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[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976032#msg976032 date=1257014764]
Rough figures at Utd's team playing now, around the 175m mark

Van Der Sar - 3m

O'shea - 0m

Evra - 7m

Ferdinand - 32m

Vidic - 7m

Carrick - 17m

Anderson - 17m

Nani - 17m

Valencia - 17m

Rooney - 30m

Berbatov - 30m


Does our team come to anywere near that ?
[/quote]

Why does it have to ?
 
Very admirable Rebel but some people would rather see us take a chance on someone else if Rafa can't deliver the title. We might win it with someone else at the helm. Then again we might not but at least we'd have tried. I know what you're response will be as we've done this one to death before so I'll save you the effort by saying I know and understand your view.
 
[quote author=rage link=topic=36862.msg976034#msg976034 date=1257014820]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976029#msg976029 date=1257014450]
the kneejerking is inevitable and I can see the media going after him next week (whatever happens)

there's no question it's not the real LFC we're watching and when all the players are fit and healthy it will be much better and they will go on a run and play some lovely football but ive been saying it will get worse before it gets better the longer the big players are not available and it looks like we're some weeks away from that

A change of manager will not do any good, he is only getting what he can out of the shite he has. we can argue about whether he should have bought them or played them (Voronin, Babel etc are truly awful and Kuyt and others are way off form) but that is our weak squad

[/quote]

today our weak squad had starting 3 players that are not 1st choice - degan, the greek and voronin. of the 3 degan didn't do much wrong, the greek got better and it is beyond me why yossi got played first of all on the left where he is weaker and then got subbed instead of voronin.

this team should be strong enough to beat fulham. i can't remember their keeper making a save in the second half can you?

6 loses out of 7 games is not kneejerking - something is very wrong here
[/quote]

why should it be strong enough to beat them? a bunch of good pros v. another bunch of good pros, one exceptional player in Torres and Fulham are at home where they have turned over better sides than what we had today. the greek and insua were awful for the goals

kneejerking is perhaps the wrong word I mean the pressure and the hysteria, put it in context of 5 years and while it might be bad now we know it will get better when our better players are on the pitch, a new manager wouldn't make a diff.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976038#msg976038 date=1257015045]
a new manager wouldn't make a diff.
[/quote]

How do you know?
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976035#msg976035 date=1257014867]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976032#msg976032 date=1257014764]
Rough figures at Utd's team playing now, around the 175m mark

Van Der Sar - 3m

O'shea - 0m

Evra - 7m

Ferdinand - 32m

Vidic - 7m

Carrick - 17m

Anderson - 17m

Nani - 17m

Valencia - 17m

Rooney - 30m

Berbatov - 30m


Does our team come to anywere near that ?
[/quote]

Why does it have to ?
[/quote]

Because our team is weaker, and because of that means we cant afford players of the luxury of Man Utd, which makes things easier when you have them sort of players
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976032#msg976032 date=1257014764]
Rough figures at Utd's team playing now, around the 175m mark

Van Der Sar - 3m

O'shea - 0m

Evra - 7m

Ferdinand - 32m

Vidic - 7m

Carrick - 17m

Anderson - 17m

Nani - 17m

Valencia - 17m

Rooney - 30m

Berbatov - 30m


Does our team come to anywere near that ?
[/quote]

We beat them you know Kriss. Just last week.
 
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976038#msg976038 date=1257015045]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36862.msg976034#msg976034 date=1257014820]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976029#msg976029 date=1257014450]
the kneejerking is inevitable and I can see the media going after him next week (whatever happens)

there's no question it's not the real LFC we're watching and when all the players are fit and healthy it will be much better and they will go on a run and play some lovely football but ive been saying it will get worse before it gets better the longer the big players are not available and it looks like we're some weeks away from that

A change of manager will not do any good, he is only getting what he can out of the shite he has. we can argue about whether he should have bought them or played them (Voronin, Babel etc are truly awful and Kuyt and others are way off form) but that is our weak squad

[/quote]

today our weak squad had starting 3 players that are not 1st choice - degan, the greek and voronin. of the 3 degan didn't do much wrong, the greek got better and it is beyond me why yossi got played first of all on the left where he is weaker and then got subbed instead of voronin.

this team should be strong enough to beat fulham. i can't remember their keeper making a save in the second half can you?

6 loses out of 7 games is not kneejerking - something is very wrong here
[/quote]

why should it be strong enough to beat them? a bunch of good pros v. another bunch of good pros, one exceptional player in Torres and Fulham are at home where they have turned over better sides than what we had today. the greek and insua were awful for the goals

kneejerking is perhaps the wrong word I mean the pressure and the hysteria, put it in context of 5 years and while it might be bad now we know it will get better when our better players are on the pitch, a new manager wouldn't make a diff.



[/quote]

There you have it, we shouldn't have hopes of beating the likes of Fulham.
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976040#msg976040 date=1257015167]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976035#msg976035 date=1257014867]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976032#msg976032 date=1257014764]
Rough figures at Utd's team playing now, around the 175m mark

Van Der Sar - 3m

O'shea - 0m

Evra - 7m

Ferdinand - 32m

Vidic - 7m

Carrick - 17m

Anderson - 17m

Nani - 17m

Valencia - 17m

Rooney - 30m

Berbatov - 30m


Does our team come to anywere near that ?
[/quote]

Why does it have to ?
[/quote]

Because our team is weaker, and because of that means we cant afford players of the luxury of Man Utd, which makes things easier when you have them sort of players
[/quote]

Krissr you realise we beat them for the third time in a row last week ?

We have spent more than United in the last five years, meaniing we've been able to afford more than United - we have royally fucked up though.

ANd they've only been marginally better in the transfer market of late.
 
Yer Sheik we did and deserved it, but to get that level of performance evry week we need better quality players to provide consistenlty good performances
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976024#msg976024 date=1257014169]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976023#msg976023 date=1257014129]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976017#msg976017 date=1257013774]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976007#msg976007 date=1257012923]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg975990#msg975990 date=1257012357]
I haven't been in for quite a while.

It's clear his decisions in the transfer market in the past few years are really taking their toll on us now.
[/quote]

If Ferguson or Ancelotti get a signing wrong it doesn't seem as bad because they have the funds to go and buy another player, or without it being a loss to their form as they have players to come in and play at a high level, if a player goes wrong for us, and who knows if it will work out or not ? we have to try and go again and replace him, which means we will be losing out because of a lack of quality squad players to replace them

Could you see any of them having to go for 2nd choice players ?
[/quote]

Krissr we've outspent United in the past five years, whatever way you look at it. Fergie did go for second choice players this summer, Owen certainly wasn't his first choice.

It's not one transfer decision that's put us in this position it's an accumulation of bad decisions over the last three years that have us in this position.
[/quote]

Lets not forget to take into account the long period before that Rosco! The scum had been building we their squad a long time before Rafa came.
[/quote]

Had they ?

I never knew that Rafa. Thanks.

Did we buy players back then too ?
[/quote]

Your welcome.

The scum, chavs and the gooners all had established squads well before Rafa came in. So after 5 years and having spent £95mill net should we expect to be ahead of all of them now?

Of course we should be doing better than we are this season (Rafa's fault some of it too), but personally i think it's wrong to be bashing him for the money he's "wasted".

In the time that Rafa's been with us excellent managers like Fergie and Jose have wasted a lot more.
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976046#msg976046 date=1257015405]
Yer Sheik we did and deserved it, but to get that level of performance evry week we need better quality players to provide consistenlty good performances
[/quote]

But we don't play Utd every week. We play teams we've spent lots more money than.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36862.msg976039#msg976039 date=1257015106]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976038#msg976038 date=1257015045]
a new manager wouldn't make a diff.
[/quote]

How do you know?
[/quote]

*Taps fingers impatiently*
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976043#msg976043 date=1257015275]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976038#msg976038 date=1257015045]
[quote author=rage link=topic=36862.msg976034#msg976034 date=1257014820]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976029#msg976029 date=1257014450]
the kneejerking is inevitable and I can see the media going after him next week (whatever happens)

there's no question it's not the real LFC we're watching and when all the players are fit and healthy it will be much better and they will go on a run and play some lovely football but ive been saying it will get worse before it gets better the longer the big players are not available and it looks like we're some weeks away from that

A change of manager will not do any good, he is only getting what he can out of the shite he has. we can argue about whether he should have bought them or played them (Voronin, Babel etc are truly awful and Kuyt and others are way off form) but that is our weak squad

[/quote]

today our weak squad had starting 3 players that are not 1st choice - degan, the greek and voronin. of the 3 degan didn't do much wrong, the greek got better and it is beyond me why yossi got played first of all on the left where he is weaker and then got subbed instead of voronin.

this team should be strong enough to beat fulham. i can't remember their keeper making a save in the second half can you?

6 loses out of 7 games is not kneejerking - something is very wrong here
[/quote]

why should it be strong enough to beat them? a bunch of good pros v. another bunch of good pros, one exceptional player in Torres and Fulham are at home where they have turned over better sides than what we had today. the greek and insua were awful for the goals

kneejerking is perhaps the wrong word I mean the pressure and the hysteria, put it in context of 5 years and while it might be bad now we know it will get better when our better players are on the pitch, a new manager wouldn't make a diff.



[/quote]

There you have it, we shouldn't have hopes of beating the likes of Fulham.

[/quote]

its all about expectations i suppose.
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976047#msg976047 date=1257015471]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976024#msg976024 date=1257014169]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976023#msg976023 date=1257014129]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976017#msg976017 date=1257013774]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976007#msg976007 date=1257012923]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg975990#msg975990 date=1257012357]
I haven't been in for quite a while.

It's clear his decisions in the transfer market in the past few years are really taking their toll on us now.
[/quote]

If Ferguson or Ancelotti get a signing wrong it doesn't seem as bad because they have the funds to go and buy another player, or without it being a loss to their form as they have players to come in and play at a high level, if a player goes wrong for us, and who knows if it will work out or not ? we have to try and go again and replace him, which means we will be losing out because of a lack of quality squad players to replace them

Could you see any of them having to go for 2nd choice players ?
[/quote]

Krissr we've outspent United in the past five years, whatever way you look at it. Fergie did go for second choice players this summer, Owen certainly wasn't his first choice.

It's not one transfer decision that's put us in this position it's an accumulation of bad decisions over the last three years that have us in this position.
[/quote]

Lets not forget to take into account the long period before that Rosco! The scum had been building we their squad a long time before Rafa came.
[/quote]

Had they ?

I never knew that Rafa. Thanks.

Did we buy players back then too ?
[/quote]

Your welcome.

The scum, chavs and the gooners all had established squads well before Rafa came in. So after 5 years and having spent £95mill net should we expect to be ahead of all of them now?

Of course we should be doing better than we are this season (Rafa's fault some of it too), but personally i think it's wrong to be bashing him for the money he's "wasted".

In the time that Rafa's been with us Fergie and the Chavs managers have wasted a lot much more.


[/quote]

And we had the guts of a Champions League winning squad when Rafa began.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976033#msg976033 date=1257014801]
I give up.

Rafa has never had any money to spend, it's all the Americans, Rick Parry and the media's fault.

Rafa is great.
[/quote]

I just don't believe you Ross.
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg975986#msg975986 date=1257012294]
Whaddapie ? What manager do you believe that could win us the league, Yes there's managers out there capable, but what manager would come to us with no money available ?
[/quote]

You said "We're lucky to have him", mate. That's very different to "who can win us the league?".

My point is that we are amoung the game's top names. We're not lucky to have anybody. It's a privilege to work for LFC, regardless of your level.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36862.msg976052#msg976052 date=1257015695]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976033#msg976033 date=1257014801]
I give up.

Rafa has never had any money to spend, it's all the Americans, Rick Parry and the media's fault.

Rafa is great.
[/quote]

I just don't believe you Ross.
[/quote]

I should have put "FACT" at the end of that just to convince you.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976055#msg976055 date=1257015751]
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36862.msg976052#msg976052 date=1257015695]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976033#msg976033 date=1257014801]
I give up.

Rafa has never had any money to spend, it's all the Americans, Rick Parry and the media's fault.

Rafa is great.
[/quote]

I just don't believe you Ross.
[/quote]

I should have put "FACT" at the end of that just to convince you.
[/quote]

You won't be allowed in. No matter what you say...
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976051#msg976051 date=1257015677]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976047#msg976047 date=1257015471]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976024#msg976024 date=1257014169]
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976023#msg976023 date=1257014129]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976017#msg976017 date=1257013774]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976007#msg976007 date=1257012923]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg975990#msg975990 date=1257012357]
I haven't been in for quite a while.

It's clear his decisions in the transfer market in the past few years are really taking their toll on us now.
[/quote]

If Ferguson or Ancelotti get a signing wrong it doesn't seem as bad because they have the funds to go and buy another player, or without it being a loss to their form as they have players to come in and play at a high level, if a player goes wrong for us, and who knows if it will work out or not ? we have to try and go again and replace him, which means we will be losing out because of a lack of quality squad players to replace them

Could you see any of them having to go for 2nd choice players ?
[/quote]

Krissr we've outspent United in the past five years, whatever way you look at it. Fergie did go for second choice players this summer, Owen certainly wasn't his first choice.

It's not one transfer decision that's put us in this position it's an accumulation of bad decisions over the last three years that have us in this position.
[/quote]

Lets not forget to take into account the long period before that Rosco! The scum had been building we their squad a long time before Rafa came.
[/quote]

Had they ?

I never knew that Rafa. Thanks.

Did we buy players back then too ?
[/quote]

Your welcome.

The scum, chavs and the gooners all had established squads well before Rafa came in. So after 5 years and having spent £95mill net should we expect to be ahead of all of them now?

Of course we should be doing better than we are this season (Rafa's fault some of it too), but personally i think it's wrong to be bashing him for the money he's "wasted".

In the time that Rafa's been with us Fergie and the Chavs managers have wasted a lot much more.


[/quote]

And we had the guts of a Champions League winning squad when Rafa began.
[/quote]

I'll always treasure that win Rosco, but you do remember how we got on in the league that season? We'll never see a team with so many obvious weak areas win the CL again.
 
[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36862.msg976052#msg976052 date=1257015695]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976033#msg976033 date=1257014801]
I give up.

Rafa has never had any money to spend, it's all the Americans, Rick Parry and the media's fault.

Rafa is great.
[/quote]

I just don't believe you Ross.
[/quote]

No, no. He's right.

For example, did you all know that it's actually Tom Hicks, cunningly disguised as Rafa who runs the show from the bench each week, making those team selections and substitutions. Mean while, the real Rafa is trapped in a magical treasure chest, shivering and waiting for Rafa4PM to finally discover his location and set him free, having first disposed of Mad-Eye Gillette.
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36862.msg976048#msg976048 date=1257015475]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976046#msg976046 date=1257015405]
Yer Sheik we did and deserved it, but to get that level of performance evry week we need better quality players to provide consistenlty good performances
[/quote]

But we don't play Utd every week. We play teams we've spent lots more money than.
[/quote]

Yer exactly Sheik, and were getting exactly what we deserve we have a decent squad with some great players, but too pull it off every week against ther lesser teams, needs players to play at a high level consistently, people shouldn't expect results every week were a good team not a great one
 
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36862.msg976049#msg976049 date=1257015569]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36862.msg976039#msg976039 date=1257015106]
[quote author=rebel23 link=topic=36862.msg976038#msg976038 date=1257015045]
a new manager wouldn't make a diff.
[/quote]

How do you know?
[/quote]

*Taps fingers impatiently*
[/quote]

because he would face the same decisions, constaints, injuries, challenges etc. and he's probably not as good or as decorated as Benitez so you get rid of a manage for a poor run of form careful what you wish for
 
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976060#msg976060 date=1257015891]
[quote author=Sheik Yerbouti link=topic=36862.msg976048#msg976048 date=1257015475]
[quote author=krissr link=topic=36862.msg976046#msg976046 date=1257015405]
Yer Sheik we did and deserved it, but to get that level of performance evry week we need better quality players to provide consistenlty good performances
[/quote]

But we don't play Utd every week. We play teams we've spent lots more money than.
[/quote]

Yer exactly Sheik, and were getting exactly what we deserve we have a decent squad with some great players, but too pull it off every week against ther lesser teams, needs players to play at a high level consistently, people shouldn't expect results every week were a good team not a great one
[/quote]

And who's fault is it, along with their players, if the team cannot get motivated for the lesser opposition like they can for the big names?

Especially if you ARE one of the big names yourself and most of your games are "lesser".
 
You know what I reckon,

Rafa is fuckin with the team to make us look shite, play shite.

His reason, to put pressure on the yanks..... No League Title, No Champion League = Yanks pressured to sell.

You may think I am mad, but..... They cant sack him either.

Is Rafa playing a very clever game?
 
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976066#msg976066 date=1257016190]
You know what I reckon,

Rafa is fuckin with the team to make us look shite, play shite.

His reason, to put pressure on the yanks..... No League Title, No Champion League = Yanks pressured to sell.

You may think I am mad, but..... They cant sack him either.

Is Rafa playing a very clever game?
[/quote]

No he's just not half as good a manager as people think he is.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976067#msg976067 date=1257016300]
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976066#msg976066 date=1257016190]
You know what I reckon,

Rafa is fuckin with the team to make us look shite, play shite.

His reason, to put pressure on the yanks..... No League Title, No Champion League = Yanks pressured to sell.

You may think I am mad, but..... They cant sack him either.

Is Rafa playing a very clever game?
[/quote]

No he's just not half as good a manager as people think he is.
[/quote]

You may be right, but what the fuck was the reasoning in playing Degen and Krygiakos today?
 
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976068#msg976068 date=1257016396]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976067#msg976067 date=1257016300]
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976066#msg976066 date=1257016190]
You know what I reckon,

Rafa is fuckin with the team to make us look shite, play shite.

His reason, to put pressure on the yanks..... No League Title, No Champion League = Yanks pressured to sell.

You may think I am mad, but..... They cant sack him either.

Is Rafa playing a very clever game?
[/quote]

No he's just not half as good a manager as people think he is.
[/quote]

You may be right, but what the fuck was the reasoning in playing Degen and Krygiakos today?
[/quote]

GJ, Agger and Skrtel all went on holiday.
 
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976067#msg976067 date=1257016300]
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976066#msg976066 date=1257016190]
You know what I reckon,

Rafa is fuckin with the team to make us look shite, play shite.

His reason, to put pressure on the yanks..... No League Title, No Champion League = Yanks pressured to sell.

You may think I am mad, but..... They cant sack him either.

Is Rafa playing a very clever game?
[/quote]

No he's just not half as good a manager as people think he is.
[/quote]

Or he could simply be an incredibly stubborn person who will persist with his plan even when it's clearly not working, because if it's his plan, it couldn't be failing, no matter what those flippin' results show...
 
[quote author=Rafa4PM link=topic=36862.msg976070#msg976070 date=1257016490]
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976068#msg976068 date=1257016396]
[quote author=Rosco link=topic=36862.msg976067#msg976067 date=1257016300]
[quote author=Bernowatson link=topic=36862.msg976066#msg976066 date=1257016190]
You know what I reckon,

Rafa is fuckin with the team to make us look shite, play shite.

His reason, to put pressure on the yanks..... No League Title, No Champion League = Yanks pressured to sell.

You may think I am mad, but..... They cant sack him either.

Is Rafa playing a very clever game?
[/quote]

No he's just not half as good a manager as people think he is.
[/quote]

You may be right, but what the fuck was the reasoning in playing Degen and Krygiakos today?
[/quote]

GJ, Agger and Skrtel all went on holiday.
[/quote]

Perhaps they wanted to get their Xmas shopping out the way
 
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