Why defeat at Spurs was more encouraging for Hodgson than Chelsea, West Ham win

[King Binny]

David Maddock's column

http://www.mirrorfootball.co.uk/opinion/columnists/david-maddock/David-Maddock-column-Why-the-defeat-at-Tottenham-was-more-encouraging-for-Roy-Hodgson-s-Liverpool-than-the-wins-over-Chelsea-and-West-Ham-article641007.html

It may seem strange to get enthusiastic about another Liverpool defeat, but Sunday's performance at Spurs has offered the first real glimmer of hope this season.

Hope, that is, for a better Anfield future, built on the traditions and trademarks of the past. Hope that Liverpool can start believing they are a big club once more, and adopting the tactics associated with one.

Before we get too carried away, this current line up is a long, long way away from that, a long way away, indeed, from even challenging for a top four place, never mind for top honours.

And yet I can still take a little hope from the way that they chose to attack Tottenham on Sunday with two strikers, and an attitude that they were going to take them on in an open game.

It ultimately didn't work, and defeat leaves Liverpool with a difficult winter playing catch-up, especially because of long term injury to Jamie Carragher, who remains a key player at Anfield.

Yet had the referee done his job properly, they would have enjoyed a rare away victory, and with it a position just outside the top four. Dirk Kuyt was fouled for a blatant penalty at a crucial time, and failure to spot it turned the whole game.

But these are small details in a much wider picture. Too many times this season, Liverpool have gone away from home with a defensive set up, looking for a point without any real ambition to pursue all three.

The same can be said of last season, and perhaps many of the seasons over the past decade. Without wishing to denigrate the talents and achievements of Roy Hodgson, Rafa Benitez or Gerrard Houlllier in any way, all three are tacticians, with a calibrated sense of how to stop the opposition.

In the case of Houllier and Benitez, it allowed them major success in Europe, by frustrating on their travels, and then using the power of the Kop to win ties at home. Hodgson too, enjoyed success in the Europa League last season, and in the UEFA Cup with Inter, using similar tactics.

But in the league, it is often a flawed tactic. Last season, Manchester United won 11 Premier League games away from home, Liverpool just five, and that was the essential difference between them in the table.

Of course, United had a better team than Liverpool, and you'd expect them to win more games, but for me, they also had a better mentality... and one which traditionally Liverpool have adopted.

They don't go to places like Birmingham, Wigan and Stoke looking for a single point, as Hodgson's side have done this season, and Benitez's team did last time around. Sure, United risk losing those games, but as their stats from last season show, they won far more than they lost.

Not since Roy Evans was in charge, though, have Liverpool taken the attitude that they must risk losing away from home, by trying to win. Not for more than a decade have they thought they were good enough to win anywhere by playing to their strengths.

This is not a naive analysis, because of course there are times when you need to show defensive strength on your travels. Liverpool wouldn't have won the Champions' League in 2005 without it, nor the UEFA Cup in 2001, and it is necessary to have good tactical coaches like Houllier and Benitez to produce important results such as those achieved in Barcelona or Turin, to name but two.

It is probably sensible to adopt a similar attitude at Old Trafford or Stamford Bridge too, but do Liverpool really need to play that way in every away game?

At Spurs on Sunday, it seemed that Hodgson has decided it is not always necessary, and hats off to him, even if he was unlucky to be defeated. Liverpool fans would love to see their side playing like a top side again, playing with the belief they can win like a top side.

It is that attitude that went some way to winning so many trophies in previous decades for the club, and the same philosophy that has won so many titles for United in the past decade.

As I said, Liverpool are a long way away from winning titles, but they don't need to play like a beaten side every week.

There have been small signs of recovery under Hodgson in recent weeks. The performance against Chelsea was impressive, so too West Ham, but they were both at home. It was the display at Spurs that hinted, gently, at things stirring at Anfield, because it was a heartening mentality as much as performance.

If Hodgson continues with such a plan, and can show that he understands what Liverpool are about even if they don't have the personnel to fully back up such an attitude, then he may yet win the fans over.

Liverpool supporters are all naive dreamers, they know well enough their team has endured problems for some years now, that will not be solved overnight. But they know too that they are still capable of beating most teams.... and they're desperate for a sign that the people in charge believe that too, and can deliver on that philosophy.

 

[Squiggles]

The headline is dramatic nonsense - when we played Chelsea we produced an excellent performance and got the result. There's only so much you can salvage from defeat, because when spirits are down, few people are listening.

 

[Whaddapie]

There's a lot of truth in that piece. That WAS a highly encouraging performance, and but for for woeful finishing and that 'non-penalty', it would he yeilded the result it deserved. Honestly, we're one scuffed Maxi "shot" from creaming ourselves about a fantastic result.

If we can adopt that approach in our remaining games, it may yet be viewed as a turning point in this season, because if we play like that every time we travel, we'll win a lot more than we don't between now and late May.

 

[HC]

Yeah there's some sense in there but squiggs.

You can only take so much from defeat.

At least in those two victories we saw some semi clinical defending and finishing

 

[Whaddapie]

Agreed. But is it not fair to say that, had Maxi and/or 'Nando shown a cooler head, that we're saying the same thing about this match..?

If the only real difference between the respective performances are one or two shots, the performance itself was encouraging, if the result was not...

 

[TheBunnyman]

I think the comparisons to the Benitez and Houllier eras are silly and irrelevant, but yes, it was - by a long way - our best away performance under Hodgson. If he sends the team with that kind of positivity in future away games, we may actually (gasp) win a few of them.

 

[doctor_mac]

The Spurs game was a glorious defeat. Whilst I'd generally prefer an inglorious victory, there were many positives to be gleaned from that performance. It was, for instance, a much better performance than our woeful run out there last season.

 

[Mistadobalina]

I won't take any joy from losing football matches with Roy Hodgson in charge. I don't feel like we are on the right track to begin with. If you have faith in a manager it's much easier to say 'ah! But look at the great football we played, things are looking up!' Because they are not.

 

[Wizardry]

[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=43011.msg1226832#msg1226832 date=1291151802]
I think the comparisons to the Benitez and Houllier eras are silly and irrelevant, but yes, it was - by a long way - our best away performance under Hodgson. If he sends the team with that kind of positivity in future away games, we may actually (gasp) win a few of them.

[/quote]

Agree with this entirely Bunny even if I think your point was a little understated.

I said the same thing in another thread before reading this one; if Royd sends the team out to play like this away from home then we'll win far more than we lose. I hope he doesn't get cold feet and revert the way Rafa and GH did before him. He needs to take the same bluster and confidence to the next away game and the next..... and the next. No way on this earth that Torres could miss two one on one's with the keeper again;- it just wouldn't happen. I actually can't remember it happening with a Liverpool striker since Baros did it.

 

[Insignificance]

I been away with no access to nothing for the last week, hence I didnt see the game. But when I read that "we were one MAxi finish from creaming ourselves with a good result" it means that Roy Fucking Hodgson has managed to lower everyones expectation slowly but steadily. Normally a good result against spurs away would be expected, but now it would leave us creaming ourselves with it. I am disgusted.

 

[Mistadobalina]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=43011.msg1227249#msg1227249 date=1291217508]
I been away with no access to nothing for the last week, hence I didnt see the game. But when I read that "we were one MAxi finish from creaming ourselves with a good result" it means that Roy Fucking Hodgson has managed to lower everyones expectation slowly but steadily. Normally a good result against spurs away would be expected, but now it would leave us creaming ourselves with it. I am disgusted.
[/quote]

Don't feel disgusted! Just lower your expectations with the rest of us, go on, I've been doing it all week. Roy is right. I see that now! A point away to anyone is a blessing. Its clear to me now, I've been mis managing my expectations for years! Ahh!

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=43011.msg1226930#msg1226930 date=1291179482]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=43011.msg1226832#msg1226832 date=1291151802]
I think the comparisons to the Benitez and Houllier eras are silly and irrelevant, but yes, it was - by a long way - our best away performance under Hodgson. If he sends the team with that kind of positivity in future away games, we may actually (gasp) win a few of them.

[/quote]

Agree with this entirely Bunny even if I think your point was a little understated.

I said the same thing in another thread before reading this one; if Royd sends the team out to play like this away from home then we'll win far more than we lose. I hope he doesn't get cold feet and revert the way Rafa and GH did before him. He needs to take the same bluster and confidence to the next away game and the next..... and the next. No way on this earth that Torres could miss two one on one's with the keeper again;- it just wouldn't happen. I actually can't remember it happening with a Liverpool striker since Baros did it.
[/quote]

I've been saying this for a while but it's easier said than done as a few losses usually send managers back into their shell.

 

[Rosco]

It's not like we were unbeaten away before Sunday was it ?

 

[PaulGorst]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=43011.msg1227261#msg1227261 date=1291219136]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=43011.msg1226930#msg1226930 date=1291179482]
[quote author=TheBunnyman link=topic=43011.msg1226832#msg1226832 date=1291151802]
I think the comparisons to the Benitez and Houllier eras are silly and irrelevant, but yes, it was - by a long way - our best away performance under Hodgson. If he sends the team with that kind of positivity in future away games, we may actually (gasp) win a few of them.

[/quote]

Agree with this entirely Bunny even if I think your point was a little understated.

I said the same thing in another thread before reading this one; if Royd sends the team out to play like this away from home then we'll win far more than we lose. I hope he doesn't get cold feet and revert the way Rafa and GH did before him. He needs to take the same bluster and confidence to the next away game and the next..... and the next. No way on this earth that Torres could miss two one on one's with the keeper again;- it just wouldn't happen. I actually can't remember it happening with a Liverpool striker since Baros did it.
[/quote]

I've been saying this for a while but it's easier said than done as a few losses usually send managers back into their shell.
[/quote]

As much as old Woy is out of his depth at our club, I have faith that he won't revert-to-type after the Spurs defeat. I think this two up top thing might actually work if we get a striker in January. Who'dve thought it ay? Playing two upfront. Madness.

 

[Insignificance]

[quote author=Rosco link=topic=43011.msg1227263#msg1227263 date=1291219304]
It's not like we were unbeaten away before Sunday was it ?
[/quote]

No, I think we lost one early on..... Unlucky of course.

 

[Whaddapie]

[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=43011.msg1227249#msg1227249 date=1291217508]
I been away with no access to nothing for the last week, hence I didnt see the game. But when I read that "we were one MAxi finish from creaming ourselves with a good result" it means that Roy Fucking Hodgson has managed to lower everyones expectation slowly but steadily. Normally a good result against spurs away would be expected, but now it would leave us creaming ourselves with it. I am disgusted.
[/quote]

You acknowledge that you didn't see the game, but yet you rubbish the point...

I was referring specifically to the performance in that one game - It was, for the most part, our best one all season (and for much of last season too...), and my point was (and remains) that had Maxi or Torres buried one or more of the three glorious chances that they missed, we'd all be talking about how solid and impressive the performance was. We'd be talking about 'turned corners' and 'building from here'.

My expectations haven't fallen in an overall sense. We need to get back where Liverpool Football Club belongs. But you have to be realistic, on a game-to-game basis - Where we currently stand and the way things are going for us, had we held on and won, that WOULD have been a fantastic result.

 

[Asbo]

[quote author=Whaddapie link=topic=43011.msg1227617#msg1227617 date=1291299101]
[quote author=Insignificance link=topic=43011.msg1227249#msg1227249 date=1291217508]
I been away with no access to nothing for the last week, hence I didnt see the game. But when I read that "we were one MAxi finish from creaming ourselves with a good result" it means that Roy Fucking Hodgson has managed to lower everyones expectation slowly but steadily. Normally a good result against spurs away would be expected, but now it would leave us creaming ourselves with it. I am disgusted.
[/quote]

You acknowledge that you didn't see the game, but yet you rubbish the point...

I was referring specifically to the performance in that one game - It was, for the most part, our best one all season (and for much of last season too...), and my point was (and remains) that had Maxi or Torres buried one or more of the three glorious chances that they missed, we'd all be talking about how solid and impressive the performance was. We'd be talking about 'turned corners' and 'building from here'.

My expectations haven't fallen in an overall sense. We need to get back where Liverpool Football Club belongs. But you have to be realistic, on a game-to-game basis - Where we currently stand and the way things are going for us, had we held on and won, that WOULD have been a fantastic result.
[/quote]

Agree, and it would have given us such a lift too, because all the papers fawning over 'Arry Spurs and howe good they are playing, we would have leapfrogged them with a 2-0 win!

I enjoyed the pass and move footy too, it was refreshing to see.