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Xabi Alonso

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I honestly don't think he has made any decision. He will sit with his family and make a decision after consulting them. The family have been in Germany for just over year having been in Spain for 4 years before that.
I don't think he will choose Bayern after being at BL.... Its us and the huge salary the BL cannot match or stay put. If he does leave, I'm sure he will be asked not to poach any talent from BL
 
Top managers and players have a winning mentality (for some delusion) that they're better than everyone else. He probably thinks he could get our team playing better than Klopp. We don't want him if he's scared of managing after Klopp. We want him to be our new Paisley, taking over Shankly's team.
And as said, Bayern will be on their 8th manager in 8 years as of this summer. Xabi knows Liverpool FC and its supporters, and absolutely knows he'll get time should he not be incredibly successful from the start. At Bayern, he'll be sacked if he doesn't win the league, and managers there can get the sack if they underperform in Europe even if they win the league.
Liverpool is the best choice for him.

Yeah I agree - but all managers think they’re the beez neez - Brodgers would suck himself off if he could and that owl faced fucker we had the misfortune of having as a manager for a brief but still too long period, us always at pains to talk about his fucking good he is or was.

Even useless cunts like Fat Sam think they’re it quality.

You’ve got to figure he’d look at Bayern and decide he’s the guy to sort them out and win everything with them, as much as he thinks he can better Klopp’s legacy.

Again - those 8 managers are a tiny bit misleading - definitely something not right though.

I’m not sure whether it’s players rather than results that are getting managers sacked - seems to be a lot of consistent “don’t like managers methods” chat that goes on.

Anyway, the threat of getting sacked isn’t going to deter him like filling Klopp’s shoes isn’t likely to deter him.

I’ve no idea what he’ll decide - he might decide it’s too soon and stay at BL.
 
I think you’re overstating that a bit, while there’s clearly something not quite right at BM a fair few of that 8 were only temp managers. They do seem to loose a lot of Managers for, what I’d consider non-footballing reasons.

I don’t think it’s an “awful” career move - might not be the best, but let’s face it, there are worse places he could move to - Barca, Chelsea, Utd….

I don’t think it’s as easy or as clear cut a decision as many think - but it’s not like I have any more of an idea than you.

Since 1998 only 1 manager has been there longer than 3 years. Of the last 7 managers only one has been a caretaker.
Its an awful career move for a young manager, imho. Just read the stories why Nagelsmann got fired.
 
It'll be a shame when Alonso's plane is shot out of the sky by the Russians when they're flying to Azerbaijan.
 
I think you’re overstating that a bit, while there’s clearly something not quite right at BM a fair few of that 8 were only temp managers. They do seem to loose a lot of Managers for, what I’d consider non-footballing reasons.

I don’t think it’s an “awful” career move - might not be the best, but let’s face it, there are worse places he could move to - Barca, Chelsea, Utd….

I don’t think it’s as easy or as clear cut a decision as many think - but it’s not like I have any more of an idea than you.
If he goes to Bayern he’s a dick for a number of reasons…or perhaps he can’t resist the lure of coaching Eric Dier in his prime..
 
Xabi might also be thinking that Klopp is a tough act to follow, and if he has ambitions to be here one day, he might wait for someone else to have a go first
 
But on the other hand the current job is set up to succeed now. Thats a factor you dont know if will be there in the future.
 
I honestly don't think he has made any decision. He will sit with his family and make a decision after consulting them. The family have been in Germany for just over year having been in Spain for 4 years before that.
I don't think he will choose Bayern after being at BL.... Its us and the huge salary the BL cannot match or stay put. If he does leave, I'm sure he will be asked not to poach any talent from BL
I doubt the poaching bit will apply. At Dortmund the situation was different, Dortmund aren't a small club, however Leverkusen need big money transfer fees and I'm certain they would rather players, such as Wirtz or Frimpong, go to the PL than to Bayern ... and likely for higher fees too.
 
Xabi might also be thinking that Klopp is a tough act to follow, and if he has ambitions to be here one day, he might wait for someone else to have a go first
We have a great squad that we will spend to supplement. I can't think of a better time to come here than now. We are primed for the next 2-3 seasons at least (when the likes of Mo., Robbo and Virgil will likely depart, assuming Mo hasn't left before then).
 
The undead????

Thiago going back is he?
He currently clocked up 10 mins for his £10m this season. Can't see him persuading anyone to take him on 'free' or not.

Even if it was on a pay-when-you-play contract he still takes up an overseas slot (outside of Spain)
 
Since 1998 only 1 manager has been there longer than 3 years. Of the last 7 managers only one has been a caretaker.
Its an awful career move for a young manager, imho. Just read the stories why Nagelsmann got fired.

Technically Heynckes wasn’t a “caretaker” but he was only a temporary appointment. Sagnol was.

Did Flick get the flick… or did he leave because he actually wanted the German national job?

Ancelotti & Nagelsman all weirdly seem to have fallen out with someone, Kovac I know fuck all about except his Bayern absolutely smashed Spurs and Tuchel has fallen out with everyone every club he’s ever been at.

End of the day it’s nothing new - barely anyone has hung around that club for more the 3 season in the last 30 years - that doesn’t stop managers from taking it.

Actually, if I’m honest - I wouldn’t be entirely against Xabi proving himself capable of sorting Bayern out and then coming to us in 2-3 years time, more experienced and wiser.

Only problem is, I’ve no fucking idea who should managed us in the interim.
 
He currently clocked up 10 mins for his £10m this season. Can't see him persuading anyone to take him on 'free' or not.

Even if it was on a pay-when-you-play contract he still takes up an overseas slot (outside of Spain)

As manager - they can weekend at Bernie’s his corpse on the bench
 
Technically Heynckes wasn’t a “caretaker” but he was only a temporary appointment. Sagnol was.

Did Flick get the flick… or did he leave because he actually wanted the German national job?

Ancelotti & Nagelsman all weirdly seem to have fallen out with someone, Kovac I know fuck all about except his Bayern absolutely smashed Spurs and Tuchel has fallen out with everyone every club he’s ever been at.

End of the day it’s nothing new - barely anyone has hung around that club for more the 3 season in the last 30 years - that doesn’t stop managers from taking it.

Actually, if I’m honest - I wouldn’t be entirely against Xabi proving himself capable of sorting Bayern out and then coming to us in 2-3 years time, more experienced and wiser.

Only problem is, I’ve no fucking idea who should managed us in the interim.

I think the main issue you can learn from all this when reading about Bayern and how they go through managers, is that there seem to be a set culture within the club with former players and Bavaria in general. If you dont play a certain type of football, behave in a certain way or just dont win in a way that is acceptable - then you're out.
There isnt much of a loyalty or culture in giving managers time to build something. Its winning at all costs and mainly short term.
Thats why I think its an awful job to take as a young manager. Nagelsmann was booted out after 20 months with a win percentage of 71%, 10 losses in 84 games and winning the league in his first season.

If Xabi want to build something long term and stamp his own mark on tactics, football and vision then Bayern isnt the place to be.
Hence why I dont think he wants to go there if given the choice between us and Bayern.
 
We have a great squad that we will spend to supplement. I can't think of a better time to come here than now. We are primed for the next 2-3 seasons at least (when the likes of Mo., Robbo and Virgil will likely depart, assuming Mo hasn't left before then).

I agree. Just think the Klopp effect is a hard / impossible task to follow. He is a generational managerial legend for this clubl.

Those who followed us in the 60s/70s will say Shankly is their greatest
Those who followed us in 90s - 20s will say Klopp is their greatest
 
I agree. Just think the Klopp effect is a hard / impossible task to follow. He is a generational managerial legend for this clubl.

Those who followed us in the 60s/70s will say Shankly is their greatest
Those who followed us in 90s - 20s will say Klopp is their greatest
I don’t think people really expected Paisley to do even better than Shanks (in terms of trophies and Europe) at the time, but he did. Let us dream.
 
From the BBC

Next Liverpool manager: Who is best suited to succeed Klopp? The computer says...​

Last updated on2 hours ago2 hours ago.From the sectionLiverpool

Jurgen Klopp

Liverpool will have a new manager at the helm this summer for the first time since October 2015, after Jurgen Klopp revealed he would be stepping down at the end of the season.
And, as the popular Reds boss bids to win the club's first trophy of the campaign in Sunday's Carabao Cup final against Chelsea, the speculation continues about who could possibly be his successor.
Klopp has won all the major trophies in his Anfield tenure and Liverpool are top of the Premier League and still in the FA Cup and Europa League.
Carteret Analytics - which provides detailed manager assessments to Premier League, EFL, Bundesliga and MLS clubs - has assessed a series of possible candidates, as well as Klopp, to see who would do the best job.
The company says: "Not only has Klopp achieved significant success over the past six seasons in terms of results, his individual metrics demonstrate an exceptionally high level of 'football intelligence'.
"For example, his strategic intelligence rating is very high. His tactical command rating is even better."
If you are wondering what strategic intelligence and tactical command are, read on. For in working out the person to replace Klopp, it's all about the metrics.
Former Reds midfielder Xabi Alonso, also a favourite to replace Thomas Tuchel at Bayern Munich, has dominated much of the discussion after leading Bayer Leverkusen to the top of the Bundesliga, but is he really the man to start a new Anfield era?
We list the candidates in order of their suitability according to Carteret's analysis, based on a number of key metrics to give an objective sense of the strengths and weaknesses for each head coach.
(The findings are based on actual results that have been achieved over the past six seasons, incrementally weighted towards the most recent seasons, and relative to the strength of the league in which those results have been achieved.)
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]Ratings for each manager[/TH]
[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]

[TH][/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Manager[/TD]
[TD]Objective achievement[/TD]
[TD]Strategic intelligence[/TD]
[TD]Tactical command[/TD]
[TD]Attacking coefficient[/TD]
[TD]Success-adjusted attacking coefficient[/TD]
[TD]Shot conversion[/TD]
[TD]Shot creation[/TD]
[TD]Overall possession home/ away[/TD]
[TD]Overall rating[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Jurgen Klopp[/TD]
[TD]568.90[/TD]
[TD]75.93[/TD]
[TD]6.39[/TD]
[TD]27.59[/TD]
[TD]20.95[/TD]
[TD]43.95[/TD]
[TD]1.68 : 1[/TD]
[TD]64 / 60[/TD]
[TD]151.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ruben Amorim[/TD]
[TD]486.90[/TD]
[TD]84.26[/TD]
[TD]6.58[/TD]
[TD]25.14[/TD]
[TD]21.31[/TD]
[TD]40.09[/TD]
[TD]2.64 : 1[/TD]
[TD]60 / 61[/TD]
[TD]144.7[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Julian Nagelsmann[/TD]
[TD]429.20[/TD]
[TD]98.04[/TD]
[TD]3.76[/TD]
[TD]20.49[/TD]
[TD]18.93[/TD]
[TD]40.54[/TD]
[TD]2.13 : 1[/TD]
[TD]68 / 63[/TD]
[TD]128.0[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Thomas Tuchel[/TD]
[TD]511.10[/TD]
[TD]74.19[/TD]
[TD]3.65[/TD]
[TD]20.52[/TD]
[TD]15.13[/TD]
[TD]35.26[/TD]
[TD]2.57 : 1[/TD]
[TD]61 / 64[/TD]
[TD]119.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Ange Postecoglou[/TD]
[TD]362.70[/TD]
[TD]72.22[/TD]
[TD]5.11[/TD]
[TD]23.18[/TD]
[TD]17.11[/TD]
[TD]45.83[/TD]
[TD]1.61 : 1[/TD]
[TD]64 / 65[/TD]
[TD]116.5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Xabi Alonso[/TD]
[TD]257.60[/TD]
[TD]75.00[/TD]
[TD]4.89[/TD]
[TD]22.65[/TD]
[TD]16.59[/TD]
[TD]37.86[/TD]
[TD]1.60 : 1[/TD]
[TD]59 / 57[/TD]
[TD]106.9[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roberto de Zerbi[/TD]
[TD]283.30[/TD]
[TD]50.00[/TD]
[TD]2.36[/TD]
[TD]20.98[/TD]
[TD]10.44[/TD]
[TD]31.91[/TD]
[TD]1.45 : 1[/TD]
[TD]63 / 62[/TD]
[TD]71.3[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

How are the managers rated? The metrics defined​

Objective achievement rating: A measure of overall ability based on the premise that the primary objective is to win football matches - rather than, for example, long-term player development or balancing of club finances.
Overall rating (weighted metrics): An overall rating score, based on the actual achievements of the head coach over the past six seasons, but weighted according to their individual performance - so are they overachieving or underachieving in their job?
Strategic intelligence rating: The manager's ability to prepare and set his team, and analyse the opposition, to maximise the chances of winning the next match.
Tactical command rating: A measure of the manager's ability to transform a match (during the match), and, in particular, to develop a winning position for the team from various match scenarios.
Attacking coefficient/success-adjusted attacking coefficient: A measure of the manager's propensity to play an attacking style of football - and the relative impact of the manager's attacking coefficient on the success of the team. Does the style bring wins?
Team shot conversion rating/opposition shot conversion rating: A key metric that highlights a team's ability to increase the probability of winning matches. Are they taking the chances they create?
Shot creation ratio: How many chances a manager's team creates.
Possession: How much of the ball a team has.
Sporting Lisbon manager Ruben Amorim
Sporting Lisbon manager Ruben Amorim has won the Primeira Liga title in 2021 as well as two Taca da Liga trophies with the club

Ruben Amorim (Sporting Lisbon) - even better than the real thing?​

Portuguese manager Amorim, 39, has emerged as Carteret's surprise ideal candidate to take over at Anfield.
His stock has risen after guiding Sporting to their first top-flight title in 19 years in 2021 and Carteret says all the analytics point to him "becoming a very compelling option as the next Liverpool manager".
Those findings make allowances for the fact Amorim's experience is in a less competitive league, but say his strategic intelligence rating, his tactical command rating, success-adjusted attacking coefficient and shot creation ratio are all even higher than Klopp's, with an equivalent shot conversion rating and overall levels of possession.

Julian Nagelsmann (Germany interim manager) - hype, headaches and a patient 'genius'​

The former Bayern Munich boss, 36, took over as Germany manager last September but his contract only runs until July 2024 and he would be available after this summer's European Championship.
He previously shared the same agent as Klopp - Marc Kosicke - and was described by the current Liverpool manager as a "young horse" and a "big, big coaching talent", with Carteret giving him the highest strategic intelligence rating of anyone.
Its findings suggest the German has a defensive approach but one which he makes work for his teams, with a very methodical, patient and probing style of play.
Carteret does point out, though, that his interpersonal skills would need to be researched more fully and that his style of play could become a problem if not winning matches.

Thomas Tuchel (Bayern Munich boss) - defensive in every sense​

With the exception of Klopp, Carteret found Bayern boss Tuchel - who is leaving his post this summer - is "the best of this group of head coaches in demonstrating the ability to win matches at the requisite level" in recent years.
Tuchel rates well in setting up his teams to maximise the probability of winning the next match, but Carteret finds he begins to fall well short of Klopp in his ability to transform matches.
The former Chelsea boss, who led Bayern to the title last season, was also found to have "a very similar defensive style of play as Nagelsmann, and that could prove to be a challenge for Liverpool supporters and for maximising the attacking coefficients of the current Liverpool players".

Ange Postecoglou (Tottenham) - attack, attack, attack... or is it?​

Carteret found some strong similarities between Postecoglou, 58, and Klopp - with strategic intelligence, tactical command, and shot creation ratio broadly equivalent (although all lower than Klopp), as is overall possession.
It finds, though, the subjective perception that he has a very attacking style of play was not borne out by objective analysis. Postecoglou's attacking coefficient (23.18) - 16% lower than Klopp.
Carteret says this indicates a less progressive style of play - and adds that the defensive elements of that style were also less successful.
"When you consider some of the fundamental metrics that indicate, empirically, transferable success traits, he becomes a serious consideration as the next Liverpool manager. However, there are probably even better candidates," Carteret said.

Xabi Alonso (Bayer Leverkusen) - an excellent season but...​


The Football News Show: What are Xabi Alonso's ambitions after Bayer Leverkusen job?
The favourite. But the 42-year-old Spaniard has a completely different style of play to Klopp.
Not only does Alonso play predominantly with three at the back, he is a bit of a 'tinker man', having used six different formations this season alone. Klopp, by comparison, has essentially used slight variations on one formation - an attacking 4-3-3 - a set-up Alonso has only used three times this season.
Carteret also found the pace and attacking set-up of Alonso's teams do not attack or play with as much pace as Klopp's Liverpool. Nor is his style as successful as Klopp's.
Alonso is achieving great results - demonstrating football intelligence in both setting up his team (strategic intelligence) and adjusting his team within matches (tactical command).
Carteret says, though, that these ratings have only been achieved over a very short period of time - and are lower than those of other managers in this list.
"Empirical testing suggests that these football intelligence skills are transferable between clubs and leagues, but it is a risk for Liverpool to appoint a manager with such limited experience," Carteret said.
"When you then layer on a distinct difference in the style of play and approach to tinkering with formations, it becomes a significant risk to appoint Alonso."

Roberto de Zerbi (Brighton) - a passionate style?​

With the exception of his brief stint at Shakhtar Donetsk - when he won two-thirds of his matches and led them to the Ukrainian Super Cup - De Zerbi's teams have been firmly mid-table, Carteret says.
There is not a lot, therefore, in an assessment of his results that suggests he can win the Premier League with Liverpool.
Carteret also found none of his metrics are a match for Klopp. Indeed he is significantly lower across the board - strategic intelligence, tactical command, attacking coefficient and shot conversion.
They say: "De Zerbi has certainly created headlines in the UK (as have Brighton as a club generally), but a fully objective analysis of his performance levels (rather than a subjective view of his approach and personality) illustrates that he falls short significantly (in every key metric) from what is required for the next Liverpool manager."
Long winded quiffer
 
I think the main issue you can learn from all this when reading about Bayern and how they go through managers, is that there seem to be a set culture within the club with former players and Bavaria in general. If you dont play a certain type of football, behave in a certain way or just dont win in a way that is acceptable - then you're out.
There isnt much of a loyalty or culture in giving managers time to build something. Its winning at all costs and mainly short term.
Thats why I think its an awful job to take as a young manager. Nagelsmann was booted out after 20 months with a win percentage of 71%, 10 losses in 84 games and winning the league in his first season.

If Xabi want to build something long term and stamp his own mark on tactics, football and vision then Bayern isnt the place to be.
Hence why I dont think he wants to go there if given the choice between us and Bayern.

This is exactly it imo. Jobs like Bayern and Real just aren't equivalent to manger of Liverpool or Utd. I don't think they've really got any interest in having a manager come in and oversee a long-term project. Like you say, it's not the culture there. They probably even see that constant churn as a positive to some extent, as it keeps everyone on their toes, prevents complacency etc. That might work perfectly fine as a system, but for the actual coach himself, I'd guess the vast majority would prefer a realistic chance of building a settled team, and even a succession of teams.
 
This is exactly it imo. Jobs like Bayern and Real just aren't equivalent to manger of Liverpool or Utd. I don't think they've really got any interest in having a manager come in and oversee a long-term project. Like you say, it's not the culture there. They probably even see that constant churn as a positive to some extent, as it keeps everyone on their toes, prevents complacency etc. That might work perfectly fine as a system, but for the actual coach himself, I'd guess the vast majority would prefer a realistic chance of building a settled team, and even a succession of teams.
It used to work well for Chelsea too ... not so much, these days
 
I agree. Just think the Klopp effect is a hard / impossible task to follow. He is a generational managerial legend for this clubl.

Those who followed us in the 60s/70s will say Shankly is their greatest
Those who followed us in 90s - 20s will say Klopp is their greatest
And we know who came after Shanks ! It is written.
 
I don’t think people really expected Paisley to do even better than Shanks (in terms of trophies and Europe) at the time, but he did. Let us dream.
For me Paisley is the best manager of all time (eclipsing Ferguson). Shanks laid the groundwork but 20 trophies in 9 seasons is unprecedented and will likely never be surpassed (Guardiola has 10 in 6 seasons and just the 1 CL, he'd have to go some to beat Bob - and Bob didn't cheat) and is one of just two men to have won 3 European Cups.
 
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Regarding Bayern Munich's turnover of managers, I think the issue was with Salihamidzic.

His reign as Sporting Director was from 31 July 2017 to 27 May 2023. During this period of time, excluding Ancelotti who was already in charge and was subsequently sacked by him, there were 1 caretaker + 5 head coaches appointed (inc. Tuchel).

During his predecessor Sammer's reign from 2012 to 2016, Heynckes retired while Guardiola left at the end of his contract.

With Christoph Freund and Max Eberl in charge now, there'll be a "reset" (and I think their record at their previous clubs suggests they should be better at their job than Salihamidzic was). They splashed the cash on Min Jae and Kane and still have pretty good core of players at the club.

As for longevity in the job, there are rare exceptions like Simone and Gasperini (besides Klopp and Guardiola, obviously) but the average tenure seems to be ~3 seasons. Guardiola was at Barca and Bayern for 4 and 3 years respectively. Emery's stay during the successful spell at Sevilla was for 3 years. Ever since AC Milan days (8 years), Ancelotti's longest stay is his current 2nd spell at Real Madrid (3rd year). That hasn't stopped them winning silverwares/doing well wherever they go (i.e. ambitious/talented managers don't/shouldn't worry about job security "that" much, but rather focus on the prospects of achieving success).

Regarding Leverkusen fans' reaction if Alonso were to make the move to Bayern Munich, I think they will factor in (if it happens) winning their 1st ever Bundesliga title (and possibly a double or even treble); him being an ex-player there; being used to seeing Bayern being the "bully" and taking away other teams' best properties.

I do not mean to say Alonso should/will choose Bayern ahead of us, just stating why I won't begrudge him if it does happen.
 
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