WBA thoughts

[the_khl]

[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=47343.msg1420284#msg1420284 date=1320144346]
Skrtel probably had an error or two in him, that wasn't really the point, Agger goes about his business quietly, he's never been a cut and thrust defender, but someone posted earlier (Neil?) about Enrique making the only mistake while waxing lyrical about Agger's reading of the game and Skrtel having an 'improved' game, he does make mistakes, they all do.

The back four at present, with Kelly in for Glen Jo, looks as solid as it's been for a while and they all compliment each other and can play a bit. For the record I thought Agger covered brilliantly at left back last week too, that's encouraging if we get a longterm injury to Enrique (not that that looks likely so far, given his form and his physique).
[/quote]
I'm quite sure Johnson will keep his place for now but on the other hand not so sure anymore Carra will walk straight in. Will be very interesting to see. Skrtel had the best game in a long time imo and will be more difficult to drop than normal. Can't see Agger beeing dropped unless he breaks something.

 

[Squiggles]

Saying Skrtel was a 'constant liability' is shocking and weird.

He's probably the most underrated player we have.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47343.msg1420427#msg1420427 date=1320164171]
Saying Skrtel was a 'constant liability' is shocking and weird.

He's probably the most underrated player we have.
[/quote]
I think a lot of posters on here has overrated him.

 

[Judge Jules]

No, really?

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47343.msg1420427#msg1420427 date=1320164171]
Saying Skrtel was a 'constant liability' is shocking and weird.

He's probably the most underrated player we have.
[/quote]

completely agree

i'd sooner sell agger than skrtel

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Judge Jules link=topic=47343.msg1420432#msg1420432 date=1320164712]
No, really?
[/quote]
Well, I could've said just the same to Squiggs post mate.

It's not that black and white of course but I believe he's been one of our weakest links in many games. This is not me championing Agger, as he's been injured most of those games anyways.

It's about him simply not holding the standard as a defender. His forward play and passing game is rather good. He's strong too and certainly not affraid of getting stuck in.

My main concern with him is his lack of positional sense, his rash challenges and poor aerial ability (much like Agger's mind). His nearing 30 and should've improved greatly by now in those areas but he simply hasn't. In my opinion.

This is why I've wanted us to buy a new CB for quite some time now as Agger sadly hasn't been reliable due to injuries.

His last game in particular was a big improvement but untill I've seen him take part in defense under great pressure I'm not yet convinced. Seems a good bloke and all and I'm frankly talking out from a footballing perspective.

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47343.msg1420437#msg1420437 date=1320164908]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47343.msg1420427#msg1420427 date=1320164171]
Saying Skrtel was a 'constant liability' is shocking and weird.

He's probably the most underrated player we have.
[/quote]

completely agree

i'd sooner sell agger than skrtel

[/quote]
See. This. Overrated.

Unless of course it's the 'injury' argument which in case makes some sense but only if you'd then buy one for the starting XI immediately.

Or do you think Skrtel is a better defender than Agger Fabs?

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=47343.msg1420427#msg1420427 date=1320164171]
Saying Skrtel was a 'constant liability' is shocking and weird.

He's probably the most underrated player we have.
[/quote]

It's not weird at all because it's true. What short memories some people have.

 

[Fabio]

for me KHL, its the injury record. I'm sorry but it is ludicrous the amount of times he's been out. He has the potential to be a great defender, but every time he gets his groove his back/leg/arm/neck/tonsils fall apart and he's back to square 1.

Its irritating and i'm fed up. We could make a bit of cash on him and i think we should.

Also, i think skrtel is a good defender who has a lot of brain farts. I think he knows how he wants to play and fucks up when he has carra commanding him towards his own goal and playing deeper. Hes not slow, he can burst forward if needed and he can head a ball. Granted its a 50p head but he CAN actually win things in the air.

I would really love to see skrtel and agger get a run out against a decent side personally, but i think it'd be a risk kenny wouldn't want to take.

 

[peterhague]

for some reason, i still have hope for Agger re his fitness. couldn't his last one (broken ribs, was it) be seen as a bit of an aberration, really? was it actualy anything to do with injury-proneness?

 

[the_khl]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47343.msg1420443#msg1420443 date=1320165835]
for me KHL, its the injury record. I'm sorry but it is ludicrous the amount of times he's been out. He has the potential to be a great defender, but every time he gets his groove his back/leg/arm/neck/tonsils fall apart and he's back to square 1.

Its irritating and i'm fed up. We could make a bit of cash on him and i think we should.

Also, i think skrtel is a good defender who has a lot of brain farts. I think he knows how he wants to play and fucks up when he has carra commanding him towards his own goal and playing deeper. Hes not slow, he can burst forward if needed and he can head a ball. Granted its a 50p head but he CAN actually win things in the air.

I would really love to see skrtel and agger get a run out against a decent side personally, but i think it'd be a risk kenny wouldn't want to take.
[/quote]
That's a fair argument I guess although he has recently turned 100 Prem games. That's something at least.

We'd then need to buy a new defender mind of highest class.

*And I'd be extremely gutted.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47343.msg1420443#msg1420443 date=1320165835]
for me KHL, its the injury record. I'm sorry but it is ludicrous the amount of times he's been out. He has the potential to be a great defender, but every time he gets his groove his back/leg/arm/neck/tonsils fall apart and he's back to square 1.

Its irritating and i'm fed up. We could make a bit of cash on him and i think we should.

Also, i think skrtel is a good defender who has a lot of brain farts. I think he knows how he wants to play and fucks up when he has carra commanding him towards his own goal and playing deeper. Hes not slow, he can burst forward if needed and he can head a ball. Granted its a 50p head but he CAN actually win things in the air.

I would really love to see skrtel and agger get a run out against a decent side personally, but i think it'd be a risk kenny wouldn't want to take.
[/quote]

I think Agger is the better football player and defender. His fitness record makes Darren Anderton look like a beacon of health though so it's always an issue but would love to see him stay fit till the end of the season, unlikely as that may be. I think the Skrtel brain fart analogy is quite apt because that's exactly what he was - a moderate defender who fucked up on occasion. Saying that, he has improved over the last 12 months and looks a much more composed player and doesn't crashing into players as often as he used to. Him and Agger should now be our starting line up I think the only issue being neither of them are what you would call a defensive organiser. Still, Pepe has a loud voice on him.

 

[Sunny]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1420445#msg1420445 date=1320166093]
That's a fair argument I guess although he has recently turned 100 Prem games. That's something at least.

We'd then need to buy a new defender mind of highest class.

*And I'd be extremely gutted.
[/quote]

Agger probably averages about 15/16 EPL games a season. Skrtel (who's had injury probs too) probably about 25/26 games. Had a full season last year though. I like Agger, he's a quality player - just a complete fairy

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=Sunny link=topic=47343.msg1420446#msg1420446 date=1320166363]
[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47343.msg1420443#msg1420443 date=1320165835]
for me KHL, its the injury record. I'm sorry but it is ludicrous the amount of times he's been out. He has the potential to be a great defender, but every time he gets his groove his back/leg/arm/neck/tonsils fall apart and he's back to square 1.

Its irritating and i'm fed up. We could make a bit of cash on him and i think we should.

Also, i think skrtel is a good defender who has a lot of brain farts. I think he knows how he wants to play and fucks up when he has carra commanding him towards his own goal and playing deeper. Hes not slow, he can burst forward if needed and he can head a ball. Granted its a 50p head but he CAN actually win things in the air.

I would really love to see skrtel and agger get a run out against a decent side personally, but i think it'd be a risk kenny wouldn't want to take.
[/quote]

I think Agger is the better football player and defender. His fitness record makes Darren Anderton look like a beacon of health though so it's always an issue but would love to see him stay fit till the end of the season, unlikely as that may be. I think the Skrtel brain fart analogy is quite apt because that's exactly what he was - a moderate defender who fucked up on occasion. Saying that, he has improved over the last 12 months and looks a much more composed player and doesn't crashing into players as often as he used to. Him and Agger should now be our starting line up I think the only issue being neither of them are what you would call a defensive organiser. Still, Pepe has a loud voice on him.
[/quote]

See this is my thinking, why do we need 2 defensive organisers? Pepe shouts, carra shouts, and they couyld be 2 conflicting messages to skrtel? Agger might just go "Fuck it i'm playing my game the way i play it" and thats why eh looks good, because he's his own boss. Sometimes he can be woefully out of position of back off too much but thats HIS mistake.
I think skrtel tries too hard to not make a mistake so he tries to listen to both pepe and carra. He's a starting slovakian international who only really make appearances for us when one of our CBs is injured. I don't blame him for trying to build a rapport with Carra or Pepe as they normally would be his guaranteed starting team mates (thanks to aggers polio). But the game at the weekend was one of the few times agger and skrtel have played together

now i didn't see the game so i can't make snap judgements, but did he look more composed and willing to play his own game?

 

[the_khl]

I'm not saying there isn't a point in there to be found but Agger is actually rather vocal. Not Carra-like but still he does a lot of talking on the pitch to teammates.

 

[Fabio]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1420458#msg1420458 date=1320168359]
I'm not saying there isn't a point in there to be found but Agger is actually rather vocal. Not Carra-like but still he does a lot of talking on the pitch to teammates.
[/quote]

Not to carra or pepe levels though. Hes not a marshaller in my humblest opinion.

 

[MaBigTip]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1420286#msg1420286 date=1320144481]
I'm quite sure Johnson will keep his place for now
no he won't, both players will be rotated to try and prevent themselves from their own injury proneness

Skrtel had the best game in a long time imo
or since Bolton
[/quote]

[quote author=KHL link=topic=47343.msg1420438#msg1420438 date=1320165211]
His nearing 30 and should've improved greatly by now in those areas but he simply hasn't.
he's 26 turning 27 in December, he hasn't hit his peak; he's got so many great attributes (he's rapid and an ox) and has improved tons. We could never get enough to warrant selling him and giving up on the time invested.
[/quote]

[quote author=peterhague link=topic=47343.msg1420444#msg1420444 date=1320166035]
for some reason, i still have hope for Agger re his fitness. couldn't his last one (broken ribs, was it) be seen as a bit of an aberration, really? was it actualy anything to do with injury-proneness?
he broke his rib falling to the ground trying to kick the ball; thats the definition of injury prone - great player mind
[/quote]

[quote author=Fabio link=topic=47343.msg1420449#msg1420449 date=1320166640]
now i didn't see the game so i can't make snap judgements, but did he look more composed and willing to play his own game?
yep he looked very comfortable out there, broke up play very well. He and Agger seemed to get on great and both have enough pace to play a similar game and make up for little mistakes.
[/quote]

 

[Wizardry]

Well, I've just watched it again so I'll offer a couple of observations for what they're worth;

• 
  [li]Skrtel and Agger were good together but Skrtel was the most impressive of the two. Fast, decisive and he looked to snuff out danger early.[/li]
  [li]Enrique still looks solid but not spectacular. I think his pace could be used more effectively but he's doing a job.[/li]
  [li]Johnson has attracted criticism from plenty of people but, after looking at it again I've got the same impression; he was very good. Not as tight as the CB's but he was very dangerous going forward and more so than Kelly generally appears. I'd take Kelly for defensive prowess on the right though not by a lot and Johnson for attacking..... again, not by a lot.[/li]
  [li]Adam and Lucas paired better than in the past - it was West Brom. I thought Adam was good but Lucas was much better; he dominated midfield, passed very well, tackled everything that moved, barely gave away a free and didn't stop running (that's an engine right there, Doc).[/li]
  [li]Downing badly needs a lift and I really do want to see Bellamy given a few runs; Henderson looked the best I've seen on the right - in fact close to the best I've seen him for us.[/li]
  [li]I'm trying not to get too hopeful but there were some really good signs there from Suarez and Andy. Suarez was, well, Suarez and I don't think I can add anything to what's been said. Carroll looked much better (he's clearly got some history with Olssen) and was obviously determined to link with Suarez and develop that partnership.
  [/li]
  

All that said I'm still not completely convinced of our CB partnership nor the promise of consistent goals from our strike partnership. Everything else looks good or manageable but these two areas would keep me awake if I was Kenny.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47343.msg1420616#msg1420616 date=1320221612]
Well, I've just watched it again so I'll offer a couple of observations for what they're worth;

• 
  [li]Skrtel and Agger were good together but Skrtel was the most impressive of the two. Fast, decisive and he looked to snuff out danger early.[/li]
  [li]Enrique still looks solid but not spectacular. I think his pace could be used more effectively but he's doing a job.[/li]
  [li]Johnson has attracted criticism from plenty of people but, after looking at it again I've got the same impression; he was very good. Not as tight as the CB's but he was very dangerous going forward and more so than Kelly generally appears. I'd take Kelly for defensive prowess on the right though not by a lot and Johnson for attacking..... again, not by a lot.[/li]
  [li]Adam and Lucas paired better than in the past - it was West Brom. I thought Adam was good but Lucas was much better; he dominated midfield, passed very well, tackled everything that moved, barely gave away a free and didn't stop running (that's an engine right there, Doc).[/li]
  [li]Downing badly needs a lift and I really do want to see Bellamy given a few runs; Henderson looked the best I've seen on the right - in fact close to the best I've seen him for us.[/li]
  [li]I'm trying not to get too hopeful but there were some really good signs there from Suarez and Andy. Suarez was, well, Suarez and I don't think I can add anything to what's been said. Carroll looked much better (he's clearly got some history with Olssen) and was obviously determined to link with Suarez and develop that partnership.
  [/li]
  

All that said I'm still not completely convinced of our CB partnership nor the promise of consistent goals from our strike partnership. Everything else looks good or manageable but these two areas would keep me awake if I was Kenny.
[/quote]

'Engine' or not Wiz, he clearly stopped running more than Adam. Who didn't stop more.

 

[Ryan]

[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47343.msg1420616#msg1420616 date=1320221612]
Well, I've just watched it again so I'll offer a couple of observations for what they're worth;

• 
  [li]Skrtel and Agger were good together but Skrtel was the most impressive of the two. Fast, decisive and he looked to snuff out danger early.[/li]
  [li]Enrique still looks solid but not spectacular. I think his pace could be used more effectively but he's doing a job.[/li]
  [li]Johnson has attracted criticism from plenty of people but, after looking at it again I've got the same impression; he was very good. Not as tight as the CB's but he was very dangerous going forward and more so than Kelly generally appears. I'd take Kelly for defensive prowess on the right though not by a lot and Johnson for attacking..... again, not by a lot.[/li]
  [li]Adam and Lucas paired better than in the past - it was West Brom. I thought Adam was good but Lucas was much better; he dominated midfield, passed very well, tackled everything that moved, barely gave away a free and didn't stop running (that's an engine right there, Doc).[/li]
  [li]Downing badly needs a lift and I really do want to see Bellamy given a few runs; Henderson looked the best I've seen on the right - in fact close to the best I've seen him for us.[/li]
  [li]I'm trying not to get too hopeful but there were some really good signs there from Suarez and Andy. Suarez was, well, Suarez and I don't think I can add anything to what's been said. Carroll looked much better (he's clearly got some history with Olssen) and was obviously determined to link with Suarez and develop that partnership.
  [/li]
  

All that said I'm still not completely convinced of our CB partnership nor the promise of consistent goals from our strike partnership. Everything else looks good or manageable but these two areas would keep me awake if I was Kenny.
[/quote]

Yup, agree with pretty much all of that.

 

[doctor_mac]

[quote author=Ryan link=topic=47343.msg1420923#msg1420923 date=1320262918]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=47343.msg1420616#msg1420616 date=1320221612]
Well, I've just watched it again so I'll offer a couple of observations for what they're worth;

• 
  [li]Skrtel and Agger were good together but Skrtel was the most impressive of the two. Fast, decisive and he looked to snuff out danger early.[/li]
  [li]Enrique still looks solid but not spectacular. I think his pace could be used more effectively but he's doing a job.[/li]
  [li]Johnson has attracted criticism from plenty of people but, after looking at it again I've got the same impression; he was very good. Not as tight as the CB's but he was very dangerous going forward and more so than Kelly generally appears. I'd take Kelly for defensive prowess on the right though not by a lot and Johnson for attacking..... again, not by a lot.[/li]
  [li]Adam and Lucas paired better than in the past - it was West Brom. I thought Adam was good but Lucas was much better; he dominated midfield, passed very well, tackled everything that moved, barely gave away a free and didn't stop running (that's an engine right there, Doc).[/li]
  [li]Downing badly needs a lift and I really do want to see Bellamy given a few runs; Henderson looked the best I've seen on the right - in fact close to the best I've seen him for us.[/li]
  [li]I'm trying not to get too hopeful but there were some really good signs there from Suarez and Andy. Suarez was, well, Suarez and I don't think I can add anything to what's been said. Carroll looked much better (he's clearly got some history with Olssen) and was obviously determined to link with Suarez and develop that partnership.
  [/li]
  

All that said I'm still not completely convinced of our CB partnership nor the promise of consistent goals from our strike partnership. Everything else looks good or manageable but these two areas would keep me awake if I was Kenny.
[/quote]

Yup, agree with pretty much all of that.
[/quote]

You and Wiz need to get a room. You love each other.