WBA thoughts

[Spionkop69]

Ok this was the view from the stand.

We played efficiently without ever looking like we were getting out of 3rd gear. Again we created enough good chances to have won at least 2 games.

The left side was woeful in the first half. Downing and Enrique were not in tune with each other or those around them but Enrique grew as the game wore on but Downing didn't and for me I'd have subbed him for Bellamy.

Luis clearly has opposition defenders on the run when is running at them, never more so than when he's entering the box. He always has a trick and seems to be able to create good opportunities for himself and others. Henderson, Adam and Lucas were all efficient and energetic without looking very special but they did control most of the midfield battle until the last 15 mins when we decided to drop off 10-15 yards and let them have possession in the last third. That WBA didn't make anything of it was as much down to our efficient defending as their woeful lack of any cutting edge.

Skrtel and Agger played very well. Calm and assured and Skrtel has definitely picked up his game. Maybe that's down to Steve Clarke?

The Baggies fans need to get a copy of the rulebook and learn what is and what isn't a foul? Constant whining about the ref, when frankly I have no idea why he had to let the linesman give it!

Good finish in the end from big Andy but his first touch nearly screwed it up for him - and it was not that ace throughout the game but his presence grew after the goal.

WBA were poor but that was as much down to an assured but no frills performance from us. One concern for me with that line up is that with Adam and Lucas, they rarely get past the forwards and burst into the box. I'd like to see Henderson tried in the middle as alternative to Gerrard, he has the energy to get up and down and its his natural position.

Happy with the result naturally. If he plays that team or we play to that level against City or Chelsea though? Hmmmmmm. Nil points.

 

[the_khl]

Cheers Spion.

Happy to learn I'm not the only one thinking our left hand side looked shakier than our right. I thought Johnson has a good game whilst Enrique's first half was unconvincing. He stepped up though.

Think we played slightly better than you suggest mind and especially Lucas was very good in central bossing the game hitting a few killer passes as well.

 

[Ossi]

[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47343.msg1419105#msg1419105 date=1319914496]
Good game all around, bit disapointed that we didnt connect on any of those break aways in the second half.
Kudos to Skrtel and Agger who were very good together. Should start against Swansea aswell.

Happy for Carroll, took his goal well.
[/quote]

I thought he had squandered the chance with his rather poor first touch.

 

[the_khl]

In a brand new feature on Liverpoolfc.tv, we break down the Opta stats from our latest fixture and discover some interesting numbers relating to our 2-0 win at the Hawthorns...

Pretty interesting I'd say.

Glen Johnson had the most touches of any Liverpool player with 78. Charlie Adam was next on 76.

Daniel Agger won 90 per cent of his 'duels' - more than any of his teammates.

All our defenders made between 48 and 54 passes. Martin Skrtel was the most accurate with 91.7 per cent finding its target. The Slovak also played the highest percentage of long passes among his rearguard colleagues.

In midfield Lucas Leiva played the most passes with 59 and was also the most accurate on 81.4 per cent. 11.9 per cent of his efforts were long passes - again more than any of his midfield pals.

Up front Luis Suarez took the honours with an impressive accuracy of 91.1 per cent from 45 passes.

Suarez was also the assist king, creating five shooting opportunities for his teammates (two of which resulted in goals). Adam managed three and Carroll two.

Carroll, meanwhile, was the man who made Ben Foster earn his wages. Including his goal, the big man had seven shots, all from inside the box. Three were on target. Suarez had five shots, four of which were executed inside the penalty area. He failed to hit the target.

Agger won the most fouls from referee Lee Mason with three. Johnson and Carroll each drew a whistle three times for misjudged contact.

Overall Liverpool had 18 shots to West Brom's 13.

 

[the count]

[quote author=Ossi link=topic=47343.msg1420024#msg1420024 date=1320074244]
[quote author=Hansern link=topic=47343.msg1419105#msg1419105 date=1319914496]
Good game all around, bit disapointed that we didnt connect on any of those break aways in the second half.
Kudos to Skrtel and Agger who were very good together. Should start against Swansea aswell.

Happy for Carroll, took his goal well.
[/quote]

I thought he had squandered the chance with his rather poor first touch.
[/quote]I didn't thing that the first touch was necessarily awful, just that the keeper was out very quickly.
He done well to finish though, regardless of the quality of the first touch.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=47343.msg1419119#msg1419119 date=1319915347]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1419115#msg1419115 date=1319915173]
Perhaps a coincidence but am I the only one thinking Skrtel looked less out of position tonight compared to most performances alongside Carra? He was very good today.

Am I the only one thinking Johnson had a great game? Enrique as well but he gave wba their best chance first half mind.
[/quote]

once again, you are insane to think Johnson had a great game. He did nothing really positive attacking outside of the first 20 minutes and he was poor defensive as always. Standing off his man, poor tackling, giving up free kicks, and having to be protected constantly by Henderson and Lucas.
[/quote]

Really? REALLY?

He was better than Enrique overall as the latter gave away cheap possession in the first half leading to their best chances, he had the most touches bare none (see the stats above) which undelines he was well involved in the back as well as further upfield and he closed down well on the right. The thing is when some people think A about a player they'll never see anything but A despite him beeing a straight B.

Don't know it that makes any sense but trust me you're the insane one if you thought he was poor. Or blind. Or biased. Pick one.

 

[Buddha]

Fuck me, the exaggerated Johnson-bashing gets worse on here.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=Buddha link=topic=47343.msg1420043#msg1420043 date=1320075055]
Fuck me, the exaggerated Johnson-bashing gets worse on here.
[/quote]

I agree with this. I didn't think johnson was great at the weekend but the way some people are going on you'd think he gave away a couple of penalties and was tripping on his own feet.

 

[the count]

I don't think I have been party to any Johnson bashing in the past, but I thought he looked vulnerable on Saturday and on the evidence of this season's matches especially, I would prefer to have Kelly as our right back.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=the count link=topic=47343.msg1420048#msg1420048 date=1320075482]
I don't think I have been party to any Johnson bashing in the past, but I thought he looked vulnerable on Saturday and on the evidence of this season's matches especially, I would prefer to have Kelly as our right back.
[/quote]

if I was going to critisize anything about johnson it was he didn't seem to which runner to go with, the player with the ball or the overlapping player trying to drag him out of position. 'meh' as I said I was pleased he wasn't skinned and prevented wba from swinging a endless stream of crosses into our box. it should be obvserved he is back from two hamstring injuries and will take time to get flat out.

 

[the count]

[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47343.msg1420055#msg1420055 date=1320075743]
[quote author=the count link=topic=47343.msg1420048#msg1420048 date=1320075482]
I don't think I have been party to any Johnson bashing in the past, but I thought he looked vulnerable on Saturday and on the evidence of this season's matches especially, I would prefer to have Kelly as our right back.
[/quote]

if I was going to critisize anything about johnson it was he didn't seem to which runner to go with, the player with the ball or the overlapping player trying to drag him out of position. 'meh' as I said I was pleased he was skinned and prevented wba from swinging a endless stream of crosses into our box. it should be obvserved he is back from two hamstring injuries and will take time to get flat out.
[/quote]I seem to recall that he stood back from his opponent every time and allowed them to get in a cross, almost at will.
It just looked like he was liable to be skinned at any time.
Kelly is much better defensively in my opinion and I am not even going to begin debating the merits of attacking full backs with you of all people.

 

[spider-Neil]

[quote author=the count link=topic=47343.msg1420058#msg1420058 date=1320075937]
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=47343.msg1420055#msg1420055 date=1320075743]
[quote author=the count link=topic=47343.msg1420048#msg1420048 date=1320075482]
I don't think I have been party to any Johnson bashing in the past, but I thought he looked vulnerable on Saturday and on the evidence of this season's matches especially, I would prefer to have Kelly as our right back.
[/quote]

if I was going to critisize anything about johnson it was he didn't seem to which runner to go with, the player with the ball or the overlapping player trying to drag him out of position. 'meh' as I said I was pleased he was skinned and prevented wba from swinging a endless stream of crosses into our box. it should be obvserved he is back from two hamstring injuries and will take time to get flat out.
[/quote]I seem to recall that he stood back from his opponent every time and allowed them to get in a cross, almost at will.
It just looked like he was liable to be skinned at any time.
Kelly is much better defensively in my opinion and I am not even going to begin debating the merits of attacking full backs with you of all people.
[/quote]

again, I have to rewatch the game as I don't recall him getting skinned and I don't recall him letting wba cross. rose tinted glasses maybe. if we are going to go with henderson at right midfield then we need the overlap of the fullback. johnson or kelly doesn't bother me in this regard as they both attack competently enough.

 

[Skullflower]

i actually can't believe how good suarez is. if he learns to finish better he'll be a 'messi'.

 

[Spionkop69]

[quote author=Skullflower link=topic=47343.msg1420066#msg1420066 date=1320076688]
i actually can't believe how good suarez is. if he learns to finish better he'll be a 'messi'.
[/quote]

Nah, he's shit and over-rated because he hasn't scored the same as in the Eredivisie

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1420036#msg1420036 date=1320074850]
[quote author=Shelvey link=topic=47343.msg1419119#msg1419119 date=1319915347]
[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1419115#msg1419115 date=1319915173]
Perhaps a coincidence but am I the only one thinking Skrtel looked less out of position tonight compared to most performances alongside Carra? He was very good today.

Am I the only one thinking Johnson had a great game? Enrique as well but he gave wba their best chance first half mind.
[/quote]

once again, you are insane to think Johnson had a great game. He did nothing really positive attacking outside of the first 20 minutes and he was poor defensive as always. Standing off his man, poor tackling, giving up free kicks, and having to be protected constantly by Henderson and Lucas.
[/quote]

Really? REALLY?

He was better than Enrique overall as the latter gave away cheap possession in the first half leading to their best chances, he had the most touches bare none (see the stats above) which undelines he was well involved in the back as well as further upfield and he closed down well on the right. The thing is when some people think A about a player they'll never see anything but A despite him beeing a straight B.

Don't know it that makes any sense but trust me you're the insane one if you thought he was poor. Or blind. Or biased. Pick one.
[/quote]

[quote author=the count link=topic=47343.msg1420058#msg1420058 date=1320075937]I seem to recall that he stood back from his opponent every time and allowed them to get in a cross, almost at will.[/quote]

I can't believe you are talking about making a judgement about a player and being biased towards that opinion. HYPOCRITICAL much. He was poor defensively and serviceable attacking wise. I am very much willing to change my opinion if his performances change. As I said he was very good at LB performing at a higher standard defensively and actually being more efficient attacking. I'm not biased more people have agreed with me that he was poor than he was great like you say. So go take a mirror and have a hard look Kristian.

Enrique had a poor first half but he was much more effective attacking, still very strong defensively and rebounded finely in the second half. Plus his performances have allowed some leeway because he has generally been excellent.

 

[Red Astaire]

[quote author=Spionkop69 link=topic=47343.msg1419889#msg1419889 date=1320063828]
Ok this was the view from the stand.

We played efficiently without ever looking like we were getting out of 3rd gear. Again we created enough good chances to have won at least 2 games.

The left side was woeful in the first half. Downing and Enrique were not in tune with each other or those around them but Enrique grew as the game wore on but Downing didn't and for me I'd have subbed him for Bellamy.

Luis clearly has opposition defenders on the run when is running at them, never more so than when he's entering the box. He always has a trick and seems to be able to create good opportunities for himself and others. Henderson, Adam and Lucas were all efficient and energetic without looking very special but they did control most of the midfield battle until the last 15 mins when we decided to drop off 10-15 yards and let them have possession in the last third. That WBA didn't make anything of it was as much down to our efficient defending as their woeful lack of any cutting edge.

Skrtel and Agger played very well. Calm and assured and Skrtel has definitely picked up his game. Maybe that's down to Steve Clarke?

The Baggies fans need to get a copy of the rulebook and learn what is and what isn't a foul? Constant whining about the ref, when frankly I have no idea why he had to let the linesman give it!

Good finish in the end from big Andy but his first touch nearly screwed it up for him - and it was not that ace throughout the game but his presence grew after the goal.

WBA were poor but that was as much down to an assured but no frills performance from us. One concern for me with that line up is that with Adam and Lucas, they rarely get past the forwards and burst into the box. I'd like to see Henderson tried in the middle as alternative to Gerrard, he has the energy to get up and down and its his natural position.

Happy with the result naturally. If he plays that team or we play to that level against City or Chelsea though? Hmmmmmm. Nil points.
[/quote]

Yep this. - I was standing right next to Spion and PeterHauge and had a great time (Nice one fellas). Downing was pretty poor I thought. Shame as I do want him to do well and have been banging on to fellow reds how great he will become. He let me down on Saturday and was guilty of several poor touches and woeful passing/shooting. It's probably a bit dull to say but Suarez really was the best player on the pitch by a mile. Oh and I thought Carroll had one of his best games for us. Not just his goal but link up play as well.

Just my opinion...

 

[the_khl]

Look Shelvey, at least I admit to my bias eh? And Agger is the bestest ever mind.

Skysports gave Johnson higher rating than Enrique whom btw Got a lot of roses on here despite beeing the weakest link defensively.

Posters on other Liverpool forums has got Johnson in there top 3 and now stats tell's us he was the most ball-possessing Liverpool player.

Its a matter of opinion mostly you see so to pull the insane remark as you did seems a bit rich dont you think.

Especially as you're the one who's got it wrong.

Cheers.

 

[Gary25]

Not a fan of Johnson in the slightest but i thought he had a solid game Saturday.

 

[Sunny]

He's not long back from injury (again) to be fair

 

[Fabio]

Re: Re: WBA thoughts

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47343.msg1420119#msg1420119 date=1320087526]
He's not long back from injury (again) to be fair
[/quote]

I've never been a fan tbh

Didn't see the game on sat though

 

[Sunny]

He's always been defensively suss but good going forwards. Fitness always an issue but, if Clarke can turn Skrtel into a moderate defender you just never know. Still prefer Kelly though

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1420105#msg1420105 date=1320086200]
Look Shelvey, at least I admit to my bias eh? And Agger is the bestest ever mind.

Skysports gave Johnson higher rating than Enrique whom btw Got a lot of roses on here despite beeing the weakest link defensively.

Posters on other Liverpool forums has got Johnson in there top 3 and now stats tell's us he was the most ball-possessing Liverpool player.

Its a matter of opinion mostly you see so to pull the insane remark as you did seems a bit rich dont you think.

Especially as you're the one who's got it wrong.

Cheers.
[/quote]

I admit to my biases also; Shelvey is our second best midfielder and going to be a legend. I 'm not biased against Johnson like I said he was good at LB. He s just too defensively suspect on the right and he was against WBA. Just because the English media said the English RB was great doesn't change what I saw. He was good attacking for the first half but faded badly even though that is excusable. In general after the first 20 he was an outlet ball for the CBs and did very little right or wrong with it, he kept it simple. But the offensive prowess really isn't a problem. The defensive side of his game is, it was the problem in that game and always has been.

 

[Gary25]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47343.msg1420124#msg1420124 date=1320087913]
He's always been defensively suss but good going forwards. Fitness always an issue but, if Clarke can turn Skrtel into a moderate defender you just never know. Still prefer Kelly though
[/quote]

Clarke didn't turn Skrtel into a "moderate defender"(moderate ffs). Skrtel proved himself to be a top defender long before Clarke arrived.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47343.msg1420176#msg1420176 date=1320097820]
[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47343.msg1420124#msg1420124 date=1320087913]
He's always been defensively suss but good going forwards. Fitness always an issue but, if Clarke can turn Skrtel into a moderate defender you just never know. Still prefer Kelly though
[/quote]

Clarke didn't turn Skrtel into a "moderate defender"(moderate ffs). Skrtel proved himself to be a top defender long before Clarke arrived.
[/quote]

Er...no he wasn't at all. Too easy to dive in and gave away shit loads of silly free kicks to the point he was liability. Has a much more even tempered approach to the game now which has made him a much better player but still a fair way of the finished article, "FFS". He's not a 'top' defender in any shape or form currently

 

[Fabio]

Tbf with skrtel before Clarke, on his day he was brilliant and beasted some world class talents. Sadly, his top days were forgotten by more frequently average performances with stupid mistakes

 

[Sunny]

His beasty days were exceptions, not the rule. He was a constant liability and made people nervous every time he was on the ball. You could feel the apprehension in the ground when he was on the ball.

 

[mark1975]

[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47343.msg1420116#msg1420116 date=1320087433]
Not a fan of Johnson in the slightest but i thought he had a solid game Saturday.
[/quote]

That's pretty much how I feel about his performance, he played ok without really standing out.

Someone mentioned earlier about Enrique getting caught for the only mistake in the game at the back. Agger dived in early & got turned inside out for their chance where they fizzed it straight across goal, just wide. Not being critical, just saying like, Skrtel and Agger had a good game and Skrtel's positioning was better while appaz Agger reads the game so well and snuffs out the danger early anyway, just shows Super Dan is human after all.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47343.msg1420212#msg1420212 date=1320135352]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47343.msg1420116#msg1420116 date=1320087433]
Not a fan of Johnson in the slightest but i thought he had a solid game Saturday.
[/quote]

That's pretty much how I feel about his performance, he played ok without really standing out. Someone mentioned earlier about Enrique getting caught for the only mistake in the game at the back, while Agger reads the game exceptionally well, Agger got turned inside out for their chance where they fizzed it straight across goal, just wide. Not being critical, just saying like, Skrtel and Agger had a good game and Skrtel's positioning was better while appaz Agger reads the game so well and snuffs out the danger early, just shows Super Dan is human after all.
[/quote]

Stop being glib. Hes obviously not human. No human has bones made of the finest polo mints

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47343.msg1420212#msg1420212 date=1320135352]
[quote author=Gary25 link=topic=47343.msg1420116#msg1420116 date=1320087433]
Not a fan of Johnson in the slightest but i thought he had a solid game Saturday.
[/quote]

That's pretty much how I feel about his performance, he played ok without really standing out.

Someone mentioned earlier about Enrique getting caught for the only mistake in the game at the back. Agger dived in early & got turned inside out for their chance where they fizzed it straight across goal, just wide. Not being critical, just saying like, Skrtel and Agger had a good game and Skrtel's positioning was better while appaz Agger reads the game so well and snuffs out the danger early anyway, just shows Super Dan is human after all.
[/quote]
Skrtel's positioning was much better than normal and he had a very good game overall. I'm not saying Agger had a flawless game although I actually remember it like that *big fat cheesy smiley* but surely it was Enrique's sloppy passing that put everyone at the back under pressure for their big opportunity?

Mark mate you, me the Judge and others have had loads of discussions on here whether Agger is actually a good defender or whether he's got more style than any real defensive class. He won 90% of his challenges - most of all - against WBA I know but still - and we've kept quite a few clean sheets with him at the back.

I just hope we can soon agree he's a very good, and stylish, defender? He really is.

;D

*If he wasn't so bloody injury prone he'd be the new He-Man. Master of the Universe-like.

 

[mark1975]

Skrtel probably had an error or two in him, that wasn't really the point, Agger goes about his business quietly, he's never been a cut and thrust defender, but someone posted earlier (Neil?) about Enrique making the only mistake while waxing lyrical about Agger's reading of the game and Skrtel having an 'improved' game, he does make mistakes, they all do.

The back four at present, with Kelly in for Glen Jo, looks as solid as it's been for a while and they all compliment each other and can play a bit. For the record I thought Agger covered brilliantly at left back last week too, that's encouraging if we get a longterm injury to Enrique (not that that looks likely so far, given his form and his physique).