The perception of Rafa (bring popcorn)
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He's still got a shit goatee.
Think a lot of those remarks were born out of frustration of the other end of the spectrum. I know most of my snide remarks were more at posters who supported him , rather than the man himself.
He deserves credit, but people seem to gloss over his last few transfer windows when he spectacularly fell on his face. Either take the man as a whole, or at least acknowledge that he let himself and us down at the end. I was merely trying to redress the balance.
Its never going to be agreed on however
Maybe you should rethink those last few sentences, given you recently undermined everything Houllier achieved, including him finishing second. And "resources available"? You make it sound like he was on a shoestring, in the season he nearly won the title his signings had more or less no bearing on the outcome, he spunked away millions on transfers in the last couple of years, regardless of your age old net spend bollocks point, THEY WERE BAD BUYS.
I think the point is that, it doesn't redress the balance by going so far over the other side. You do it by actually saying something balanced. Not that you're the biggest culprit of it.
But balanced viewpoints generally stoke the positivity side. I've tried it, and all you get is "you agree then", when I DONT agree, I'm just trying to find a middle ground. Sometimes playing devils advocate is the only way to get a point across
Because?
It's 'cos when you find that middle ground, you actually are just agreeing with the supposed 'RCDNWers'.
We don't really have anyone on this site who sees the man as perfect.
Because then Peter gets to LOL in a smug knowing fashion.
Unfortunately for him his understanding of the situation doesn't match his arrogance.
Not valid? You're the one who mentioned resources.
I refer everyone back to the thread title: Other fans' perception of Rafa. That's all. Nothing about him as our manager. Nothing to do with love him or hate him arguments.
1. I didn't undermine Houllier. I criticised him. It's different.
2. I think you're referring to me stating the FACT that he missed most of that 01/02 season. I also balanced it by stating my belief that Houllier deserves more credit than his record suggests because IMO his illness played a big part in the subsequent poor seasons.
3. I really don't know how you've managed to find intrigue in the words 'resources available'!! I think that suggests paranoia.
4. I can't say I'm surprised to see this latest spasm against the net spend argument. You've always seemed particularly hostile to it, even when seeming to accept it. But it's been explained time after time why it's the better way of assessing spending. To throw it back (actually, hardly 'back', since I didn't even invoke it!!) looks desperate.
The subject of the thread is other fans' perception of Rafa. If we'd stayed on topic you wouldn't have to tear your hair out!
Suggests paranoia? I didn't find intrigue in there, you've exercised this "point" a thousand times, that his net spend some how equates to him having his hands tied and not spending the money that would have enabled him to compete. Have a look at who he bought over the last four years - of course it's relevant, he purchased enough players at a cost that was enough to challenge.
And it's hardly paranoia when it repeatedly plays a major part of your defense of him, it's not desperate, it's a reaction to you exaggerating his abilities, and any obstacles that were apparently put in his way.
The net spending or spending for that matter is interesting in terms of Rafa selling 23 players again of all the players he bought himself during his tenure.
He signed some very good players but also some horrendos crappy ones aswell. His free transfers were particulary poor, and as I've said countless of times his last 4 transfer windows were a disaster.
The chopping and changing turned him into his own worst enemy.
A very good manager who really took this club to the European top and nealy won us the legue. But when he left we were stuck with a bloated wage bill, a team lacking in quality depth and chopped and changed us away from a top team.
He signed some very good players but also some horrendos crappy ones aswell. His free transfers were particulary poor, and as I've said countless of times his last 4 transfer windows were a disaster.
The chopping and changing turned him into his own worst enemy.
A very good manager who really took this club to the European top and nealy won us the legue. But when he left we were stuck with a bloated wage bill, a team lacking in quality depth and chopped and changed us away from a top team.
Hee Hee this thread makes me laugh lots. Back to the topic - I think most non LFC fans would have at least a grudging respect for Rafa. How could they not? I think he has achieved a lot within the game that can't be ignored. His management of the Chavs in full view of the distain of the most moronic 'fans' in football has been very good. He has been quietly efficient but maintaining his dignity along the way. Of course they all want Maureen back but there is no denying Rafa has done a good job.
But we've been over and over this babe, and honestly, babe, I think we're so whatever right now.
I don't think he had enough (NET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) to compete any better than he did. You do.
I'm like enough.
I agree that the perception of Benitez is worse than the reality, but he only has himself to blame. The last years of Benitez were poor and the Inter Milan job was a terrible job to take on at that time. People have short memories.
The idea that he isn't good enough for Newcastle is madness.
The idea that he isn't good enough for Newcastle is madness.
Sky have a huge influence and they're all pervasive.
If they decide to take against someone (for whatever reason) then everybody else joins in e.g Benitez, Suarez etc etc
Fans of other clubs make up their minds based on Sky broadcasts and so have a low opinion. Sky have a low opinion because Benitez is difficult to talk to and Suarez doesn't talk at all; they have to fill up time so go negative.
I doubt anyone knows Benitez had a 56% win rate (higher than all other Managers since Dalglish's first term) or that Suarez has over 30 goals this season so they're ill informed.
No real mystery, Benitez needs to be more open and Suarez needs to stop doing stupid stuff. Sky will then move on to some other poor sod.
If they decide to take against someone (for whatever reason) then everybody else joins in e.g Benitez, Suarez etc etc
Fans of other clubs make up their minds based on Sky broadcasts and so have a low opinion. Sky have a low opinion because Benitez is difficult to talk to and Suarez doesn't talk at all; they have to fill up time so go negative.
I doubt anyone knows Benitez had a 56% win rate (higher than all other Managers since Dalglish's first term) or that Suarez has over 30 goals this season so they're ill informed.
No real mystery, Benitez needs to be more open and Suarez needs to stop doing stupid stuff. Sky will then move on to some other poor sod.
The last year's of Benitez were poor?
Okay his last year finishing 7th and getting to the EL semis andonly qualifying for the EL was poor.
But the year before that we finished 2nd, the year before that we got the CL semisand qualified for Europe in 4th, which was our lowest place in 3 years FFS.
Another trophy and CL qualification.
Guess that's another trophy and team he's had nothing to do with.
I reckon he'll be able to get another job.
Guess that's another trophy and team he's had nothing to do with.
I reckon he'll be able to get another job.
Yer'see, who's ever said that his ability to win European trophies is debatable?
No one has, his ability to sustain and build a domestic challenging team is more than questionable, as are many other aspects of his managerial skills.
He won the Europa Cup with a talented side, it's not brought anything new to the table has it? We all know how good he is in knock out competition in Europe. Gloat by all means, don't exaggerate people's misgivings.
I think they did better in the League than they did last year as well.
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