

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Brendan link=topic=36862.msg976369#msg976369 date=1257077597]
And even if we had, we need better than Steptoe and Insua, who are both slow as fuck
[/quote]Maybe so, our squad is nowhere near where it should be for sure, but when half your first 11 (and lets not pretend Gerrard, Torres, Mascherano, Agger arent massive key players) is injured its difficult to compete.
Rafa's totally to blame for our depth, too many weak purchases and too many decent players shipped out, but this is a team that he took to within a whisker of the title last year, so given that, coupled with the lack of financial support and the injury crisis (not to mention the lack of viable alternative) im prepared to give him time to dig us out of this.
Chelsea have United and Arsenal in their next 3 games, we have 3 huge games against Birmingham, city and Everton so im going to see where we are after those games. Hopefully the international window will help us for once.

 

[cochyn]

Oncy give up dude seriously!!!

Having read thall 7 pages of this Black is clearly white!!!

 

[gkmacca]

If there's anyone left who knows the difference between 'your' and 'you're,' can you run away to somewhere less stupid?

 

[Vlads Quiff]

We fuck up every year and it's never Rafa's fault, there is always something or someone else to blame.
He came with a five year plan....five years ago, and we are going backwards.
Yes all of a sudden half the team is missing, but the depth of the squad is almost entirely Benitez fault, the in-game decision making is entirely Benitez fault.
That said I don't think who is to blame is the main issue at the moment, it is how to get out of this mess that is the priority. We need to forget about everything, apart from a top four finish, which at this current moment in time is looking like a big ask.
Regardless of who is in charge in the January window we have to snap up two or three decent players regardless of the cost, as the potential cost of not qualifying next year is disastrous.
Those of us with even half a brain knew in the summer we were well short up front, to the point of downright negligence, which has been proved utterly correct. The prospect of two from N'gog , Kuyt Voronin and Babel when Torres was missing filled me with dread, so why the fuck did it not fill Rafa and everyone else in a position of influence with the same feelings.

regards

 

[Jürgen4PM]

I wonder where the money is going to suddenly come from? If it had been an option i'm sure they'd have used it in the summer just gone.

 

[keniget]

I hope it comes from somewhere because this squad could really do with a lift.

The BBC gossip column this morning suggested that we are planning to sell Babel to fund Pepe's raise. Now, I'm not saying it's a worthwhile trade, but if that's how broke we are, it's pretty fucking scary.

 

[Judge Jules]

We're no more broke than the other big clubs, in fact rather the contrary. My guess is it's far more a question of H and G themselves being pressed by the banks.

Rafa does himself no favours with some of his decision-making and with his stubbornness in sticking to what he's decided come what may, but even so I can't buy the idea that he deliberately chose to stick with such a threadbare range of strikers. Either some deal or other fell through, or the rumours are correct and he was given less cash than he was expecting.

 

[Vlads Quiff]

[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976674#msg976674 date=1257099603]
I wonder where the money is going to suddenly come from? If it had been an option i'm sure they'd have used it in the summer just gone.
[/quote]

They took a gamble and fucked up. Just like Rafa took a gamble with Aqualani that is blowing up in his face

regards

 

[gene hughes]

If we'd kept Keane we wouldn't have this problem. Whatever you think of him, he's an improvement on our current crop of back ups for Torres.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg976685#msg976685 date=1257100091]
If we'd kept Keane we wouldn't have this problem. Whatever you think of him, he's an improvement on our current crop of back ups for Torres.
[/quote]

I totally agree with that. Although he's been gash for Spurs since he went back - according to their fans.

 

[Jürgen4PM]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36862.msg976683#msg976683 date=1257099906]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976674#msg976674 date=1257099603]
I wonder where the money is going to suddenly come from? If it had been an option i'm sure they'd have used it in the summer just gone.
[/quote]

They took a gamble and fucked up. Just like Rafa took a gamble with Aqualani that is blowing up in his face

regards
[/quote]

Yeah i agree Vlad.

But i think your kidding yourself if you think that G&H will free up enough money for 3 decent players in January.

 

[gene hughes]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36862.msg976690#msg976690 date=1257100231]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg976685#msg976685 date=1257100091]
If we'd kept Keane we wouldn't have this problem. Whatever you think of him, he's an improvement on our current crop of back ups for Torres.
[/quote]

I totally agree with that. Although he's been gash for Spurs since he went back - according to their fans.
[/quote]
I think he's been played on the right sometimes. I'm not his biggest fan by any means but he's more likely to score a goal or change a game that Voronin, Ngog, Babel etc.

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg976693#msg976693 date=1257100566]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36862.msg976690#msg976690 date=1257100231]
[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg976685#msg976685 date=1257100091]
If we'd kept Keane we wouldn't have this problem. Whatever you think of him, he's an improvement on our current crop of back ups for Torres.
[/quote]

I totally agree with that. Although he's been gash for Spurs since he went back - according to their fans.
[/quote]
I think he's been played on the right sometimes. I'm not his biggest fan by any means but he's more likely to score a goal or change a game that Voronin, Ngog, Babel etc.
[/quote]

If we kept Keane then we would have still owed Spurs around 10m this summer, which meant we probably wouldn't got have Johnson. Still, 7m pounds should get you a decent fullback but just not an English one.

 

[gene hughes]

We could unravel this whole thing for pages and pages. We wouldn't have needed the 7m if we hadn't blown it on a fat Italian full back for a start.

Bad decisions.

 

[Squiggles]

[quote author=Vlads Quiff link=topic=36862.msg976665#msg976665 date=1257099065]
We fuck up every year and it's never Rafa's fault, there is always something or someone else to blame.
He came with a five year plan....five years ago, and we are going backwards.
Yes all of a sudden half the team is missing, but the depth of the squad is almost entirely Benitez fault, the in-game decision making is entirely Benitez fault.
That said I don't think who is to blame is the main issue at the moment, it is how to get out of this mess that is the priority. We need to forget about everything, apart from a top four finish, which at this current moment in time is looking like a big ask.
Regardless of who is in charge in the January window we have to snap up two or three decent players regardless of the cost, as the potential cost of not qualifying next year is disastrous.
Those of us with even half a brain knew in the summer we were well short up front, to the point of downright negligence, which has been proved utterly correct. The prospect of two from N'gog , Kuyt Voronin and Babel when Torres was missing filled me with dread, so why the fuck did it not fill Rafa and everyone else in a position of influence with the same feelings.

regards

[/quote]

He didn't come with a '5 year plan'. In fact being the pragmatist he is, when he was appointed in charge of Liverpool he distance himself from the notion entirely.

Agree with the rest, though. I think we've been desperately unlucky this season, but the reason it's cost us to such a high degree is largely the decisions of Benitez.

 

[gene hughes]

Don't foget the flu though lads, we wouldn't be even having this conversation if some bastard hadn't fucked a sick pig in Mexico.

*waves fist at sky*

DAMN YOU PABLO LOPEZ, DAMN YOU TO HELLLLLLLLLLLLL"

 

[rebel23]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36862.msg976375#msg976375 date=1257078204]Hopefully the international window will help us for once.
[/quote]

No it won't.

Liverpool are a victim of its own success, we're the most watched team in the WORLD, above Man Utd (according to the figures) and the press are constantly giving us attention not just here but in Spain and other countries. This means national teams will call up our players and consider them important to their sides otherwise the press ask questions and I suspect many of our players will get called up even those back from injury like Aquilani and will ran into the ground in a meaningless game. it happens every time