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VS Bolton

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In fairness, that's a bit hyperbolic. We're on course to become the new Villa, but we're not yet. Difference being that we still do have three world class players in our ranks in Reina, Gerrard and Suarez (and a new look solid defence). If we manage to put the three out on the pitch at the same time, we could (and could is the operative word) start looking like a top 4 side again. Having said that, the problem really is that Gerrard is on the wane, Suarez has off the pitch issues, and Reina could possibly want to leave soon. If we don't supplement the side with at least two world class players by the next two transfer windows, the new Villa tag is likely to stick.
 
I think next summer is make or break. We can't afford a repeat of last summer's fuck ups.

It's not just the worry of players leaving. With every passing year our squad gets older. We need to build a capable team now before we may as well just start from scratch.

We have Gerrard, Carra, Bellamy, Maxi, Aurelio and Kuyt in the 30's.

Next year Agger, Srktel, Johnson and Downing will be 28. Adam 27.

The only established squad players under the age of 25 next season will be Henderson, Kelly, errr Carroll and then you're looking at the likes of Shelvey and Coates who right now are on the fringes.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467277#msg1467277 date=1327089175]
In fairness, that's a bit hyperbolic. We're on course to become the new Villa, but we're not yet. Difference being that we still do have three world class players in our ranks in Reina, Gerrard and Suarez (and a new look solid defence). If we manage to put the three out on the pitch at the same time, we could (and could is the operative word) start looking like a top 4 side again. Having said that, the problem really is that Gerrard is on the wane, Suarez has off the pitch issues, and Reina could possibly want to leave soon. If we don't supplement the side with at least two world class players by the next two transfer windows, the new Villa tag is likely to stick.

[/quote]

It is a bit of an exaggeration, but that's what it feels like. We're plodding towards mid-table because we cannot score any goals.

Our lack of activity this window has been concerning, IMO.
 
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467289#msg1467289 date=1327090642]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467277#msg1467277 date=1327089175]
In fairness, that's a bit hyperbolic. We're on course to become the new Villa, but we're not yet. Difference being that we still do have three world class players in our ranks in Reina, Gerrard and Suarez (and a new look solid defence). If we manage to put the three out on the pitch at the same time, we could (and could is the operative word) start looking like a top 4 side again. Having said that, the problem really is that Gerrard is on the wane, Suarez has off the pitch issues, and Reina could possibly want to leave soon. If we don't supplement the side with at least two world class players by the next two transfer windows, the new Villa tag is likely to stick.

[/quote]

It is a bit of an exaggeration, but that's what it feels like. We're plodding towards mid-table because we cannot score any goals.

Our lack of activity this window has been concerning, IMO.
[/quote]

owners said they are not going to get short term fixes to long term problems.
 
[quote author=spider-neil link=topic=48362.msg1467295#msg1467295 date=1327093702]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467289#msg1467289 date=1327090642]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467277#msg1467277 date=1327089175]
In fairness, that's a bit hyperbolic. We're on course to become the new Villa, but we're not yet. Difference being that we still do have three world class players in our ranks in Reina, Gerrard and Suarez (and a new look solid defence). If we manage to put the three out on the pitch at the same time, we could (and could is the operative word) start looking like a top 4 side again. Having said that, the problem really is that Gerrard is on the wane, Suarez has off the pitch issues, and Reina could possibly want to leave soon. If we don't supplement the side with at least two world class players by the next two transfer windows, the new Villa tag is likely to stick.

[/quote]

It is a bit of an exaggeration, but that's what it feels like. We're plodding towards mid-table because we cannot score any goals.

Our lack of activity this window has been concerning, IMO.
[/quote]

owners said they are not going to get short term fixes to long term problems.
[/quote]

There are no long term problems. The only problems we have are our shit transfers we signed in the summer.
 
Bolton are wank. Very attack minded team please. Hopefully win the game and rest Gerrard and Bellamy with time to spare for the Man City game.
 
[quote author=keniget link=topic=48362.msg1467283#msg1467283 date=1327090039]
I think next summer is make or break. We can't afford a repeat of last summer's fuck ups.

It's not just the worry of players leaving. With every passing year our squad gets older. We need to build a capable team now before we may as well just start from scratch.

We have Gerrard, Carra, Bellamy, Maxi, Aurelio and Kuyt in the 30's.

Next year Agger, Srktel, Johnson and Downing will be 28. Adam 27.

The only established squad players under the age of 25 next season will be Henderson, Kelly, errr Carroll and then you're looking at the likes of Shelvey and Coates who right now are on the fringes.
[/quote]

Aye but Pacheco will be ready to peak like a motherfucker any day soon don't forget.
 
This team will beat Bolton

...............................................REINA...............................................
JOHNSON......................SKRTEL............AGGER......................ENRIQUE
................................HENDERSON............ADAM.................................
DOWNING.................................GERRARD.............................BELLAMY
............................................CARROLL..............................................

Every day of the week.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467273#msg1467273 date=1327088177]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467256#msg1467256 date=1327085864]
We're not under-performing though.

We've signed a load of average players and now we have a very average squad, who are performing averagely.

We're the new Aston Villa.
[/quote]

Absolutely.
[/quote]


That is just such mindless drivel it's spellbinding.

We've underperformed massively; a team that's consistently matched the mancs, city, chavs and Arse but sitting in 7th place......... and we're not underperforming against the rest of the league? Unbelievable drivel. Maybe if we'd only fluked one result against a top team in the last year - but we've done it against pretty much all of them for 12 months. Given some of the crap that get's posted on here it says a lot that this rubbish actually draws attention.
 
[quote author=Ryan link=topic=48362.msg1467546#msg1467546 date=1327152822]
Exactly Wiz. We've just been dead unlucky.
[/quote]

Damn it.

I need a new sarcasm metre after Ryan.


These things aren't cheap mate so give me some warning when you're coming on and I can switch it off. Fair? 8)
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48362.msg1467543#msg1467543 date=1327152519]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467273#msg1467273 date=1327088177]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467256#msg1467256 date=1327085864]
We're not under-performing though.

We've signed a load of average players and now we have a very average squad, who are performing averagely.

We're the new Aston Villa.
[/quote]

Absolutely.
[/quote]


That is just such mindless drivel it's spellbinding.

We've underperformed massively; a team that's consistently matched the mancs, city, chavs and Arse but sitting in 7th place......... and we're not underperforming against the rest of the league? Unbelievable drivel. Maybe if we'd only fluked one result against a top team in the last year - but we've done it against pretty much all of them for 12 months. Given some of the crap that get's posted on here it says a lot that this rubbish actually draws attention.
[/quote]

Which part? The new Villa? Read mine and Squiggs' posts at the top of the page.

If you're talking about underperforming, I can't think of a single player who's underperformed. We're a side stocked with mid-table talent in midfield and attack, who're performingly consistently at the level of their talent. The two world class players we have have never been on the pitch at the same time together; and the few other players who're not as talentless as the rest (Maxi, Bellamy and Shelvey) don't get as much playing time as the mid-table plodders.

Had the facts above been a little different, I might have agreed about the underperformance. Given that we consistently roll out with the Adams and the Downings, I don't see how we can complain about underperformance.
 
That's ridiculous really. We might have signed some average Joe's, but Downing and Carroll were both performing alot better at their previous clubs than how they are for us. As a side we've shown we are capable of holding our own, particularly in the big games, we've also lacked Gerrard and Suarez for large chunks of the season, show me a side that wouldn't miss their two best players.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467582#msg1467582 date=1327157141]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48362.msg1467543#msg1467543 date=1327152519]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467273#msg1467273 date=1327088177]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467256#msg1467256 date=1327085864]
We're not under-performing though.

We've signed a load of average players and now we have a very average squad, who are performing averagely.

We're the new Aston Villa.
[/quote]

Absolutely.
[/quote]


That is just such mindless drivel it's spellbinding.

We've underperformed massively; a team that's consistently matched the mancs, city, chavs and Arse but sitting in 7th place......... and we're not underperforming against the rest of the league? Unbelievable drivel. Maybe if we'd only fluked one result against a top team in the last year - but we've done it against pretty much all of them for 12 months. Given some of the crap that get's posted on here it says a lot that this rubbish actually draws attention.
[/quote]

Which part? The new Villa? Read mine and Squiggs' posts at the top of the page.

If you're talking about underperforming, I can't think of a single player who's underperformed. We're a side stocked with mid-table talent in midfield and attack, who're performingly consistently at the level of their talent. The two world class players we have have never been on the pitch at the same time together; and the few other players who're not as talentless as the rest (Maxi, Bellamy and Shelvey) don't get as much playing time as the mid-table plodders.

Had the facts above been a little different, I might have agreed about the underperformance. Given that we consistently roll out with the Adams and the Downings, I don't see how we can complain about underperformance.
[/quote]

I got about as far as the second sentence and fell asleep. By that stage you'd used the word underperformed twice and had my doubts it was going carry anything new.

Here's how it works. By definition the 7th best team should beat teams ranked 8 through 20 and get beat by teams 1 through 6. That's the text book definition. Real world, of course, is slightly different whereby team 7 will have the odd poor performance against a lower team and, on occasion, get a better than expected result against one of the teams above. That's real world. An underperforming team would be one that either beats or outplays all teams ranked 1 to 6 but can't drag itself above 7th. An underperforming team would be one which is the 2nd team in the league during the second half of the season, invests 100m into the team and then can't manage to drag itself into the top 6 let alone the top 2.

Stop me if you can see where any of this applies to your currently nominated "non-underperforming" team.
 
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467582#msg1467582 date=1327157141]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48362.msg1467543#msg1467543 date=1327152519]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467273#msg1467273 date=1327088177]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467256#msg1467256 date=1327085864]
We're not under-performing though.

We've signed a load of average players and now we have a very average squad, who are performing averagely.

We're the new Aston Villa.
[/quote]

Absolutely.
[/quote]


That is just such mindless drivel it's spellbinding.

We've underperformed massively; a team that's consistently matched the mancs, city, chavs and Arse but sitting in 7th place......... and we're not underperforming against the rest of the league? Unbelievable drivel. Maybe if we'd only fluked one result against a top team in the last year - but we've done it against pretty much all of them for 12 months. Given some of the crap that get's posted on here it says a lot that this rubbish actually draws attention.
[/quote]

Which part? The new Villa? Read mine and Squiggs' posts at the top of the page.

If you're talking about underperforming, I can't think of a single player who's underperformed. We're a side stocked with mid-table talent in midfield and attack, who're performingly consistently at the level of their talent. The two world class players we have have never been on the pitch at the same time together; and the few other players who're not as talentless as the rest (Maxi, Bellamy and Shelvey) don't get as much playing time as the mid-table plodders.

Had the facts above been a little different, I might have agreed about the underperformance. Given that we consistently roll out with the Adams and the Downings, I don't see how we can complain about underperformance.
[/quote]

That's an uncharacteristically hyperbolic post. I think you're allowing your disappointment to get in the way of your judgement. There's no doubt that we've messed up in the transfer market, but there's also no doubt that some of our more expensive buys have underperformed significantly. They'll never be good enough, but they could still be a lot better.
 
Downing, Adam, Henderson, Carroll, Spearing - are you seriously telling me any of them are 'underperforming'. They're mid-table talents playing at their level.

Downing's playing at the level he's played all his career - average.

Adam's playing at the level he showed at Blackpool last season, or he would have ever shown at Rangers - average to good.

Spearing's a mid-table talent.

Henderson started his career at a mid-table club. He 'could' become better, but right now looks like a mid-table player.

Carroll had six months of performing at the top level. Hardly an affirmation of what his 'level' really is. Right now, he looks like a Championship player, and is probably underperforming, but can you seriously tell me that he's anything more than a mid-table talent.

Add to this bunch:

Kuyt - who's looking well past it, and nowhere near a player who should be playing for a top 4 side

Lucas - who's probably one player who overperformed this season but is someone who I can never categorise as top class.

Those alongwith Suarez are the players who've started the bulk of our games in midfield and attack. Look at that and tell me that 6th is not an accurate reflection of where we stand. It's just about right.

I would have agreed with underperformance had Gerrard and Suarez been available throughout, and had Maxi, Shelvey, and Bellamy played the minutes Downing, Henderson and Carroll have.
 
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48362.msg1467615#msg1467615 date=1327160819]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467582#msg1467582 date=1327157141]
[quote author=Wizardry link=topic=48362.msg1467543#msg1467543 date=1327152519]
[quote author=dmishra link=topic=48362.msg1467273#msg1467273 date=1327088177]
[quote author=Squiggles link=topic=48362.msg1467256#msg1467256 date=1327085864]
We're not under-performing though.

We've signed a load of average players and now we have a very average squad, who are performing averagely.

We're the new Aston Villa.
[/quote]

Absolutely.
[/quote]


That is just such mindless drivel it's spellbinding.

We've underperformed massively; a team that's consistently matched the mancs, city, chavs and Arse but sitting in 7th place......... and we're not underperforming against the rest of the league? Unbelievable drivel. Maybe if we'd only fluked one result against a top team in the last year - but we've done it against pretty much all of them for 12 months. Given some of the crap that get's posted on here it says a lot that this rubbish actually draws attention.
[/quote]

Which part? The new Villa? Read mine and Squiggs' posts at the top of the page.

If you're talking about underperforming, I can't think of a single player who's underperformed. We're a side stocked with mid-table talent in midfield and attack, who're performingly consistently at the level of their talent. The two world class players we have have never been on the pitch at the same time together; and the few other players who're not as talentless as the rest (Maxi, Bellamy and Shelvey) don't get as much playing time as the mid-table plodders.

Had the facts above been a little different, I might have agreed about the underperformance. Given that we consistently roll out with the Adams and the Downings, I don't see how we can complain about underperformance.
[/quote]

I got about as far as the second sentence and fell asleep. By that stage you'd used the word underperformed twice and had my doubts it was going carry anything new.

Here's how it works. By definition the 7th best team should beat teams ranked 8 through 20 and get beat by teams 1 through 6. That's the text book definition. Real world, of course, is slightly different whereby team 7 will have the odd poor performance against a lower team and, on occasion, get a better than expected result against one of the teams above. That's real world. An underperforming team would be one that either beats or outplays all teams ranked 1 to 6 but can't drag itself above 7th. An underperforming team would be one which is the 2nd team in the league during the second half of the season, invests 100m into the team and then can't manage to drag itself into the top 6 let alone the top 2.

Stop me if you can see where any of this applies to your currently nominated "non-underperforming" team.
[/quote]

Really? Let me simplify it for you - you look at the players you roll out with every week, and see if your position in the league table is an adequate reflection of where you should be with that crop of players. If it is, your side isn't underperforming.

See if that helps you determine whether we've been 'underperforming' or not.

What a pointless debate on semantics really. We're a mid-table side currently, and we will be as long as we roll out with the same set of players we've been rolling out with so far. Deal with it.
 
So we're a mid table side who are currently 7th and 6pts off 4th with a game to play.

Don't want to get involved in the semantics like, just making sure I know where we're at and make sure I 'deal with it' properly, though my maths is pretty sharp like.
 
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48362.msg1467626#msg1467626 date=1327162180]
So we're a mid table side who are currently 7th and 6pts off 4th with a game to play.

Don't want to get involved in the semantics like, just making sure I know where we're at and make sure I 'deal with it' properly, though my maths is pretty sharp like.
[/quote]
09/10: 7th
10/11: 6th
11/12 after 21 games: 7th

Not sure what it means to "be" a mid table side, but we have been performing like one for 2.7 seasons.
 
[quote author=iseered link=topic=48362.msg1467636#msg1467636 date=1327163211]
[quote author=mark1975 link=topic=48362.msg1467626#msg1467626 date=1327162180]
So we're a mid table side who are currently 7th and 6pts off 4th with a game to play.

Don't want to get involved in the semantics like, just making sure I know where we're at and make sure I 'deal with it' properly, though my maths is pretty sharp like.
[/quote]
09/10: 7th
10/11: 6th
11/12 after 21 games: 7th

Not sure what it means to "be" a mid table side, but we have been performing like one for 2.7 seasons.
[/quote]

I don't want to be a pedant, but 6th and 7th isn't midtable. It's not good enough, but considering Mish seems hell bent on posting pointless drivel, I thought I'd join in.
 
Feel free. I like to keep things simple so I divide the league in three parts: Top 4, mid table, LOL. That is my definition, and I am sure you have yours, but I don't think there is an official definition of "mid table" anywhere.
 
It is a bit like class definitions really. You got your upper, middle and working. Some people like to get fancy and talk about upper and lower middle etc, but in my book if you are not top or bottom, then you are middle.
 
Re: Re: VS Bolton

[quote author=LITTLE REDZ link=topic=48362.msg1#msg1 date=1327163984]
Team reina,Johnson , agger , skrtel, enrique, Stevie, Adams, henderson ,maxi , Bellamy and carroll
[/quote]
No Downing? I thought he was the bees knees.
 
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