You are either in or your out

[gene hughes]

He also managed Porto winning the league and European Cup (and has won the league with Inter).

He took Chelsea, an expensively assembled squad that hadn't won the league and turned them into an expensively assembled squad that won the league twice in a row.

 

[Squiggles]

Nobody is doubting Jose's credentials, but he's not the miracle worker he's made out to be at times.

If DB has said his Chelsea side did have a real togetherness about them and it's an attribute he'd bring to the club, then I'd be inclined to agree.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg976951#msg976951 date=1257132328]
He also managed Porto winning the league and European Cup (and has won the league with Inter).

He took Chelsea, an expensively assembled squad that hadn't won the league and turned them into an expensively assembled squad that won the league twice in a row.
[/quote]

Yea, those are irrefutable facts, the idea that he's got some aura that gives everyone on his team +10 to footballing ability isnt.

 

[RolandG]

Capello is about the only manager I would want in if Rafa goes. Everybody goes gaga about Mourinho and his achievements but he has always inherited good teams. When has he ever built up a team?

Rafa has come in for intense scrutiny but people have short memories. He has had to contend with building the club from the foundation up with a shoe string. When has he had the luxury of going out and getting his first choice players other than Torres and Johnson? Look at the dire financial situation we have been in since his appointment, then look at the evolution of the squad. First it was bringing in players just to shore up the numbers. Once he had sufficient bodies, he had to look and improved quality and even then itwas 3rd or 4th choice players that arrived.

Yes, we don't have the strongest squad in the top 4 or even 6, but we have to make do. Some players in the squad aren't fit to wear the prized RED jersey and the precocious talent in the youth ranks are a fair way off.

Nobody likes what's going on and we should scream from the rafter when we are losing and on a diabolical run such as is evident. This is the mighty Liverpool after all. However, let's not lose sight of the fact that while Rafa is not perfect, his hands are tied financially. The truth is that spending power in the Premiership makes a massive difference and the truth has come home to roost, where we are essentially regarded as also rans this early in the season.

 

[Glock21]

Just like what i predicted last week. People is slowly agreeing with me.

Its up to you children. Rafael or LFC? If you love Rafael so much, follow him to the next club he manage. Simple as.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36862.msg976950#msg976950 date=1257132094]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976944#msg976944 date=1257130549]
He would get the best out of every player in the squad and make the shit look average, the average look good, and the good look great.

That's what he'd do.
[/quote]

He makes everyone better? Is that actually your analysis?

Shaun Wright Phillips fucking loved it there didn't he. He was so vastly improved that he's back where he started, being productive again.

Kezman, Ferreira, Shevchenko, Boulahrouz

He's had just as mixed a transfer record as Benitez, and when he didn't get the right personnel, he didn't magically make them better, he had a shitload of money to redeem it though.
[/quote]

As an overall he did get the best out of most players and remember he did not want Shevchenko. If he was left in control of transfers at Chelsea football club I've no doubt he would still be there and they would have won more league titles.

Every manager messes up some players and some transfers Jose included. However the bottom line is he played a winning style of football in terms of the league. He won back to back titles.

Rafa has been here almost 6 years now and his style got us to 2nd once. Every other year his style has played us out of the race by November. He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.

It's time to move on from Rafa if we can financially afford it. If not we have to bare another 4 years without a title and watch as Utd pass us by as I cannot see us winning a league with him in charge.

Maybe I'll be wrong and that would be best day for me as a supporter excluding Istanbul but I cannot see it. It's Ged all over again.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=RolandG link=topic=36862.msg976961#msg976961 date=1257138609]
Capello is about the only manager I would want in if Rafa goes. Everybody goes gaga about Mourinho and his achievements but he has always inherited good teams. When has he ever built up a team?

Rafa has come in for intense scrutiny but people have short memories. He has had to contend with building the club from the foundation up with a shoe string. When has he had the luxury of going out and getting his first choice players other than Torres and Johnson? Look at the dire financial situation we have been in since his appointment, then look at the evolution of the squad. First it was bringing in players just to shore up the numbers. Once he had sufficient bodies, he had to look and improved quality and even then itwas 3rd or 4th choice players that arrived.

Yes, we don't have the strongest squad in the top 4 or even 6, but we have to make do. Some players in the squad aren't fit to wear the prized RED jersey and the precocious talent in the youth ranks are a fair way off.

Nobody likes what's going on and we should scream from the rafter when we are losing and on a diabolical run such as is evident. This is the mighty Liverpool after all. However, let's not lose sight of the fact that while Rafa is not perfect, his hands are tied financially. The truth is that spending power in the Premiership makes a massive difference and the truth has come home to roost, where we are essentially regarded as also rans this early in the season.
[/quote]

Shoestring me bollox.

 

[Farkmaster]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976970#msg976970 date=1257139797]
That's what he'd do.

He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.
[/quote]


Benitez wasn't brought in to challenge the league from day one. We were miles away then, and that would never have been a realistic target. We are nowhere near as far away as when he took over, we're just on an abysmal run of form.

Mourinho makes everyone better? Is that actually your analysis?

Shaun Wright Phillips fucking loved it there didn't he. He was so vastly improved that he's back where he started, being productive again.

Kezman, Ferreira, Shevchenko, Boulahrouz

He's had just as mixed a transfer record as Benitez, and when he didn't get the right personnel, he didn't magically make them better, he had a shitload of money to redeem it though.

If Mourinho came here, he'd want some latitude to clear out what he perceived to be the waste. It'd require cash. He could get that at any one of a number of top clubs who'd love to have him, and they might not have owners that can only tolerate each other for 45 minutes at a go.

 

[keniget]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976970#msg976970 date=1257139797]
As an overall he did get the best out of most players and remember he did not want Shevchenko. If he was left in control of transfers at Chelsea football club I've no doubt he would still be there and they would have won more league titles.

Every manager messes up some players and some transfers Jose included. However the bottom line is he played a winning style of football in terms of the league. He won back to back titles.

Rafa has been here almost 6 years now and his style got us to 2nd once. Every other year his style has played us out of the race by November. He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.

It's time to move on from Rafa if we can financially afford it. If not we have to bare another 4 years without a title and watch as Utd pass us by as I cannot see us winning a league with him in charge.

Maybe I'll be wrong and that would be best day for me as a supporter excluding Istanbul but I cannot see it. It's Ged all over again.
[/quote]

What's his style?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=36862.msg976963#msg976963 date=1257138826]
Just like what i predicted last week. People is slowly agreeing with me.

Its up to you children. Rafael or LFC? If you love Rafael so much, follow him to the next club he manage. Simple as.
[/quote]Never. Ill never join you. You've failed youre shiteness.
I'm a supporter like my father before me.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36862.msg976996#msg976996 date=1257148287]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976970#msg976970 date=1257139797]
As an overall he did get the best out of most players and remember he did not want Shevchenko. If he was left in control of transfers at Chelsea football club I've no doubt he would still be there and they would have won more league titles.

Every manager messes up some players and some transfers Jose included. However the bottom line is he played a winning style of football in terms of the league. He won back to back titles.

Rafa has been here almost 6 years now and his style got us to 2nd once. Every other year his style has played us out of the race by November. He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.

It's time to move on from Rafa if we can financially afford it. If not we have to bare another 4 years without a title and watch as Utd pass us by as I cannot see us winning a league with him in charge.

Maybe I'll be wrong and that would be best day for me as a supporter excluding Istanbul but I cannot see it. It's Ged all over again.
[/quote]

What's his style?
[/quote]Jazz fusion.

 

[Fallon]

Andy, put me on the list bud. Even if we haven't got a hope in hell of winning the league (which despite the sensationalist bullshit over the last few days, we still do), I want in as much as any other reason because I'd rather be called a loon than be in the same camp as Glock, Rage, DB and countless other muppets.

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Fallon link=topic=36862.msg977017#msg977017 date=1257150358]
Andy, put me on the list bud. Even if we haven't got a hope in hell of winning the league (which despite the sensationalist bullshit over the last few days, we still do), I want in as much as any other reason because I'd rather be called a loon than be in the same camp as Glock, Rage, DB and countless other muppets.
[/quote]Hahaha im sorry my son, that just doesnt make you a devotee. Speak to Spion, i believe he is setting up some sub standard ramshackle organisation.

 

[Fallon]

Lol, that one post doesn't, but my post from 'Closes door' does 😉

 

[Pesam]

I'm still 100% behind Rafa and am convinced that he will win us the league (maybe even this season).

I predicted we'd lose to Sunderland and then beat United, I also predicted that after we lost to Sunderland people would start to right us off and then when we beat United the "experts" would say we're still in with a chance.

This weekend I predicted we wouldn't beat Fulham (as evidenced by my bet on the betting forum) and yet I still maintain that IF we get Gerrard, Aquilani and Johnson back fit soon and we have a decent run regarding future injuries that we are stillcapable of winning the league.

We have a better first eleven than United and we are marginally better than Chelsea IMO. Arsenal's first eleven is about as strong as ours but they too struggle with squad depth and also lack a bit of fight.

We have not had such a strong first 11 for over 20 years and players like Gerrard, Torres, Agger, Reina, Mascher, Johnson, Aquilani, Kuyt, Benayoun and carra have Premier League Champions written all over them.

Judge Rafa when he has near-enough a full team to choose from.

By the way I predict we will lose to Lyon and the anti-Rafa brigade will be out in force again but the majority of us know that getting rid of Rafa will not only be a mistake but could set us back many years. Success is close at hand - keep the faith.

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=Farkmaster link=topic=36862.msg976978#msg976978 date=1257141310]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976970#msg976970 date=1257139797]
That's what he'd do.

He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.
[/quote]


Benitez wasn't brought in to challenge the league from day one. We were miles away then, and that would never have been a realistic target. We are nowhere near as far away as when he took over, we're just on an abysmal run of form.

Mourinho makes everyone better? Is that actually your analysis?

Shaun Wright Phillips fucking loved it there didn't he. He was so vastly improved that he's back where he started, being productive again.

Kezman, Ferreira, Shevchenko, Boulahrouz

He's had just as mixed a transfer record as Benitez, and when he didn't get the right personnel, he didn't magically make them better, he had a shitload of money to redeem it though.

If Mourinho came here, he'd want some latitude to clear out what he perceived to be the waste. It'd require cash. He could get that at any one of a number of top clubs who'd love to have him, and they might not have owners that can only tolerate each other for 45 minutes at a go.


[/quote]

Go and check the press conference where he was unvailed.
Parry said Rafa was hired as he had proven in Spain that he could win the league against teams with more money and player pulling power.

He saw our situation with Utd and Arsenal as being similar with Valencia's and Barca's and Real.

He said he brought in Rafa as he wanted a manager who could get Liverpool to challenge in the league from day one.

Jose isn't god but I think he would get more out of current squad than Rafa can. He did at Porto, he did at Chelsea and he's doing it at Inter.

Rafa has gotten 5 years and after a great cup run in the his first season he hasn't done enough in my opinion and is going backwards fast.

Season 6 will end with us just as far from the title as when he took over. So yes I think Mourinho would do better.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36862.msg977018#msg977018 date=1257150581]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=36862.msg977017#msg977017 date=1257150358]
Andy, put me on the list bud. Even if we haven't got a hope in hell of winning the league (which despite the sensationalist bullshit over the last few days, we still do), I want in as much as any other reason because I'd rather be called a loon than be in the same camp as Glock, Rage, DB and countless other muppets.
[/quote]Hahaha im sorry my son, that just doesnt make you a devotee. Speak to Spion, i believe he is setting up some sub standard ramshackle organisation.
[/quote]

Look Mugabe! You changed your tune and then changed it back again. Me and the Sheik have usurped your power. There is no "sub standard ramshackle organisation" there is only this one.

Thanks for setting it up and all that, but simply, we're in charge now. We'll give you a peerage or something as a thank you?

*sips large dram of single malt*

😉

 

[LeTallecWiz]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg977207#msg977207 date=1257171067]
So yes I think Mourinho would do better.
[/quote]

Mourinho took over Chelsea and Inter and won leagues with them.

Care to tell me the difference between Chelsea/Inter and Liverpool situations?

 

[The Slugmonster]

[/quote]

Mourinho took over Chelsea and Inter and won leagues with them.

Care to tell me the difference between Chelsea/Inter and Liverpool situations?
[/quote]

Mourinho walked into a ready made situations. Mancini left a team that had won seia a the season before. And abramovic opened his wallet and said here ya go turn this into a league title. Rafa took over a squad of lepers...

 

[gene hughes]

Gerrard, Riise, Hyypia, Finnan, Hamann, Owen and probably a few others I'm forgetting are certainly not lepers.

 

[gkmacca]

[quote author=Glock link=topic=36862.msg976963#msg976963 date=1257138826]
Just like what i predicted last week. People is slowly agreeing with me.

Its up to you children. Rafael or LFC? If you love Rafael so much, follow him to the next club he manage. Simple as.
[/quote]

Rubbery.

 

[rage]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg977236#msg977236 date=1257174387]
Gerrard, Riise, Hyypia, Finnan, Hamann, Owen and probably a few others I'm forgetting are certainly not lepers.
[/quote]

the truth has nothing to do with the way rafa revisionists will try and present the situation. didn't you know we were fighting relegation when rafa took over. didn't you realise rafa did us a favour coming to manage us?

 

[Tinto]

[quote author=gene hughes link=topic=36862.msg977236#msg977236 date=1257174387]
Gerrard, Riise, Hyypia, Finnan, Hamann, Owen and probably a few others I'm forgetting are certainly not lepers.
[/quote]

You've left out Carra and Owen was going, but they were no lepers. You are right.

Still they were averaging around mid 60 point mark in the league and struggling to make much head way in the UEFA Cup, which is rather different to the Chelsea that Mourhino inherited, isn't it?

 

[Oncy]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=36862.msg977214#msg977214 date=1257171991]
[quote author=Herr Onceared link=topic=36862.msg977018#msg977018 date=1257150581]
[quote author=Fallon link=topic=36862.msg977017#msg977017 date=1257150358]
Andy, put me on the list bud. Even if we haven't got a hope in hell of winning the league (which despite the sensationalist bullshit over the last few days, we still do), I want in as much as any other reason because I'd rather be called a loon than be in the same camp as Glock, Rage, DB and countless other muppets.
[/quote]Hahaha im sorry my son, that just doesnt make you a devotee. Speak to Spion, i believe he is setting up some sub standard ramshackle organisation.
[/quote]

Look Mugabe! You changed your tune and then changed it back again. Me and the Sheik have usurped your power. There is no "sub standard ramshackle organisation" there is only this one.

Thanks for setting it up and all that, but simply, we're in charge now. We'll give you a peerage or something as a thank you?

*sips large dram of single malt*

😉
[/quote]Sheik will destroy your organisation you trusting fool. He is Loki hell bent on mischief. How can you not see that.
You will fail.
My organisation is forever.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=keniget link=topic=36862.msg976996#msg976996 date=1257148287]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976970#msg976970 date=1257139797]
As an overall he did get the best out of most players and remember he did not want Shevchenko. If he was left in control of transfers at Chelsea football club I've no doubt he would still be there and they would have won more league titles.

Every manager messes up some players and some transfers Jose included. However the bottom line is he played a winning style of football in terms of the league. He won back to back titles.

Rafa has been here almost 6 years now and his style got us to 2nd once. Every other year his style has played us out of the race by November. He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.

It's time to move on from Rafa if we can financially afford it. If not we have to bare another 4 years without a title and watch as Utd pass us by as I cannot see us winning a league with him in charge.

Maybe I'll be wrong and that would be best day for me as a supporter excluding Istanbul but I cannot see it. It's Ged all over again.
[/quote]

What's his style?
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm keen to hear this one too.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=36862.msg978129#msg978129 date=1257288580]
[quote author=keniget link=topic=36862.msg976996#msg976996 date=1257148287]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg976970#msg976970 date=1257139797]
As an overall he did get the best out of most players and remember he did not want Shevchenko. If he was left in control of transfers at Chelsea football club I've no doubt he would still be there and they would have won more league titles.

Every manager messes up some players and some transfers Jose included. However the bottom line is he played a winning style of football in terms of the league. He won back to back titles.

Rafa has been here almost 6 years now and his style got us to 2nd once. Every other year his style has played us out of the race by November. He was brought in to challenge in the league from day 1.

We are now at something like day 3000 and we as far away now as we were when he took over.

It's time to move on from Rafa if we can financially afford it. If not we have to bare another 4 years without a title and watch as Utd pass us by as I cannot see us winning a league with him in charge.

Maybe I'll be wrong and that would be best day for me as a supporter excluding Istanbul but I cannot see it. It's Ged all over again.
[/quote]

What's his style?
[/quote]

Yeah, I'm keen to hear this one too.

[/quote]


Not to lose!

I thought we established that quite some time ago - you guys need to try and keep up. 😉

 

[Dreambeliever]

[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36862.msg977217#msg977217 date=1257172080]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg977207#msg977207 date=1257171067]
So yes I think Mourinho would do better.
[/quote]

Mourinho took over Chelsea and Inter and won leagues with them.

Care to tell me the difference between Chelsea/Inter and Liverpool situations?
[/quote]

Of course Money however he took Porto above and beyond there normal status by wining first the leauge and Uefa cup double and then the CL and league double.

Again with Chelsea he got them to a level they had not been at before, and now at Inter he is going for back to back league titles.

I think he would take us to a new level ie winning the league.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg978223#msg978223 date=1257306397]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36862.msg977217#msg977217 date=1257172080]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg977207#msg977207 date=1257171067]
So yes I think Mourinho would do better.
[/quote]

Mourinho took over Chelsea and Inter and won leagues with them.

Care to tell me the difference between Chelsea/Inter and Liverpool situations?
[/quote]

Of course Money however he took Porto above and beyond there normal status by wining first the leauge and Uefa cup double and then the CL and league double.

Again with Chelsea he got them to a level they had not been at before, and now at Inter he is going for back to back league titles.

I think he would take us to a new level ie winning the league.
[/quote]

Inter had won Serie A for the 2 years prior to him joining. He hasn't improved their Champions League record one iota either.

And if you're going to use his achievements at Porto as a yarstick, then one could counteract by providing Rafa's equally impressive record at Valencia when achieving success against similar odds.

Proclaiming 'Rafa out, Jose in' is taking simplistic debate and boiling it down further to levels even a fucking 2 year old could converse at. Which doesn't surprise.
It ignores a fucking billion obtusive points, all of which fly in the face of your completelyunrealistic expectations and wishes. Let's just focus on one for now though eh?

The financials required to not only remove Rafa, but to prise away Mourinho from his extremely lengthy and wealthy Inter contract. At a stab in the dark, it'd involve the best part of 30M to do even that (all whilst completely ignoring whether the Portugese would even want to a - leave Inter, and/or b -come to us), and given that we had to scrape togethor 1.5M to buy a fucking geriatric Greek centre-back a few months back, i think it's safe to say that it's just a touch unlikely Dreamy.

You great big clown.

Feel free to ignore all of this though. I won't be in the slighest bit suprirsed.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg978223#msg978223 date=1257306397]
[quote author=LeTallecWiz link=topic=36862.msg977217#msg977217 date=1257172080]
[quote author=Dreambeliever link=topic=36862.msg977207#msg977207 date=1257171067]
So yes I think Mourinho would do better.
[/quote]

Mourinho took over Chelsea and Inter and won leagues with them.

Care to tell me the difference between Chelsea/Inter and Liverpool situations?
[/quote]

Of course Money however he took Porto above and beyond there normal status by wining first the leauge and Uefa cup double and then the CL and league double.

Again with Chelsea he got them to a level they had not been at before, and now at Inter he is going for back to back league titles.

I think he would take us to a new level ie winning the league.
[/quote]

That's a black and white view, really.

This isn't a Porto situation where he can come into the Premiership and win without money, this is now one of (if not THE) most strongest league in the World. He would have to compete with the financial power of City, Chelsea, United, Arsenal (which is gonna happen) and Spurs, while at our current rate he would be working on a shoestring, while demanding a top whack contract for the pleasure.

We haven't got a team that can instantly be turned into a title winning team, because we need depth, and despite what people are believing, his transfer record WAS very hit and miss, and still is. Most of his good players at Chelsea were already there, so there's nothing to suggest he could come in and operate on a shoestring and add that depth we need with the perfect level of quality to succeed.

Add that he's also been found wanting (in terms of not knowing what to say or how to react when found wanting) and it all leads us to assume that whoever we bring in, it's gonna be a gamble and in no way a given that we'll succeed.

We need stability and we need to ride the storm and fuck off the hierarchy and go from there.

Rafa's fucked up, be he's had so much shit thrown his way this season that NO ONE could have accounted for.

 

[darkstarexodus]

I don't understand why we're even having this debate. Club will be fine soon as Dan Petrescu takes the helm.